Debica or Avon Tyres - IS250

[Linas.P]

If you not going to point it out to Tester, I am 99% confident he won't notice. But if you going to go like - "here are crack are you sure this isn't MOT fail", then he might go "well if you want me to fail it, I can fail it for you". So be careful of what you ask...😀

I just checked my old set of wheels which still has tires on them and around edges they have sort of "wrinkles", it is hard to tell in the picture, but they aren't even cracks. Very similar to what you have just bit less pronounced, but my tyres covered nearly 40k miles and I am replacing them anyway as they are now less then 3mm (make sure you click on the pics to zoom-in):

[JamesIS220]

Hi Linas,

  I had ATS remove my winter tyres today and put my summer tyre set on my Volvo 940.

 I asked them about cracks in tyres and MOT rules. He said so long as no cord showing, no issues. He even said his 3 year old Michelin tyres had slight cracking on the outside. Not good news as thought better of Michelin!

I wont mention it when my mot is due at the end of July and if a fail then change to Avon's.

James

 

[lordksmith]

On 4/14/2018 at 7:49 PM, Ishaq said:

Thanks @madasahatter

Falken were my first choice about a month ago, good tyres with good ratings. I was looking for about £250-300 for all four.

Theres another brand Rotalla with very good reviews, good ratings and low price.

Hi ,  late in the day ,but just changed from Hankook f1's to  Falken Azenis FK510 ,better braking ,road holding, quiet ,  great tyres now its just the longevity, but for a mid range price tyre so far so good!

[Linas.P]

1 hour ago, lordksmith said:

Hi ,  late in the day ,but just changed from Hankook f1's to  Falken Azenis FK510 ,better braking ,road holding, quiet ,  great tyres now its just the longevity, but for a mid range price tyre so far so good!

Can you share the price?

My problem is that from my experience neither Hankook, nor Falker, nor Avon (nor any other brands considered mid-range) are selling for what I consider "mid-range" prices e.g. you can get "Premium" tyres from Dunlop, Goodyear, Continetal in the range of £70-100, so "mid-range" then should be sort of £40-70, but I haven't seen them selling for such prices. Finally, even if you can get mid-range tyre for say £62-65, then it is no-brainer not to get more premium tyre for say ~£72. So basically many "premium" tyres are now have mixed into high-mid range niche and there are no longer distinction. We now kind of have low-end "no-names" selling at £40-£60, from where "mid-range" have merged into "premium" £60-100 and finally only very few true "high-end" tires (mostly Michelin and Pirelli) still selling well in excess of £100.

In short I am struggling to understand the point of getting "mid-range", because they are no cheaper then (loosely applied) "premium".

[Ishaq]

Actually its the Brands Performance Range hence why £60-70 but for some reason we class them as mid range in comparison with the more we’ll known brand.

I am really happy with Avon’s and will never go back to the expensive tyres with the branded logos. You say £72 for a branded may be that’s for just the front tyre as the rear is over £100 each side.

I saw a Mercedes E63 AMG the other day with SAVA tyres. These are so cheap but made by Dunlop.

[J Henderson]

I can only assume the E63 owner was partial to a burnout or two. There's no way I'd want £50 tyres on something packing a 500lbs/ft V8.

According to openeo, Nokian and Yokohama are also categorised as "premium" tyres.  Wrongly in my opinion. Yokohama tyres seem to have an over-inflated reputation and rarely perform well in tyre tests. Plus, you often see people criticising them when fitted as OEM on new cars. Nokian make good winter tyres, but summer? Premium? I would sooner buy a "mid-range" tyre such as Hankook than either of these brands.

Some of the "lesser" and younger brands are catching up fast - Nexen are being fitted to a lot of "approved used" premium marques and are now an OE supplier to Porsche..

[KenMavor]

On 5/20/2018 at 9:09 PM, JamesIS220 said:

Thank you both for your replies.

I'll be getting the car serviced soon and I'll see what my MOT tester thinks of the cracks. If a non MOT fail, and safe I'll leave them.

Thanks. James

Just been through the new MOT with two front tyres with similar cracking and passed with that being the only advisory issue on the car.

Should be Ok.

 

 

 

[Linas.P]

17 hours ago, Ishaq said:

I saw a Mercedes E63 AMG the other day with SAVA tyres. These are so cheap but made by Dunlop.

I think here we need to be quite specific. Yes indeed Debica, Sava, Dunlop and Goodyear are all owned by the same company. I have checked and my Dunlop tyres are made in Poland, Debica is Polish brand... coincidence.. I don't think so! Same can be said about Michelin and Uniroyal. I do believe they are same tyres just branded/marketed differently.

As for the price I have quoted average price per tyre for 4 tyres, so yes rear tires are usually more expensive at least that is specifically the case for 225 vs.245 on R17. The bigger is the tyre the bigger is the saving going for lesser known brand, but say on 225 R17 there is literally no difference. 

Knowing how well Dunlops last (38k miles) and how quiet they are I would b confident getting Sava and Debica as well, if Avon, Kuhmo, Hankook, Nokian, Falken can offer me tires for 30% of (and that would be £40 range) then I would consider them, otherwise what is the point? Especially when Debica, Sava and Uniroyal are available for ~£55.

[bobmc]

I've just replaced my front tyres (18's) which were some no-name brand that have been on for 18 months, with Falken FK510's. 

I'm amazed at the difference in feel and confidence, maybe it's placebo effect but  I don't honestly think so.  Got a good deal locally, £75 each inc fitting when on-line prices were starting at £65 plus fitting so well happy 🙂

 

[Linas.P]

Yes... but for £75 I could have fitted almost any tyre, except few UHPs... So why Falken?

[lordksmith]

On 5/30/2018 at 12:39 PM, Linas.P said:

Can you share the price?

My problem is that from my experience neither Hankook, nor Falker, nor Avon (nor any other brands considered mid-range) are selling for what I consider "mid-range" prices e.g. you can get "Premium" tyres from Dunlop, Goodyear, Continetal in the range of £70-100, so "mid-range" then should be sort of £40-70, but I haven't seen them selling for such prices. Finally, even if you can get mid-range tyre for say £62-65, then it is no-brainer not to get more premium tyre for say ~£72. So basically many "premium" tyres are now have mixed into high-mid range niche and there are no longer distinction. We now kind of have low-end "no-names" selling at £40-£60, from where "mid-range" have merged into "premium" £60-100 and finally only very few true "high-end" tires (mostly Michelin and Pirelli) still selling well in excess of £100.

In short I am struggling to understand the point of getting "mid-range", because they are no cheaper then (loosely applied) "premium".

Of course sorry brain fade 63.00 for 225 45 17   fronts only, mid range,  top range .it's all a matter of choice.  I've driven Goodyear Avon Pirelli Michelin.  On amg Merc, m5 bmw. I've found over the last 45years it boils down to wear stopping ability and road holding each has a weakness , each car suits a tyre find one you trust and afford stick with it. 

[bobmc]

17 hours ago, Linas.P said:

Yes... but for £75 I could have fitted almost any tyre, except few UHPs... So why Falken?

From my research, Falken seemed the best price/performance choice to me.

Given my annual mileage I couldn't justify Michellin or Bridgestones and IMO Continental seem over priced and Pirelli seem to under perform in tests against other brands.

Also I could only use online prices as a guide because I needed to fit tyres quicky as I had a damaged tyre and an imminent roadtrip. Local prices for Goodyear, Dunlop or Continental are much higher than the Falkens. 

They seem to have a good reputation on-line (forums and reviews -e.g http://www.tyrereviews.co.uk/Article/2018-Test-World-Summer-Tyre-Test.htm and also here http://www.tyrereviews.co.uk/Article/11-of-the-best-tyres-for-the-2018-summer.htm) so that sealed it for me.

 

 

[Linas.P]

2 hours ago, bobmc said:

From my research, Falken seemed the best price/performance choice to me.

For me quite a big minus is E for fuel economy. I agree Pirelli are usually overpriced, but somehow I don't see P Zero Nero GT XL for ~£67 being worse seem at least equivalent to Falken. At the same time Dunlop SP SportMaxx RT 2 XL for same £67 or Uniroyal RainSport 3 FR XL for £62 are better by any measurable way.

anyway I think key here was "I needed to fit tyres quicky as I had a damaged tyre and an imminent roadtrip" and that is valid reason.

Anyway, by no means I meant to say that Falken's are not good, just kind of reinforce my point, that tyres considered "mid-range" are not cheaper then the ones considered "premium".

[J Henderson]

22 hours ago, Linas.P said:

For me quite a big minus is E for fuel economy. I agree Pirelli are usually overpriced, but somehow I don't see P Zero Nero GT XL for ~£67 being worse seem at least equivalent to Falken. At the same time Dunlop SP SportMaxx RT 2 XL for same £67 or Uniroyal RainSport 3 FR XL for £62 are better by any measurable way.

Where are these prices from?

[Linas.P]

Prices are from various sites like Openeo, Blackcirkles, mytyres, tyres365 etc. Tyres only, no fitting. Say Falken FK510 would be ~£63/64, which makes them equivalent to £73/74 fitted.

[J Henderson]

I'm guessing that's for a 225/45R17 though?

@bobmc has 18" wheels, which adds another £10-15 per tyre. The £75 he paid seems like a very good deal. 

[Linas.P]

No, it is 225/40R18, they are no more expensive then R17. I though so as well before upgrading to R18, but to my surprise some tyres are even cheaper on R18.

https://alltyres365.co.uk/list/car/?season=summer&width=225&height=40&rim=18&price=61-71

[J Henderson]

Interesting website, and yes very cheap. I'm guessing they're based in Europe somewhere since the prices are random and not rounded-up.

Edit: Cheap for certain brands maybe. I mocked-up an order of the (fully-fitted) tyres I bought from blackcircles in March, and only saved £26. Nobody is going to fit 4 loose tyres for that... 😃

Edited June 2, 2018 by J Henderson

[Linas.P]

Standard fitting + balancing price is £10 per tyre. So yes you are correct, unless you get your tyres £40 cheaper it is not worth it. Sometimes it makes sense when say you do wheels refurbishment as in that case you get free fitting + balancing anyway.