Loving our RX450h but...

[sorcerer]

...still not convinced I'm doing things right. It's been two months now since we picked up our pride and joy and we're loving every minute of it, it really is excellent!

However, 43 years of driving has LED to some very deep-rooted habits, chief amongst which is that when sat at traffic lights or in other queues, I have always put the handbrake on and put the transmission in neutral and anything else just seems so alien! Is it really true that I shouldn't be doing that now? Is it really true that for a hybrid, I should keep the car in gear (in 'D') and keep my foot on the brake or at least put the parking brake on but do not take the transmission out of 'D'?

Also, I hate to admit it but I seem to have morphed into my parents. As a kid I hated being dragged off for a Sunday afternoon trip to the seaside but now, as a 60-year old adult, I absolutely love a good long bracing walk along the prom and then (if the weather's not too brilliant) just sitting in the car for a couple of hours, maybe even longer, watching the world go by. Being big music fans, we always used to have the radio or CDs on while we sat there. As yet, we just haven't had the chance to do this but when we do, and having heard stories of just how easily the small 12v Battery can be drained, is listening to the radio for long periods even possible in a stationary hybrid car?

I think I read somewhere that the way to do it is to make sure that the car is in the "Ready" state but that means that the daytime running lights will be on, the instrument panel will be illuminated and all the car's computers will be ready to move off but they won't get that instruction, so will that do any damage to anything or is having the car in the "Ready" state the way to do it and completely safe?

One other thing that bothers me is that before buying this car, I had a test drive in a 12-plate RX450h Luxury. While out on the drive, the salesman demonstrated 'Hill-Start Assist and if I remember right, after coming to a stop on a hill you press down a little harder on the brake for a couple of seconds and a buzzer sounds to indicate that Hill-Start Assist is active. I think I'm right in saying that the Advance is the next model up from the Luxury so I would have thought that our car should have Hill-Start Assist but I can't get it to work. How do I find out if it is actually fitted on my car because if it is, it's faulty, but if it was never meant to have it anyway then that must be the reason it's not working 

[NemesisUK]

Shifting into N at lights is a definite No,No in a hybrid and not recommended in an automatic either. In the hybrid it means the traction Battery can't be recharged, if needed, by the engine. In an automatic it just causes unnecessary wear on the transmission shifter and 'box.

It took a while for me to get used to sitting in the car leaving it in the Ready state whilst listening to the radio etc.. Yes the DRLs are on but they draw minimal power, plus in the ready state one benefits from the a/c and heater. The engine will fire up now and again, depending on how long one sits there but it's much less in the summer (no cabin heat required), it's surprising how long the traction Battery can power the stationary car. If one powers off and relies on the 12v Battery one runs the risk of discharging it and not being able to restart the car. Or perhaps not locking it.

Hill Start on my RC is automatic, just come to a stop, the car will  not roll back when taking one's foot off the brake and getting on the throttle. Not sure if that's the same with the RX though.

[Silversalmon]

Hi John, delighted you are so enthused with your new RX. It will take some time to get the hang off all the stuff in your RX, took me ages to get the hang of it all.

Re leaving it in Drive, yes, that's what you do, counter intuitive I know, and i feel sorry for those behind me but I've never had anyone comment, suppose it's all so normal now. Just do it.

Hill Start Assist. - When on a hill, just stamp hard on the brake, too gentle and it won't operate but it will, im sure there's nothing wrong with it. Just go out and try it in your driveway, it'll be fine. A yellow lamp flashes for a couple of seconds, it's really clever.

I've never sat for any extended period of time but I'm sure the engine will kick in if you're sitting in it for too long.

I used to drive around in eco mode but now don't bother, seems to be very little difference in fuel consumption and the faster response is nice. 

It took me a while to love it, i had an IS300 Sportcross which I loved but wouldn't go back now. Great cars.

 

[Paulcp]

Same comments as others above.

Re the listening to the radio, all modern venicles deplete the Battery quickly when sat with the radio on and ignition completely off. My previous RRS and Discovery Sports would close down the electrics automatically after just a few minutes of listening to the radio with the message "the car is now shutting down due to the low battery" When trying to watch the useless TV in the RRS it would last all of 2-3 minutes before it needed the engine starting to be able to continue.

@Silversalmon I agree re eco mode. It does let you be more gentle in trying to activate EV driving. Ironically, our Discovery Sport, which had eco, normal and Sport driving modes, was always more fuel efficient when in sports mode. 

[rayaans]

Im pretty sure the 3RX turns itself off to maintain enough charge to turn the vehicle on but Ive never had to try. Should be OK for 30-40 mins though. The IS definitely turns off to prevent depletion of the Battery though.

As others have said - leave it in D or shift to P and then apply the parking brake.

Hill start on the 3RX. You have to hold the pedal down all the way to the floor for a few seconds until it beeps.

[Stuno1]

Why not go to neutral when stopped driving an auto? All it does is disengage the gears and let the car idle until engaging gesrs again. 

[SLACKBLADDER]

3 hours ago, sorcerer said:

...still not convinced I'm doing things right. It's been two months now since we picked up our pride and joy and we're loving every minute of it, it really is excellent!

However, 43 years of driving has led to some very deep-rooted habits, chief amongst which is that when sat at traffic lights or in other queues, I have always put the handbrake on and put the transmission in neutral and anything else just seems so alien! Is it really true that I shouldn't be doing that now? Is it really true that for a hybrid, I should keep the car in gear (in 'D') and keep my foot on the brake or at least put the parking brake on but do not take the transmission out of 'D'?

Also, I hate to admit it but I seem to have morphed into my parents. As a kid I hated being dragged off for a Sunday afternoon trip to the seaside but now, as a 60-year old adult, I absolutely love a good long bracing walk along the prom and then (if the weather's not too brilliant) just sitting in the car for a couple of hours, maybe even longer, watching the world go by. Being big music fans, we always used to have the radio or CDs on while we sat there. As yet, we just haven't had the chance to do this but when we do, and having heard stories of just how easily the small 12v battery can be drained, is listening to the radio for long periods even possible in a stationary hybrid car?

I think I read somewhere that the way to do it is to make sure that the car is in the "Ready" state but that means that the daytime running lights will be on, the instrument panel will be illuminated and all the car's computers will be ready to move off but they won't get that instruction, so will that do any damage to anything or is having the car in the "Ready" state the way to do it and completely safe?

One other thing that bothers me is that before buying this car, I had a test drive in a 12-plate RX450h Luxury. While out on the drive, the salesman demonstrated 'Hill-Start Assist and if I remember right, after coming to a stop on a hill you press down a little harder on the brake for a couple of seconds and a buzzer sounds to indicate that Hill-Start Assist is active. I think I'm right in saying that the Advance is the next model up from the Luxury so I would have thought that our car should have Hill-Start Assist but I can't get it to work. How do I find out if it is actually fitted on my car because if it is, it's faulty, but if it was never meant to have it anyway then that must be the reason it's not working 

Put radio one on or Dire straits on full wind down the windows cuz 60 is the new 30 and stop putting it in neutral  cuz you will ***** up and select the wrong one and if I'm behind waiting you'll get the Sc grumbling at you hehe  I'm older than you 

[Verbout]

24 minutes ago, Stuno1 said:

Why not go to neutral when stopped driving an auto? All it does is disengage the gears and let the car idle until engaging gesrs again. 

 

[Stuno1]

So it does place less stress on the gearbox when changing to neutral but not a lot. So still better to do it but ultimately it makes no / very little difference.

[sorcerer]

30 minutes ago, Verbout said:

 

Now come on Garry, we've discussed this before in various topics. That guy says that you don't need to put the car in Neutral, but he doesn't specifically give any examples of anything bad happening if you do - because nothing bad will happen. I've driven nothing but automatics for more than 30 years and put over 120,000 miles on one car with auto, always putting it in neutral when I stop and the box was as good as ever.

[sorcerer]

1 hour ago, SLACKBLADDER said:

Put radio one on or Dire straits on full wind down the windows cuz 60 is the new 30 and stop putting it in neutral  cuz you will ***** up and select the wrong one and if I'm behind waiting you'll get the Sc grumbling at you hehe  I'm older than you 

Don't worry Les, I'm a life-long rock fan and my favourite band of all time is LED Zeppelin but I've also got in there lots of AC/DC, Dire Straits, Rolling Stones, Deep Purple, Free, Bad Company, The Who and so the list goes on 

[sorcerer]

Thanks for everything so far guys 

I've just been to pick up my wife from work and thought I'd give Hill Start another go and I'm glad to say that it works - but only of a fashion. 

Both Ray and Edward above said that you have to stomp hard or apply a lot of pressure to the brake pedal so I did. Lo and behold, I got a single beep and the amber flashing light that Edward mentioned came on, so I felt very happy and took my foot off the brake pedal but just a couple of seconds later I got two beeps, the amber light went out and the car started moving forward. This happened on even the slightest of inclines and it didn't matter if the car was in Drive or Neutral, it still happened.

Doh! Maybe I've been a bit thick. It's only just dawned on me now as I sit typing this out - can you move your foot completely off as I was doing or are you meant to keep your foot on the brake and the Hill Start just gives you enough time to move from brake to accelerator without rolling?

[NemesisUK]

1 hour ago, Stuno1 said:

Why not go to neutral when stopped driving an auto? All it does is disengage the gears and let the car idle until engaging gesrs again. 

This answers a lot of questions regarding this 

https://mechanics.stackexchange.com/a/18561/16546

[mikesands]

John, You might not realise it but you have just bought the most sophisticated camping/caravanning generator in the world.

I discovered that I could connect my caravan Battery to the RX400H via the cig lighter socket, lock the car doors WITH the car in READY mode and leave it all day while I went walking.  Obviously I needed to use my second key to lock the car (found it really surprising that I could lock the car with one key still inside it).  The caravan would draw any power it needed from the RX's 12 volt Battery but when that became depleted, the hybrid batteries would charge the 12v RX Battery and when the car got a bit twitchy with this it would fire up the engine.  Even with us sitting in the caravan and using lots of power for lights, TV computers etc, the car would sit there silently for about 30 minutes then the engine would fire up for about 3 minutes.  - a damn sight quieter generator than a typical dedicated 4 stroke generator.

..... so in answer to your question - there is no problem whatsoever with sitting in READY mode listening to music.

Now to the question of Hillstart.  Sorry but I don't understand - why would any automatic need hillstart.  I thought it was a way of preventing a manual car from stalling if the driver let out the clutch without enough revs.  Even on the steepest of hills I cannot remember any of my automatic cars running backwards when in drive mode, and certainly none of them have ever stalled.

Mike

[steveledzep]

24 minutes ago, sorcerer said:

Don't worry Les, I'm a life-long rock fan and my favourite band of all time is Led Zeppelin but I've also got in there lots of AC/DC, Dire Straits, Rolling Stones, Deep Purple, Free, Bad Company, The Who and so the list goes on 

Your list is very similar to mine John.  Your car is very similar too.  Great music and a great car too. 

[rayaans]

2 hours ago, Stuno1 said:

Why not go to neutral when stopped driving an auto? All it does is disengage the gears and let the car idle until engaging gesrs again. 

In the hybrids, the Battery doesn't charge when in Neutral. Hence why not recommended for the hybrid vehicles. Not entirely sure why its bad for conventional automatics though.

45 minutes ago, sorcerer said:

Thanks for everything so far guys 

I've just been to pick up my wife from work and thought I'd give Hill Start another go and I'm glad to say that it works - but only of a fashion. 

Both Ray and Edward above said that you have to stomp hard or apply a lot of pressure to the brake pedal so I did. Lo and behold, I got a single beep and the amber flashing light that Edward mentioned came on, so I felt very happy and took my foot off the brake pedal but just a couple of seconds later I got two beeps, the amber light went out and the car started moving forward. This happened on even the slightest of inclines and it didn't matter if the car was in Drive or Neutral, it still happened.

Doh! Maybe I've been a bit thick. It's only just dawned on me now as I sit typing this out - can you move your foot completely off as I was doing or are you meant to keep your foot on the brake and the Hill Start just gives you enough time to move from brake to accelerator without rolling?

Yes, that's how its supposed to work, so nothing wrong there. Hence the term "hill start" and not "hill hold". 

It disengages after about 2 seconds 

You can move your foot completely off during this time and it wont roll back until it disengages. Its meant to give you enough time to move from brake to accelerator without rolling o steep hills.

[Verbout]

1 hour ago, sorcerer said:

Now come on Garry, we've discussed this before in various topics. That guy says that you don't need to put the car in Neutral, but he doesn't specifically give any examples of anything bad happening if you do - because nothing bad will happen. I've driven nothing but automatics for more than 30 years and put over 120,000 miles on one car with auto, always putting it in neutral when I stop and the box was as good as ever.

I didn’t put forward an opinion I just offered information from an American engineer.

Take it or leave it. 

[Silversalmon]

To further the transmission discussion, the Lexus RX range use CVT transmission, that would surely negate the need to choose neutral?

[NemesisUK]

1 hour ago, rayaans said:

In the hybrids, the battery doesn't charge when in Neutral. Hence why not recommended for the hybrid vehicles. Not entirely sure why its bad for conventional automatics though.

You haven't read the info in my link?

1 hour ago, NemesisUK said:

This answers a lot of questions regarding this 

https://mechanics.stackexchange.com/a/18561/16546

 

[NemesisUK]

59 minutes ago, Silversalmon said:

To further the transmission discussion, the Lexus RX range use CVT transmission, that would surely negate the need to choose neutral?

There is no need to select neutral, no matter what the transmission type.

[rayaans]

3 hours ago, NemesisUK said:

There is no need to select neutral, no matter what the transmission type.

Apart from when it's manual I guess. 

I thought switching to N in conventional autos reduced wear on the brakes? Or so I was told anyway

[NemesisUK]

3 minutes ago, rayaans said:

Apart from when it's manual I guess. 

 

Judging by the number of cars I see rocking back and forth at lights, I'd say many manual drivers don't bother either and sit there riding the clutch! 

 

5 minutes ago, rayaans said:

I thought switching to N in conventional autos reduced wear on the brakes? Or so I was told anyway

If the wheels aren't rotating I'm not sue how there can be any wear on the brakes?

[rayaans]

31 minutes ago, NemesisUK said:

Judging by the number of cars I see rocking back and forth at lights, I'd say many manual drivers don't bother either and sit there riding the clutch! 

 

If the wheels aren't rotating I'm not sue how there can be any wear on the brakes?

Car being in D is constantly working against the brakes when stopped though? 

[NemesisUK]

1 minute ago, rayaans said:

Car being in D is constantly working against the brakes when stopped though? 

I'd say the brakes would be under stress, resisting the rotation force but as there is no movement there can't be any wear. The stress experienced would be insignificant compared to that exerted when slowing the car from speed?

From the link I posted above -

"Also the wheel brakes are not rubbing but are stopped and they will not wear at all while holding the forward creep of the car when in D."

[rayaans]

12 hours ago, NemesisUK said:

I'd say the brakes would be under stress, resisting the rotation force but as there is no movement there can't be any wear. The stress experienced would be insignificant compared to that exerted when slowing the car from speed?

From the link I posted above -

"Also the wheel brakes are not rubbing but are stopped and they will not wear at all while holding the forward creep of the car when in D."

Fair enough, just what I had been told back in 2001 when I got my first automatic - never actually shifted to N though lol