Sub £35k RCF's selling quick?

[Linas.P]

28 minutes ago, DAW said:

As far as market value from standard insurance policies go - there is a thread on here relating to a stolen ISF & the best offer from the insurance company was 10k below the cheapest ISF available at the time if I remember correctly!!

Its the reason I took out an agreed valuation on my ISF at the time.

That is not really true, if you talking about white one.

The value of the cars was arguably around ~18-20k, the owner wanted the price he has paid ~22k, which wasn't realistic market price to begin with. He got first offer of ~14k and then negotiated around 16.5k. That was more exceptional case where insurance was particularly "hard-balling" and I personally would have sued them. So in the end he got less then market value, but not 10k less, more like 1.5-3.5k less. Still not great, but not that bad.

Don't forget insurance is fraud and only exists to make money out of you, they will do anything to pay as little as possible.

[stevet]

Lexus dealers won't drop more than £500-1000 on a used car though. Doesnt matter what it is.

You must be going to the wrong Lexus dealers then. I start at £1k off then usually end between 1.5 & £2k off.


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[Linas.P]

5 minutes ago, stevet said:

You must be going to the wrong Lexus dealers then. I start at £1k off then usually end between 1.5 & £2k off.

That is pretty much my experience as far as RC-F, RC300h and GS450h goes. They usually start the sentence with "we have special offer for you", which "is we look at the numbers" is ~1-2k off from posted price + sometimes some freebies, like discount on service plan or extended warranty.

From there (if you want more) it seems easier to agree higher P/X price for your car, then to agree discount, but in the end it is same thing. Whenever they value your car 10k and sell their car for 35k, or value your car for 7k and and sell their car for 32k.

In short after initial offer they won't budge much more, they can only offer more discounted services.

[Bluethunder]

43 minutes ago, MNMJ said:

 

I notice you are in Cheshire Nean; would you be by any chance buying it from Chester? If so, the service guys there are great, so don't be put off by some dodgy sales people 

 

I’m buying from Edinburgh so have a long drive next weekend. I’ve been using stockport only because it’s the closest to me but have had mixed service from them...

Thanks for the info on supaguard. I think I’ll look into other options to protect the paint. There’s another thread about stone chips on sonic red and I imagine that blue would be very similar...

[Flytvr]

43 minutes ago, stevet said:

You must be going to the wrong Lexus dealers then. I start at £1k off then usually end between 1.5 & £2k off.


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Agree.

It's all down to how good a negotiator you are. If they smell blood and know you are willing to travel etc, that puts you in a weak position.

When I bought my IS-F I initially walked away from the dealer. They then came back to me.

When I bought my RC-F, there were lots of counter offers. The dealer moved a fair distance to meet my final offer.

[Linas.P]

1 hour ago, Bluethunder said:

Thanks for the info on supaguard. I think I’ll look into other options to protect the paint. 

Supaguard is not bad product in itself, it is more of the problem how it is applied and rest assured dealers simply slap it on the car without any consideration, decontamination, polishing or anything, so end result it doesn't work as it should

@Flytvr - that is good point, I often found that you get better offers when you are in position to leave any time. If you travel from far away and if you excited about the car then dealers will feel that and get every penny from you.

[DAW]

2 hours ago, Linas.P said:

That is not really true, if you talking about white one.

The value of the cars was arguably around ~18-20k, the owner wanted the price he has paid ~22k, which wasn't realistic market price to begin with. He got first offer of ~14k and then negotiated around 16.5k. That was more exceptional case where insurance was particularly "hard-balling" and I personally would have sued them. So in the end he got less then market value, but not 10k less, more like 1.5-3.5k less. Still not great, but not that bad.

Don't forget insurance is fraud and only exists to make money out of you, they will do anything to pay as little as possible.

The rights & wrongs of insurance don’t really come into it as it’s required.

The fact of the matter is that to minimise your loss on a rare car an agreed valuation policy or gap insurance seem to be the only option unless you are happy to accept the loss.  

I personally wouldn’t want to leave it to the vagaries of an insurance companies idea of market value, but each to there own!!

[Linas.P]

Yes you right @DAW, but I think insurance should pay or get you the car like for like, so you don't lose in any way - that would be just fair, in fact the minimal what insurance must do. But as we know in reality you not only have to pay for overpriced insurance, but on top for GAP insurance, because insurance will always try to trick you and that is fraudulent.

And you right that is different discussion all together, but I always get frustrated reading how fraudulent insurers are... 

[doog442]

3 hours ago, Linas.P said:

That is pretty much my experience as far as RC-F, RC300h and GS450h goes. They usually start the sentence with "we have special offer for you", which "is we look at the numbers" is ~1-2k off from posted price + sometimes some freebies, like discount on service plan or extended warranty.

From there (if you want more) it seems easier to agree higher P/X price for your car, then to agree discount, but in the end it is same thing. Whenever they value your car 10k and sell their car for 35k, or value your car for 7k and and sell their car for 32k.

In short after initial offer they won't budge much more, they can only offer more discounted services.

I'm not sure I've ever walked into a Lexus dealership and had 'special offer' thrown at me. Its hardly Lexus terminology or a selling technique. Pop down a Citroen dealers and yes.

Serious conversation about price and extras usually takes place after a test drive and a few coffees in the corner of a mostly empty showroom after of course you've spoken with the finance manager about various 'options'. You will usually be directed to the finance manager before negotiation whether you want finance or not.  

[Linas.P]

14 minutes ago, doog442 said:

Serious conversation about price and extras usually takes place after a test drive and a few coffees in the corner of a mostly empty showroom after of course you've spoken with the finance manager about various 'options'. You will usually be directed to the finance manager before negotiation whether you want finance or not.  

Who said that they say it when you walk-in - you just assumed I meant it?

I had 24h test drive in RC300h and it happened exactly as you described. However, I was very clear that I outright didn't liked RC300h, the sales man still talked me trough special offer. What I found strange that in Lexus Woodford they were very keen to make good deal as long as I take car on Lexus Finance, not so much if I use my finance or even if I take it outright by cash. Then subsequently I had recall and service and similarly discussed RC-F. Discussed GS450h with Lexus Sheffield, they made decent deal by giving very good P/X value on my car, but somebody on here snapped the car before me.

[doog442]

My bad then ....its the way I read it....'special offer for you Linas' as you burst through the door..😉.apologies but I've never heard the phrase during any negotiation. 

It really gets my goat how they corner us all  with the finance guy, its obviously a set routine... if there's one bonus about the 'dark side' ie BMW you can usually take out finance with the added incentive or discount and cancel the deal within 30 days and keep the discount. Lexus have a 6 month limit before you can pay off the balance.

 

 

[DAW]

1 hour ago, Linas.P said:

Yes you right @DAW, but I think insurance should pay or get you the car like for like, so you don't lose in any way - that would be just fair, in fact the minimal what insurance must do. But as we know in reality you not only have to pay for overpriced insurance, but on top for GAP insurance, because insurance will always try to trick you and that is fraudulent.

And you right that is different discussion all together, but I always get frustrated reading how fraudulent insurers are... 

Linas I couldn’t agree more but unfortunately as you say the reality is very different.

I just felt very sorry for the owner who had his car stolen because at the time a lot of the good cars were with the dealers & he couldn’t come close to sourcing a replacement for the rediculous market value his insurance offered him. 

[Martin F]

7 hours ago, C.B said:

I find that really hard to believe since I have just gone through it myself and insurers were asking for autotrader adverts as evidence of market worth.

If you cant agree a valuation it goes to the ombudsman. Now considering you have to be able to replace the car with another similar one under an insurance policy, I cant see how they could justify a low price.

I would say the rareness and inflated values of the ISF at lexus dealers would be a good thing should it be written off.

This is all very well but don't forget you paid your insurance premium in good faith (most likely provided an estimated value as well) only to have the insurance company play games with you when you had the misfortune to request the service you were paying for. 

When people have such a severe accident that a write-off occurs its most likely an emotional time and also a lot of inconvenience, therefore once an offer is made I suspect most customers accept it. I'm sure the insurance companies have a wealth of data that shows that this practice works and saves them lots of money, hence why they keep doing it.

In my own case it took me nearly five months to receive a fair offer, only after referring to the Ombudsman, and all that time my car was in limbo. 

Never again, hence why my P&J is now covered on an agreed value policy. 

[Guest]

Can see both points, linas is saying how it should be and others stating how it actually is. Agreed value is definitely a worthwhile exercise whereas gap insurance almost seems a trick to get you to pay for an inadequate policy.

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[Martin F]

4 minutes ago, Comedian said:

whereas gap insurance almost seems a trick to get you to pay for an inadequate policy.
 

Yeah agreed, although having back to your original invoice value (rather than current market price) is a nice benefit. But hopefully you never need it!

[Linas.P]

1 hour ago, Comedian said:

Can see both points, linas is saying how it should be and others stating how it actually is. Agreed value is definitely a worthwhile exercise whereas gap insurance almost seems a trick to get you to pay for an inadequate policy.

I am well aware how it is, I guess what I am trying to say it is simply wrong (the way it is). And I completely agree with the rest i.e. if you have rare car you better of get additional protection, because Insurance is guaranteed to leave you with massive shortfall. I probably wouldn't bother with GAP cover on IS-F, but certainly on fully loaded RC-F.

For me it sounds almost like you pay for electricity, but on to of that you have to get "electricity interruption cover" - just in case they have network blackout. Kind of silly, especially considering that we are legally obliged to have one.

@DAW - as for being sorry for owners, that goes without saying. My first though was like - "poor guy" not only he had his car stolen, but now will be (sorry for language) raped by insurers.

[Guest]

I was agreeing with you.

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[Martin F]

22 minutes ago, Comedian said:

I was agreeing with you.
 

But that is no fun for Linas 😂

[rayaans]

20 hours ago, stevet said:

You must be going to the wrong Lexus dealers then. I start at £1k off then usually end between 1.5 & £2k off.


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Nope they don't take much off at all off used cars unless they're priced too high to begin with

Lexus Stockport - £850 off. Chester - £1k. Cheltenham £750. Edgeware Road - Nothing.  Bradford - £500-1k. Leeds - £500-700

Of course, if you buy a car thats been sitting around for ages or not in demand, that all changes. They pretty much know that RX's in good spec, NX and IS will pretty much sell themselves

[Linas.P]

6 hours ago, Comedian said:

I was agreeing with you.

And I didn't say otherwise, just used the chance to add one more post to my count... 👌

@rayaan - that seems to fit well to my experience as I was specifically looking to RCs and GS, both of which are much harder to shift. 

[Guest]

Well played, sir :)

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[C.B]

I tracked down and had a read of the stolen thread. Couldn't have been different from my recent experience which I just assumed to be the norm. My impression of the ombudsman was they were there to step in should an offer be obviously under market value, so for them to back up the insurers poor offer and not even give any reasons for it makes me wonder if I was just lucky or the poor chap just really unlucky.