Does such a thing exist - the after market exhaust without compromise.

Flytvr · April 17, 2018

There seem to be lots of exhaust threads at the moment, and this got me thinking.

I've had the pleasure of hearing many different after market F exhausts. It strikes me that none of them are perfect - they come with compromises, the largest being drone / resonance somewhere in the rev range.

So, is there an after market exhaust that doesn't suffer from drone / resonance? Is it possible? Maybe Lexus did it right with the stock exhaust.

NemesisUK · April 17, 2018

I reckon Lexus got it right, IMHO of course.

Other than switched valve exhausts they all shout "boy racer"!

Coming from AMG, where dropping a cog and blatting past someone, got one labelled a boy racer I'm happy with the anonymity ...

Linas.P · April 17, 2018

I start from saying that there are definitely some aggressive stock exhaust... without compromises, except obviously being loud and aggressive. That said - I believe "aftermarket" exhaust without compromises are possible and very likely exist. The problem with aftermarket vs. factory is obviously that aftermarket companies are trying to match all car models with one system and it is simply impossible to make "one size fits all", on the other had manufacturers are only making exhaust for a single car, so they can adjust the exhaust just right. As it happened with most Lexus F-cars.. it seems Lexus has decided that more subtle exhaust is enough. I am sure they could have made it louder and without "side-effects" if they wanted to.

Back to original questions - I tend to believe it is possible to build aftermarket exhaust without side effects, but that won't be off the shelf, bolt on thing - it would need to be adjusted based on trial and error, and likely some real science. My point - I believe most of reasonable quality aftermarket exhaust can be adjusted during fitting to eliminate or at least minimise the side-effects, however rarely anyone have weeks of garage time (and piles of money) available to fine tune the systems.

FTBBCVoodoo · April 17, 2018

A different type of F car but a friend of mine used to have a Ferrari 458 with a Tubi Style exhaust. If ever there was a perfect engine note that must have been it.

A colleague also had a SuperSprint fitted to a Maserati GranTurismo. That sounded stunning as well although it always sounded like it was going faster than it actually was.

It's a shame that Milltek don't make exhausts for the F cars as they generally offer resonated and non-resonated exhausts depending on customer needs. I have never heard a bad one. I used to have a full resonated Milltek on my old 350z and it sounded gorgeous but you couldn't really hear it from inside the car :-( My old boss has a non resonated Milltek fitted to his Audi S5 and it sounds like a V8 should :-)

I also believe that Milltek work out the perfect back pressure for the exhausts before working on the sound so there is some science behind it.

I did a fair amount of research before choosing the German Fox Exhaust route and it's a bit different. I will post some vids/clips when my German Jungen Rennfahrer exhaust arrives and gets fitted :-)

All comes down to personal preference but I would take any exhaust note over a Tesla's :-)

DAW · April 17, 2018

Akrapovic have had their exhausts fitted as standard by some manufacturers.

Off on a bit of a tangent - my experience of after market wheels was that they were generally far higher quality than those the same wheel manufacturer might supply to car manufacturers.

Similarly I don’t see why a specialist exhaust manufacturer couldn’t develope a better tuned & optimised exhaust (at a cost).😉

FTBBCVoodoo · April 17, 2018

1 minute ago, DAW said:

Akrapovic have had their exhausts fitted as standard by some manufacturers.

Off on a bit of a tangent - my experience of after market wheels was that they were generally far higher quality than those the same wheel manufacturer might supply to car manufacturers.

Similarly I don’t see why a specialist exhaust manufacturer couldn’t develope a better tuned & optimised exhaust (at a cost).😉

Akrapovic exhausts are incredible but their cost model is crazy.

They use (at least they did) the same cost model as when they only made bike exhausts. The exhaust would always cost 10% of what the bikes retail price was.

They transferred the same cost model to cars.... So for an RCF you would be looking at around 5k :-(

emjay82 · April 18, 2018

It must be possible to develop no drone/resonance through enough research and testing/tuning. The latter being the most key IMO. I have recently had a PPE dual 'switchable' exhaust (will do a full review when I've found some free time 😉) fitted to my ISF. With the valves closed the exhaust remains largely stock in its characteristics but adds a subtle 'exotic note' to fill in at the lower revs from 1500 rpm until the already addict intake noise kicks in at 3500/4000 rpm upwards. Zero drone. The valved system has always been a must for me for the very reason that if it gets too much or annoying (especially as my car is a daily driver), I have the option to turn the bloody thing off 😂 😂. I've spent alot more time with the valves closed than open (which is pretty savage and to a degree unrefined but enjoyable in the right environment/road).

Back on topic, I believe it is possible but it is curious why so many exhausts are developed/sold which suffer with drone/resonance 🤔

April 18, 2018

8 hours ago, FTBBCVoodoo said:

I also believe that Milltek work out the perfect back pressure for the exhausts before working on the sound so there is some science behind it.

As little as possible while maintaining velocity to scavenge the cylinder. Back pressure is a negative thing not positive, yet some has to exist due to the diameter of the pipe to keep the velocity. If you remove all the back pressure with a huge pipe you can also reduce the flow and the gas won't leave the cylinder fast enough. So like anything else, it's a compromise.

Opening the exhaust valve is like opening the lid on a pressure vessel, high pressure moves to low pressure. You don't really want the piston to have to pump it out as that's wasting power (huge pipe situation) Use the design of the exhaust to suck it out for free.

But by the time you get back to the silencers.....unless they are very restrictive.....which on a resonated system they shouldn't be too bad it won't affect performance much at all. I've noticed it a bit freer revving at the top end now. I wouldn't claim any power gain. Most of above applies to headers & mid pipe, especially when they merge from multi cylinders (a compromise over having ideally 8 exhausts).

We did ask Miltek - not interested in doing a Lexus.

Stuno1 · April 18, 2018

I think there are many that are perfect depending on people’s specifications. Having owned cars with and without valved exhausts that is a must for me. Fundamentally it eliminates any hint of drone on motorways while also offering abusive loudness!

Stazza80 · April 18, 2018

22 hours ago, FTBBCVoodoo said:
A different type of F car but a friend of mine used to have a Ferrari 458 with a Tubi Style exhaust. If ever there was a perfect engine note that must have been it.

A colleague also had a SuperSprint fitted to a Maserati GranTurismo. That sounded stunning as well although it always sounded like it was going faster than it actually was.

It's a shame that Milltek don't make exhausts for the F cars as they generally offer resonated and non-resonated exhausts depending on customer needs. I have never heard a bad one. I used to have a full resonated Milltek on my old 350z and it sounded gorgeous but you couldn't really hear it from inside the car :-( My old boss has a non resonated Milltek fitted to his Audi S5 and it sounds like a V8 should :-)

I also believe that Milltek work out the perfect back pressure for the exhausts before working on the sound so there is some science behind it.

I did a fair amount of research before choosing the German Fox Exhaust route and it's a bit different. I will post some vids/clips when my German Jungen Rennfahrer exhaust arrives and gets fitted :-)

All comes down to personal preference but I would take any exhaust note over a Tesla's :-)
 

Very interested to see what you think of the Fox exhaust. I’ve been looking at this option myself but can find very little info/vids. Is it the back box you have? E.g. this https://www.dcperformance.co.uk/cheap/852179/lexus/fox-exhaust-backboxes/le011044-292.html

FTBBCVoodoo · April 18, 2018

1 hour ago, Stazza80 said:

Very interested to see what you think of the Fox exhaust. I’ve been looking at this option myself but can find very little info/vids. Is it the back box you have? E.g. this https://www.dcperformance.co.uk/cheap/852179/lexus/fox-exhaust-backboxes/le011044-292.html

Yep. Although I contacted Fox direct to order mine as I wanted to see what other tip options they were besides the 2 offerings from dc.

Emailed them 1st off and response times were good. Was quite specific that I wanted the quad round 90mm Type 25 slash cut tips in black which bumped up the price but managed to get 10% off exhaust total + free shipping to UK. If you just wanted the standard silver setup then probably cheaper to go via dc perfromance.

Did some digging around background of company and they appear to also make the exhausts for some Mercedes tuners in Germany (Carlsson and Piecha) so appear to be a decent outfit.

Also their website allows a 360 tour of their manufacturing plant. All looks very professional.... and German ;-)

April 19, 2018

Both fox (Germany) and magnaflow (us) look very well made.

It's the sound inside the car that is very hard to find info about.

The fox will likely be TUV approved which may have some noise limit.... I don't know. Can't find out.

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C.B · April 20, 2018

Up until this point mainly from reading this forum I have had the impression the Hayward and Scott exhaust was without compromise. Sounds great, well made, looks OEM for those who dont like the idea of the fake tailpipes and is available with and without X pipe depending on your volume preference. The only real issue being the cost.

What do people feel the compromise is with it?

Big Rat · April 20, 2018

No such thing as perfection, I want quality safe in the knowledge that someone has done a decent amount of R&D and testing and subsequently produces a quality product that does MOST of what I want.

And in my Quicksilver believe I have that, and with a bit of Rat negotiations I thought £1690.00 all in was a fair price.

🐀

Stuno1 · April 20, 2018

3 hours ago, C.B said:

Up until this point mainly from reading this forum I have had the impression the Hayward and Scott exhaust was without compromise. Sounds great, well made, looks OEM for those who dont like the idea of the fake tailpipes and is available with and without X pipe depending on your volume preference. The only real issue being the cost.

What do people feel the compromise is with it?

I don’t think here is a compromise personally if you you beget s valve fitted if you need stealth mode.

Stuno1 · April 20, 2018

2 hours ago, Big Rat said:

No such thing as perfection, I want quality safe in the knowledge that someone has done a decent amount of R&D and testing and subsequently produces a quality product that does MOST of what I want.

And in my Quicksilver believe I have that, and with a bit of Rat negotiations I thought £1690.00 all in was a fair price.

🐀

It all depends what folk want. If it was a full system including pre cat delete that needed lots of resonance testing, decibel testing etc I’d agree. Or if it was down pipes that need to ensure here are no restrictions on new design, but we are just discussing a cat back system. As long as the materials and workmanship is spot on then not much can go wrong.

Jon_B · April 20, 2018

4 hours ago, Big Rat said:

No such thing as perfection, I want quality safe in the knowledge that someone has done a decent amount of R&D and testing and subsequently produces a quality product that does MOST of what I want.

And in my Quicksilver believe I have that, and with a bit of Rat negotiations I thought £1690.00 all in was a fair price.

🐀

Agree @Big Rat

April 20, 2018

It all depends what folk want. If it was a full system including pre cat delete that needed lots of resonance testing, decibel testing etc I’d agree. Or if it was down pipes that need to ensure here are no restrictions on new design, but we are just discussing a cat back system. As long as the materials and workmanship is spot on then not much can go wrong.

Your cheapest option then is to have stock mufflers modded.

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Stuno1 · April 20, 2018

2 minutes ago, Comedian said:

Your cheapest option then is to have stock mufflers modded.

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It’s not about the cheapest option chap. It’s about value for money. If H&S can produce a cat back system with a valve for 1300-1500 that’s ideal. They have a proven track record and produce a quality product. Also they produce a lovely sound. Modifying the stock mufflers would not achieve the goal I am aiming for.

Flytvr · April 20, 2018

4 minutes ago, Stuno1 said:

It’s not about the cheapest option chap. It’s about value for money. If H&S can produce a cat back system with a valve for 1300-1500 that’s ideal. They have a proven track record and produce a quality product. Also they produce a lovely sound. Modifying the stock mufflers would not achieve the goal I am aiming for.

Can they do a valved system for £1500?