End of The GS in the UK

[LexusIS300h]

@Linas.P What I’m saying is that to me there is plenty power there, so it’s good for me. Prius is nippy too, it makes a Porsche look puny for at least 30 feet flooring it from traffic lights, looks of WTF from Porsche driver when it takes off 👍😂

[Linas.P]

2 minutes ago, LexusIS300h said:

@Linas.P What I’m saying is that to me there is plenty power there, so it’s good for me. Prius is nippy too, it makes a Porsche look puny for at least 30 feet flooring it from traffic lights, looks of WTF from Porsche driver when it takes off 👍😂

Wow ... 

[ColinBarber]

35 minutes ago, Linas.P said:

 

And what the hell is "Smooth leather"? Does it mean standard car will have cardboard leather upholstery like BMW and MB?

The standard ES (base grade) doesn't have leather, it has the Tahara upholstery. The premium pack, for the base grade only, adds leather plus other items.

[ColinBarber]

42 minutes ago, Linas.P said:

Adaptive LED, BSM and RCTA are standard across the range in LSS+ in UK (on all cars except of CT). So either ES has lower standard equipment, which would go against Lexus promise (focusing on safety with LSS+) or these specs are US specs.

Don't let the fact that LSS+ doesn't include BSM and RCTA and aren't features on the lower grade IS, RC, or NX vehicles get in the way of your negative narrative.

[Martin J]

59 minutes ago, LexusIS300h said:

@Linas.P What I’m saying is that to me there is plenty power there, so it’s good for me. Prius is nippy too, it makes a Porsche look puny for at least 30 feet flooring it from traffic lights, looks of WTF from Porsche driver when it takes off 👍😂

As a former Prius owner I can vouch for this. When I got mine in 2005 I was amazed at how easy it was to leave hot hatchbacks standing at the lights. They'd pull alongside, and then appear to be snatched backwards as if on a giant elastic band as they attempted to change from 1st to 2nd..  Not that I made a habit of it, of course.  (Almost) full torque from zero revs is one of the nice features of the Toyota/Lexus hybrid system.

[Hangie]

45 minutes ago, ColinBarber said:

The standard ES (base grade) doesn't have leather, it has the Tahara upholstery. The premium pack, for the base grade only, adds leather plus other items.

The Takumi grade is available from £45,650 and includes the above features plus: 

- 18" alloys 
- Blind Spot Monitor, Intelligent Clearance Sonar, Rear Cross Traffic Alerts and Auto Brake 
- Automatic Boot Closer with Kick Sensor 
- Semi Aniline Leather & Electric Reclining Rear Seats 
- 12" Navigation with Mark Levinson Speakers 
- 3rd Zone Air Conditioning

 

Takumi offers nice semi aniline where premium pack adds standard leather.

[Jamesf1]

12 hours ago, Linas.P said:

To begin with... the packs makes no sense knowing how Lexus specifies cars in UK - are you sure these are not US specs converted into £ (As well car prices?)? e.g. Adaptive LED, BSM and RCTA are standard across the range in LSS+ in UK (on all cars except of CT). So either ES has lower standard equipment, which would go against Lexus promise (focusing on safety with LSS+) or these specs are US specs. Secondly, whole takumi thing doesn't make sense, currently you get ML + sunroof in Premier pack on IS/RC... meaning again that ES seems to be lower spec'ed to start.

And what the hell is "Smooth leather"? Does it mean standard car will have cardboard leather upholstery like BMW and MB?

@LexusIS300h - nice comparison  - "Performance is far superior to the Prius I had so I have no delusions about it being under powered. It isn’t.". So if car is more powerful then Prius.. that is pretty much end-off... that is it .. Prius is the golden standard of performance or what?! Are you saying any car more powerful then Prius is basically "powerful enough"😄

This info if from Lexus uk blog

[Hangie]

https://www.lexus.co.uk/car-models/es/#hero - at the bottom of the page all info is also there now.

[Linas.P]

50 minutes ago, Hangie said:

https://www.lexus.co.uk/car-models/es/#hero - at the bottom of the page all info is also there now.

I was genuinely asking as it doesn't make sense that new car will effectively have lower spec. then older models. 

@ColinBarber - it is not negative narrative. It is negative fact - LSS+ (or Lexus Safety System Plus) is precisely in the place to have all these safety features across the range  by default - that is not according to me, it is according to Lexus! You should not need to get Premium pack to get RTCA or BSM... especially when it is standard on IS, which is effectively lower class then ES. Again is nothing about my "negative narrative" - it is factually correct!

@Martin J and @LexusIS300h - I am really happy to see people living in the dreams, honestly don't want to shatter them - what a beautiful world "Prius takes on 'hot hatches' and 911's and wins from the lights"... adorable. Another day I have seen Bugatti parked, stopped by it, then accelerated with my IS250 and left that Bugatti "in dust"... I can attest that IS250 is faster then parked Bugatti with engine switched-off!

[Jamesf1]

Linus you really have no idea. Electric motors are 100% torque instantly. So yes upto 20-30 they are quick. A Nissan Leaf for example will do 0-30 like little else it really shifts

 

and why bother about Es pricing and specs your not going to buy one

[Linas.P]

ohhh.. I have no idea.. thanks for clarifying... It seems like I haven't driven Prius or IS300h... Furthermore, do not even start comparing it with Leaf because that is apples and oranges... Leaf is fully electric car with much stronger Battery an motors and it is completely different from hybrids.

Yes true - Prius have more low end torque then one would expect from 1.8L NA petrol... 300h has more instant torque from stand still then IS250.. true as well. But neither is nowhere near hot hatches, certainly not 911's. That small electric motor literally gives advantage is first 1 meter .... you can get half of the car in front of the other car.. that is all. not 30 feet and not up-to 20-30 miles.. now way!

Now again true - not every hot hatch, 911 or super car launches from the lights every time... so it is entirely possible that you launch from the lights quicker with Prius or whatever... but that is not because Prius has superior torque which gives it advantage for 30 feet. Lets be true and honest here - it is because other driver didn't bother to race you...

[st4]

The standard ES (base grade) doesn't have leather, it has the Tahara upholstery. The premium pack, for the base grade only, adds leather plus other items.

 

I’m going to go against the grain here and say I’m not a huge fan of leather seats and would be more than happy with non leather. So long as they’re heated and cooled with at least 8 way adjustable and memory is real nice to have.

 

 

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[Linas.P]

14 hours ago, ColinBarber said:

The standard ES (base grade) doesn't have leather, it has the Tahara upholstery. The premium pack, for the base grade only, adds leather plus other items.

Ok... so it is second only to CT to get this terrible fake leather upholstery? Didn't they say it will stretch imagination and expectations in it's class? How exactly, by replacing standard real leather (and usually very nice leather in Lexus) with material made from recycled bin bags? 

Trying to defend this is simply blind and futile attempt... ES is clearly step backwards not only from GS... but now seems as well even from IS... 

@st4 - I appreciate people might have different preferences, but my point here is that - leather is more expensive and more premium material then Tahara **** or even Alcantara ****...They might actually be sometimes nicer or even preferred by some, but it doesn't hide the fact they are cheaper. If that is reflected in the price of the car ... then I guess fine so be it, who want it they will buy, who don't will get leather, but that is not the case - IS is better equipped and has leather as standard and yet it is still cheaper! That doesn't make sense... 

[st4]

So I'll pay £5 more for an ES Takumi than a GS Premier? So much for the much-vaunted price reduction to account for the inferior platform. What do I get for that? Cheap materials, worse economy and pointless rear reclining seats instead of a useful passenger-seat ottoman? Seriously? Who the hell wants them in a car this size - it ain't a chauffeur-driven barge like the LS! And multi-weather headlights? Really, Lexus? Really? 
I bet it'll ride just as poorly as the GS on its stupid big wheels and have worse road noise as well, because they'll have cut the sound deadening to save costs. 
I predict they'll sell about two of these. One of which I might just buy in three year's time once some poor fool's taken a serious haircut on it. But it'll have to be a bargain, and it'll have to have a HUD, which isn't clear yet from the specs. 
 

I agree the platform is worse but

1. It will be more spacious than the GS. The S90 is used by chauffeurs and exec hire drivers. This could be too so the recliner seat might not be a bad idea
2. The GS rides well
3. Doubt they’ll cut the sound deadening


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[Jamesf1]

My GS rides very well.

[Jamesf1]

Where do you get this drivel

the “Much vaunted price reduction” was totally unsubstantiated speculation from some individuals based on the previous Es sitting between the is and Gs in non uk markets.

I bet it'll ride just as poorly as the GS on its stupid big wheels and have worse road noise as well, because they'll have cut the sound deadening to save costs. 

can you substantiate these claims?

also Trying to defend this is simply blind and futile attempt.

like your attempts to convince us that hybrids are rubbish and the new Es is rubbish and everything other than an 08 is250 is rubbish

And besides  Some don’t want leather for various reasons. feel, smell, moral or ethical

[Linas.P]

4 minutes ago, Jamesf1 said:

Where do you get this drivel

the “Much vaunted price reduction” was totally unsubstantiated speculation from some individuals based on the previous Es sitting between the is and Gs in non uk markets.

I bet it'll ride just as poorly as the GS on its stupid big wheels and have worse road noise as well, because they'll have cut the sound deadening to save costs. 

can you substantiate these claims?

Because that is where it sits to this day... It is inferiour model to GS - just a fact... some wishful souls hoped that it would at least be cheaper. Reality is that Lexus just going to replace one poorly selling car with other one which will be just as poorly selling + inferiour in any measurable way. Reason for ES selling well in US, is simply low price and brand recognition ... neither of which Lexus have or going to offer in UK. See no reason why anyone would consider it instead of say BMW 5-Series or more comparable WV Arteon.

As for poor ride quality - that is personal thing I guess, I don't think they have bad ride. Later GS'es tried to be more sporty, german like performance saloons, whereas author is probably more after old-style floating Lexus limousine like experience.

[Jamesf1]

3 minutes ago, Linas.P said:

Because that is where it sits to this day... It is inferiour model to GS - just a fact... some wishful souls hoped that it would at least be cheaper. Reality is that Lexus just going to replace one poorly selling car with other one which will be just as poorly selling + inferiour in any measurable way. Reason for ES selling well in US, is simply low price and brand recognition ... neither of which Lexus have or going to offer in UK. See no reason why anyone would consider it instead of say BMW 5-Series or more comparable WV Arteon.

As for poor ride quality - that is personal thing I guess, I don't think they have bad ride. Later GS'es tried to be more sporty, german like performance saloons, whereas author is probably more after old-style floating Lexus limousine like experience.

I’ll give you a reason - BMW not a patch on Lexus quality or reliability. As for a VW ha ha ha even worse. 

[Jamesf1]

Ok... so it is second only to CT to get this terrible fake leather upholstery

nope NX and IS have it also

[Jamesf1]

Because that is where it sits to this day... It is inferiour model to GS - just a fact.

actually it’s an opinion. From a non GS owner who hasn’t even seen an ES let alone sat or driven one.

[Linas.P]

17 minutes ago, Jamesf1 said:

Ok... so it is second only to CT to get this terrible fake leather upholstery

nope NX and IS have it also

You are right about NX, missed that.. which IS has it? I might be wrong, but google brings no results with "Tahara + IS".

As for inferiour to GS opinion vs. fact. Here is the thing, it is inferiour because of inferiour drive train, inferiour engine options, inferiour standard equipment, inferiour materials used inside (tahara)... that is not opinion - that is black and white facts in the public domain. We can have opinions on non-factual things like looks and feels, but I don't need to drive either of the cars to be able to say that FWD is inferiour to RWD or that Tahara is inferiour to Nappa (semi-aniline leather), or that car with standard RCTA and BSM is superiour to one without it.

Do we really need to clarify definition of what "opinion" or the "fact" means.

[Jamesf1]

Do we really need to clarify definition of what "opinion" or the "fact" means.

 

yes we do, as long as you try and pass your opinion as fact

[Linas.P]

Just now, Jamesf1 said:

yes we do, as long as you try and pass your opinion as fact

Can you point out where I am trying to pass my opinion as a fact?

Does ES have RTCA and BSM in standard equipment as GS?

Does ES have premium leather in standard equipment as GS?

Does ES have engine option like 450h as GS? and can it be ordered in RWD or at least AWD option?

Answer to all is - NO... and that is not opinion. 

[Bluesman]

Please keep it friendly gentlemen.

 

[Shahpor]

Considering that the majority of the last page of this thread is the two of you arguing, one or both of you really need to stop posting.  Either will do.