End of The GS in the UK

[Linas.P]

5 minutes ago, dutchie01 said:

they are selling by the truckloads so they must be good? 

I often found that to be exactly opposite. I don't like Audi for other reasons, but that is the topic for another day.

@noby76 thanks for explaining me what I can feel in my daily driving and what not... Let's just say I much prefer IS250 handling over Passat CC in my daily driving... ohhh and for some funny reason from all the cars I had I always preferred RWD over FWD - surely it has nothing to do with wheels driving the car....

[J Henderson]

Porsche & Ferrari make the best FWD cars.

[Ala Larj]

Apparently they're ending the GS in the UK!

[Jamesf1]

1 hour ago, Ala Larj said:

Apparently they're ending the GS in the UK!

Lol

 

[Jamesf1]

1 hour ago, J Henderson said:

Porsche & Ferrari make the best FWD cars.

Outrageous! Aston Martin make the best FWD cars. 

[J Henderson]

They do!

 

Sent from my SM-G935F using Tapatalk

 

Edited April 27, 2018 by J Henderson
Repaired broken picture

[Guest]

17 hours ago, noby76 said:

 

which RWD qualities are you talking? if its squatting under acceleration, my Accord does that so did my ford cougar V6. not sure what you mean by RWD qualities. 

On FWD you're using the same wheels to propel the car as you are to turn. That equals it's more difficult to feed more power and increase speed during a turn without resulting in under- steer.

With RWD, easier to create a car with neutral balance, where weight distribution is closer to 50%. RWD can also apply power around a turn without effecting steering (obviously if you use too much throttle can lose the back but that's different to effecting the steering|).

If you prefer FWD then that's fine - there are some great FWD cars that are no doubt better round a track than some RWD (example Type R civic versus IS250) - but there are inherent differences that are an advantage; physics doesn't care if you agree or not. It's just a fact. 

[noby76]

2 hours ago, Comedian said:

On FWD you're using the same wheels to propel the car as you are to turn. That equals it's more difficult to feed more power and increase speed during a turn without resulting in under- steer.

With RWD, easier to create a car with neutral balance, where weight distribution is closer to 50%. RWD can also apply power around a turn without effecting steering (obviously if you use too much throttle can lose the back but that's different to effecting the steering|).

If you prefer FWD then that's fine - there are some great FWD cars that are no doubt better round a track than some RWD (example Type R civic versus IS250) - but there are inherent differences that are an advantage; physics doesn't care if you agree or not. It's just a fact. 

this fact sounds all well and good when one is looking to extract maximum handling performance out of the car on a race track where times are measured in tenths of a second. but saying that, one is not even guaranteed to go quicker on the track just because its RWD and BTCC racing proves this.  but lets be honest for our day to day driving and the occasional blast on less busy roads when no one is watching, FWD can do this just fine. technologies like electronic steering , traction control, stability/yaw control, suspension type/damping, limited slip diff has made tourque steer pretty much a thing of the past even if its there, its not that bad like it used to be on high BHP FWD cars. 

This improvement in technology has made manufactures like Audi, Merc and now Lexus following suite to fit FWD on models which are not deemed "high performance"  and FWD cars in the hands of most people in conditions like rain, damp, ice, snow  is more controllable than RWD.. 

i think driver aids has made most RWD  drivers think they are better drivers than they actually are when in fact most of the electronics are actually keeping the car car balanced and straight to prevent one from ending up in a ditch but makes diver think its all them... 

[Jamesf1]

 one is not even guaranteed to go quicker on the track just because its RWD

- all else equal you would.

but lets be honest for our day to day driving and the occasional blast on less busy roads when no one is watching, FWD can do this just fine. technologies like electronic steering , traction control, stability/yaw control, suspension type/damping, limited slip diff has made tourque steer pretty much a thing of the past even if its there, its not that bad like it used to be on high BHP FWD cars. 

- totally agree

i think driver aids has made most RWD  drivers think they are better drivers than they actually are when in fact most of the electronics are actually keeping the car car balanced and straight to prevent one from ending up in a ditch but makes diver think its all them... 

- eh? Ive provoked the traction\stability control into action once on my GS in 27k miles...that was a standing start at walking speed on snow. However, disable these systems and a RWD car is easier to loose it for average Joe

 

[noby76]

20 minutes ago, Jamesf1 said:

 one is not even guaranteed to go quicker on the track just because its RWD

- all else equal you would.

 

No you wouldn't. SEAT Cupra, Renault Megane RS and the New Civic type R's have all officiallly lapped famous tracks quicker than Audi RS3, Merc A clas AMG and BMW 140iM these pack even more power than them.. again BTCC racing which has a combination of FWD and RWD cars competing proves this claim is flawed and all things are made equal in this sector of racing. 

20 minutes ago, Jamesf1 said:

 - eh? Ive provoked the traction\stability control into action once on my GS in 27k miles...that was a standing start at walking speed on snow.

 

I believe the electronics cannot be fully turned off in your Lexus GS and fact that you haven't provoked them does not mean they and other driver aids are not working in the background when driving..  with aids completely turned off most will find it difficult to even keep a RWD car to point straight when accelerating heavy on dry tarmac.. not even talking of taking bends...  

[Jamesf1]

• Name: John
• Lexus Model: GS430 Sold, Honda Accord 2.4
• Year of Lexus: 2003
• Location: Bedfordshire

• Report post
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Posted 9 minutes ago

  25 minutes ago, Jamesf1 said:

 one is not even guaranteed to go quicker on the track just because its RWD

- all else equal you would.

 

No you wouldn't. SEAT Cupra, Renault Megane RS and the New Civic type R's have all officiallly lapped famous tracks quicker than Audi RS3, Merc A clas AMG and BMW 140iM these pack even more power than them.. again BTCC racing which has a combination of FWD and RWD cars competing proves this claim is flawed and all things are made equal in this sector of racing. 

- I said all being equal. totally different makes models in not all being equal. Convert any of those cars to RWD and that would be quicker. And the BTCC things are made equal by nullyfying the RWD advantage

fact that you haven't provoked them does not mean they and other driver aids are not working in the background when driving.

- yes it does. In the background the electronics are monitoring set parameters, its not constantly stopping me fly off the road

with aids completely turned off most will find it difficult to even keep a RWD car to point straight when accelerating heavy on dry tarmac..

- just LOL

[noby76]

22 minutes ago, Jamesf1 said:

• - I said all being equal. totally different makes models in not all being equal. Convert any of those cars to RWD and that would be quicker. And the BTCC things are made equal by nullyfying the RWD advantage

 

They had more power to weight ratio and still didnt lap tracks faster than a FWD Civic Type R in other words, they were better on paper due to having the upper hand with AWD, RWD and more power...what makes you think it wont go slower if converted to RWD? we all know it goes faster in FWD with power to weight ratio disadvantage when compared to the 3.  BTCC's nullifying is only at the start there is nothing in place nullyfying RWD cars when taking bends and driving in a straight line. which makes them all equal..

and yes your vehicle stability control and electronic stability control is constantly stopping you from wandering and flying off the road.  so dont think its your skills keeping you there.

 

[Jamesf1]

and yes your vehicle stability control and electronic stability control is constantly stopping you from wandering and flying off the road.  

 

- ok you are joking now right?

 

[noby76]

https://www.ford.co.uk/shop/research/technology/safety-and-security/electronic-stability-control

Electronic Stability Control (ESC) incorporates a range of technologies designed to give you greater control of your vehicle and help keep you safe. For example, sensors constantly monitor the speed of each individual wheel, the car’s ‘yaw rate’ (its angle and direction) and steering angle. If you have to steer sharply left or right, perhaps to avoid an obstacle, ESC precisely balances braking power between each individual wheel and can also reduce power from the engine. This helps counter understeer and oversteer, making your car more stable and easier for you to control. ESC and Traction Control can also reduce the risk of wheelspin in wet or icy conditions.

 

fact that you not seeing a light come on on  your dashboard telling you its working does not mean it not doing its job every millisecond of your daily driving. 

[Linas.P]

That some shi** box goes around the track faster it doesn't make FWD better, especially for luxury cars and pleasure driving. There are certainly advantages for FWD, but for what I am looking when buying the car FWD advantages makes no sense for me. There is specific types of cars where FWD makes a lot of sense - small hatchbacks (more space), family cars (more space), economy cars (cheaper to make)... but I am not looking for buying either of such cars. When you are in luxury, performance, sports segment FWD always going to be disadvantage.

[Linas.P]

6 minutes ago, Jamesf1 said:

ok you are joking now right?

His jokes never made much sense to anyone - overtime you just learn how to ignore them.. 

[noby76]

2 minutes ago, Linas.P said:

His jokes never made much sense to anyone - overtime you just learn how to ignore them.. 

Linas your IS250 is a family saloon lets drop the Luxury word beacuse its not... as i said in a prevous thread.. drive a GS430 with the renowed V8 and let me know if your IS250 is luxury. how am i joking. i just told you what ESC does on a vehicle to prove its not your driving skills in a RWD thats keeping you safe and you think its a joke? 

[Linas.P]

At least it is more luxury then Honda Accord, that will do for me for time being... 

On the serious note - IS250 SE-L is as luxury as it gets for 2008 "entry luxury" car, standard equipment is richer then mk3 IS with exception of Premier (an better then any of contemporary competitors in that price range), built quality and materials were best in class at the time, N/A v6 is smooth and power the car effortlessly. If IS250 is family saloon, then it must be quite bad at it.. 

You comparison with GS is just dumb - Is IS more luxury then CT, yes obviously.. is GS more luxury then IS.. yes... is LS more luxury then GS.. obviously. You comparing apples and oranges as usual. 

What 2008 IS250 is NOT.. it is not sports car or fast car or anything sporty.. suspension is tuned for comfort, engine is mediocre in power (still was ok back in the day), automatic gearbox is lovely in cruising, but not very fast. 

[Jamesf1]

so from the dawn of motoring to the 80's, when almost all cars were RWD and did not have electronics...how did anyone survive?

[Linas.P]

1 minute ago, Jamesf1 said:

so from the dawn of motoring to the 80's, when almost all cars were RWD and did not have electronics...how did anyone survive?

According to some they were all "legendary" drivers.. the same ones you now have to find the way to overtake doing 45MPH on motorway.. 

[noby76]

Just now, Linas.P said:

 

What 2008 IS250 is NOT.. it is not sports car or fast car or anything sporty.. suspension is tuned for comfort, engine is mediocre in power (still was ok back in the day), automatic gearbox is lovely in cruising, but not very fast. 

which will fit the bill for a FWD perfectly... the 250 drives and  performs no better than the accord. already had one as a courtesy car when my GS went in for cambelt change and trust me its no better than the Accord in every way shape or form 

[noby76]

4 minutes ago, Jamesf1 said:

so from the dawn of motoring to the 80's, when almost all cars were RWD and did not have electronics...how did anyone survive?

average cars where less powerful than they are now and there were more road accidents aswell than there are now.

[Jamesf1]

4 minutes ago, noby76 said:

which will fit the bill for a FWD perfectly... the 250 drives and  performs no better than the accord. already had one as a courtesy car when my GS went in for cambelt change and trust me its no better than the Accord in every way shape or form 

Ive had both, 2.4 typeS and IS250 sei - and your statement is simply not true. Accord is a fine car and engine, but the Lexus is superior on quality and drive, except in manual form, the Honda 6 speed is a sweet as manual boxes get.

[Linas.P]

10 minutes ago, noby76 said:

which will fit the bill for a FWD perfectly... the 250 drives and  performs no better than the accord. already had one as a courtesy car when my GS went in for cambelt change and trust me its no better than the Accord in every way shape or form 

You Accord must be made to your very personal order and not your "average Accord" then... Because the last time I have been in one of those I was unable to tell the difference between any other cheap FWD car. From my experience IS250 is in totally different league from Accord - even Honda would tell you that. It is same as comparing Toyota Avensis with Lexus IS250 - if there would be no difference - there would be no Lexus brand as such.

And agree re manual gearbox, Accord manual gearbox is as sweet as manual gearboxes gets.. Lexus manual is hit and miss, but that is why I have auto.

[noby76]

which qualities? you mean the plastic interior? which drive? you mean the diesel like sounding engine.. guys please dont make me laugh ...