End of The GS in the UK

[Linas.P]

If only would that be last pages (more like half of 29 pages).... Maybe it is going to bring us to better understanding and enlightenment - argument is not necessary the bad thing 😄 It is not like we going to run out of the pages or server memory on LOC site? is it? 

[Jamesf1]

Answer to all is - NO... and that is not opinion.

but wether it matters is.

If you dont want leather, RTCA and BSM or a 450h or bothered by rwd the subjectively the ES is not inferior, and even if you do, other elements may make the ES, subjectively for an given individual, better. Your comparing these vehicles on paper only.

and GS cant be specced in 4wd anyway so ?

[Jamesf1]

5 minutes ago, Shahpor said:

Considering that the majority of the last page of this thread is the two of you arguing, one or both of you really need to stop posting.  Either will do.

The majority of this entire thread is people arguing, and its far from just us two. Besides, i felt like I was debating with Linus. He has his view I have mine.

[Linas.P]

Exactly - subjectively, so you playing devils advocate here... Objective way is to compare them by the features they have/don't have... to say it doesn't really matter ... well that is an "opinion".

Subjectively, GS cannot be configured in UK as AWD, but it doesn't need to because it is RWD... 

[Shahpor]

Well, if you are both enjoying it, who am I to argue   It seemed more like arguing for arguments sake to me, that's all.

[Jamesf1]

And im on record further back as agreeing on RWD - that conceptually is a let down, but, Im reserving judgement on how big a deal it is for me until ive driven one.

[Jamesf1]

6 minutes ago, Shahpor said:

Well, if you are both enjoying it, who am I to argue   It seemed more like arguing for arguments sake to me, that's all.

Im having a slow work day.

p.s. feel free to join in. 

[Shahpor]

I wish my day was that slow

Not much to add really other than to say I will reserve judgement on the ES until I have seen one in person.  Sad to see the GS go though.  In my opinion, the GS (especially the 450h) was one of the best cars Lexus produced.

[Linas.P]

I am quite busy as well... to be honest... but work has to wait when somebody triggers me stating that 300h is not slugging, because it is faster than Prius 😄 

[Jamesf1]

Had a look at the specs in more detail because I hadnt compared them myself.

In terms of base spec there isnt much in it, main difference is synthetic vs real leather, but the ES undercuts GS by £1000 so you cant expect (IMHO) it to exactly match or exceed the GS

GS has

• Lexus Safety System Plus with ACC/PCS, LKA, TSR & AHB

ES has

2nd Generation Lexus Safety Sense+ 

This comes with an improved system unit, an upgraded PCS function and new Lane Tracing Assist (LTA), while retaining the established ACC, RSA and AHB functions.

So ES has better safety kit as standard. Both have 17" wheels, parking sensors, DAB, NAV smart entry, heated and electric seats, 

Summary - base models

ES has over GS:

new gen hybrid drive

Sunroof

Privacy glass

improved safety kit

but is missing:

real leather vs synthetic

has 8" screen vs 12" screen

but for £1000 less.

[Linas.P]

5 minutes ago, Jamesf1 said:

ES has over GS:

new gen hybrid drive

Sunroof

Privacy glass

improved safety kit

but is missing:

real leather vs synthetic

has 8" screen vs 12" screen

but for £1000 less.

Not sure that is true. Sunroof is not standard on ES surely? 2018 GS has 12 Inch screen and certainly privacy glass. As well I tend to believe it has RCTA and BSM... or am I confusing it with 450h, which is obviously £20k more expensive?

[st4]

Answer to all is - NO... and that is not opinion.

but wether it matters is.

If you dont want leather, RTCA and BSM or a 450h or bothered by rwd the subjectively the ES is not inferior, and even if you do, other elements may make the ES, subjectively for an given individual, better. Your comparing these vehicles on paper only.

and GS cant be specced in 4wd anyway so ?

 

Abroad you can get GS with 4wd and with a wider range of engines namely the 4pot turbo, the 3.5 both with RWD and AWD.

 

The UK just isn’t an important enough market to get these superior GSs. We do get the F but no one buys them - which is a shame.

 

A longitudinal mounted RWD platform is intrinsically superior to a transverse mount FWD one so I do see the point made that hopefully it would have been cheaper than the outgoing GS or loaded up with equipment to make up for the fact it was based around an inferior transverse platform as opposed to a bespoke longitudinal one.

 

That said given its only been offered with a very tepid drivetrain the lack of rear or all drive won’t be an issue. It’s in no ways being marketed or promoted as a drivers car (which a GS kind of is) but hopefully it’ll be reliable (almost a given) quiet and comfortable. For 80% of buyers that may well be enough.

 

I’ll reserve final judgement until I see the car and drive one but think the Camry will do a very similar job for a lot less money and there’s an IS, LS or another GS shaped car in my future.

 

 

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[Vlady]

2 hours ago, Jamesf1 said:

My GS rides very well.

My GS rides really well too! I had a shot in a 68-plate E-class and I wouldn't change my Lexus for MB!

[st4]

My GS rides really well too! I had a shot in a 68-plate E-class and I wouldn't change my Lexus for MB!

I changed my MB for a Lexus. I don’t regret it. In every single way it’s the better car. Rides better, more fun to drive, more space, better seats, better spec. Just, well, better.


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[Jamesf1]

According to Lexus uk website sunroof is standard on base ES

 the cheapest GS that comes with BSM as standard is the F sport at £43,395. The GS premier spec is semi aniline leather @ £45k - which is odd as lesser spec models are leather

cant find any reference to privacy glass, the lexus configerator images for the base model certainly doesnt show privacy glass - GS

[Vlady]

I think we look at ES as a substitution to GS and expect it to be as good to drive (hard to do with FWD though), as plush, as quite but the same time we expect it to be cheaper as we know that ES is cheaper brother to GS and we found out there is no much savings in price in between both models we got disappointed, when I say we I mostly mean I, sorry, didn't mean to offend anyone here. 

We shall look at it as Lexus introducing a new model like UX etc, it is a shame the same time Lexus takes away GS but something tells me it will be back on the market 5-7 years from now on.

I saw ES in flesh and was not impressed, at all, it is not on a par with my GS and Camry (very well specced) which was 10k (euro) cheaper made better sense especially that they had the same drive train!

Someone above said when time comes to change cars he will be buying a 2018 GS and I might be doing just the same.

I will well ES on the market, I really do as I want Lexus to stay in UK.

[Linas.P]

56 minutes ago, Jamesf1 said:

According to Lexus uk website sunroof is standard on base ES

 the cheapest GS that comes with BSM as standard is the F sport at £43,395. The GS premier spec is semi aniline leather @ £45k - which is odd as lesser spec models are leather

cant find any reference to privacy glass, the lexus configerator images for the base model certainly doesnt show privacy glass - GS

I think my mistake was to assume, that all what is standard in GS450h is standard in GS300h as well. Now clearly ES300h is replacing ~GS300h and not 450h, so it is correct to compare them in terms of price and equipment like for like, so you right ES probably isn't missing much from GS300h equipment... 

I guess here my only "negative narrative" is that nothing is replacing GS450h (kind of obvious) and that will be outright loss in the range.. 

[doog442]

4 hours ago, Linas.P said:

You are right about NX, missed that.. which IS has it? I might be wrong, but google brings no results with "Tahara + IS".

 

The IS200t  and IS300h (dependant on model)

[Jamesf1]

re lack of 450h - As a fan\entusiast I agree. But Lexus is such a niche player it has to plan its products carefully. And by such a niche player, the facts are:

Current gen 450h made 700 odd sales of 3400 total (including 250, 300h and GSF) in  years 2012-2018 (to end Q1)

and the bulk of those were the early years. in 2016 on the sales of 450h was 48 - for the whole year. Or put it another way, each lexus dealer in the country sold 1 GS 450h each. You can see why they dont think its worth having a ES 450h

since 2012 lexus have sold 3398 of the current GS total -  all models

for comparison, BMW in the same period sold over 46000 520d Msport auto saloons. So not including the estate in that figure, or manuals, or non msport spec.

the whole Lexus GS range outsold only one 5 series model which has been on sale over the same period  - the most nich one, and only just - M5,  3000 sold

[st4]

I think we look at ES as a substitution to GS and expect it to be as good to drive (hard to do with FWD though), as plush, as quite but the same time we expect it to be cheaper as we know that ES is cheaper brother to GS and we found out there is no much savings in price in between both models we got disappointed, when I say we I mostly mean I, sorry, didn't mean to offend anyone here. 
We shall look at it as Lexus introducing a new model like UX etc, it is a shame the same time Lexus takes away GS but something tells me it will be back on the market 5-7 years from now on.
I saw ES in flesh and was not impressed, at all, it is not on a par with my GS and Camry (very well specced) which was 10k (euro) cheaper made better sense especially that they had the same drive train!
Someone above said when time comes to change cars he will be buying a 2018 GS and I might be doing just the same.
I will well ES on the market, I really do as I want Lexus to stay in UK.

They’ll have to if re launching the GS base it around a whole new platform or shorten the floor of the LS or LC. Or stretch the IS.

All Lexus cars will be transverse mount bar the LS as I bet Toyota won’t engineer another longitudinal platform. Which I think is a shame.


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[Ten Ninety]

7 hours ago, st4 said:

1. It will be more spacious than the GS. The S90 is used by chauffeurs and exec hire drivers. This could be too so the recliner seat might not be a bad idea
2. The GS rides well
3. Doubt they’ll cut the sound deadening

The GS does not ride well on 18" wheels. It might ride well compared to other cars on 18" wheels, but that's the whole problem. Everyone seems to have forgotten what real comfort is, like you get when you run tyres that actually have a few inches of sidewall.

I've just given my GS to my wife and am having a much more comfortable daily ride in a Prius PHV. Sure, I miss my 18-way adjustable seats and the quality ambience but I'm enjoying not being thrown about on poor sections of road and on being able to negotiate the speed bumps outside work without getting kicked in the butt every time. 15" wheels for the win. 

The sound deadening is, of course, pure supposition on my part. However, the new LS has dropped the ball on that front from what I've heard and I can't see the ES being any different.

[rayaans]

23 hours ago, Ten Ninety said:

So I'll pay £5 more for an ES Takumi than a GS Premier? So much for the much-vaunted price reduction to account for the inferior platform. What do I get for that? Cheap materials, worse economy and pointless rear reclining seats instead of a useful passenger-seat ottoman? Seriously? Who the hell wants them in a car this size - it ain't a chauffeur-driven barge like the LS! And multi-weather headlights? Really, Lexus? Really? 

I bet it'll ride just as poorly as the GS on its stupid big wheels and have worse road noise as well, because they'll have cut the sound deadening to save costs. 

I predict they'll sell about two of these. One of which I might just buy in three year's time once some poor fool's taken a serious haircut on it. But it'll have to be a bargain, and it'll have to have a HUD, which isn't clear yet from the specs. 

 

Urm your argument is pretty flawed

1) Worse economy? Since when? The ES is tested on the new WLTP system, not the old one that the GS was tested on.

2) It actually has more space than the GS in the back. It is like a limo and some people might want that sort of thing. 

3) Also the materials aren't exactly cheap. The reviews are favourable. Lets not forget the GS has some pretty bad materials as well. 

4) The Pound has dipped hence the prices....., not to mention inflation

Also, if you've driven a new LS, you would know that the thing is deadly quiet, more so than any other LS before it and on par with the competition

[spacenase]

11 hours ago, Linas.P said:

Does ES have RTCA and BSM in standard equipment as GS?

 

Just a small point, my GS Exec Edition does not have either of these, so it is not standard across the GS range. In fact, it looks like the only trim level that has lost them on the ES is the F-Sport. Also, it's not unheard of for a brand new model to have a lower specification than the model it replaces as manufacturers will often spec up the last versions of old models to help them sell.

 

[ColinBarber]

On 9/21/2018 at 11:01 AM, Linas.P said:

@ColinBarber - it is not negative narrative. It is negative fact - LSS+ (or Lexus Safety System Plus) is precisely in the place to have all these safety features across the range  by default - that is not according to me, it is according to Lexus! You should not need to get Premium pack to get RTCA or BSM... especially when it is standard on IS, which is effectively lower class then ES. Again is nothing about my "negative narrative" - it is factually correct!

Does the IS have RCTA and BSM at the base grade - NO

Does the NX have RCTA and BSM at the base grade - NO

Does to RC have RCTA and BSM at the base grade - NO

It is you that needs to get your facts straight!

[ColinBarber]

On 9/21/2018 at 12:05 PM, Linas.P said:

Ok... so it is second only to CT to get this terrible fake leather upholstery? Didn't they say it will stretch imagination and expectations in it's class? How exactly, by replacing standard real leather (and usually very nice leather in Lexus) with material made from recycled bin bags? 

Trying to defend this is simply blind and futile attempt... ES is clearly step backwards not only from GS... but now seems as well even from IS... 

Yet again more lies. 

The base grade of IS and NX also have Tahara upholstery. The base CT upholstery isn't Tahara.