End of The GS in the UK

[dutchie01]

 

[Linas.P]

First time I have seen IS200t review... Now there are places where I agree and disagree with opinion.. as expected. But look at 7:27 - nobody can tell met thats nice sound - trash can on fire sounds better. 10:40 hesitation on start. And summary is what?! -  "it is boring car which never feels like it has any power!". Now he does not point gear hunting thing in this video (maybe because mostly he is in manual mode), but he mentions it in quite few other videos when comparing against older A960E 6 speed. Completely agree - it is smooth if you don't push it and you just cruising along, it has power if you in the right RPM.. never said otherwise. Problem for me Obviously, I pushed it because it didn't felt powerful at all and I got all that terrible noise at high revs.. all the time. So all in all nothing new I didn't already knew about the car... but thanks for posting.

 

Again, IS350 - whereas for 200t he had some criticism for 350 there are none... yes "it has more potential then Lexus tuned it for" ( wow.. hardly a criticism): 

 

[mpls]

Look at the IS200t video again  5:40 to 6:20

it doesn't feel fast.. because it is so smooth, that's the gist of his message.. it is picking up speed and looking at the speedo confirms this as he says..

Ket point, it;s not a track car..

Quite the opposite of what you are saying it seems..

[Linas.P]

He said it is both positive and negative... "it never feels powerful, but it smooth and comfortable... yet almost boring"...  - "ohhh cool that is what I always wanted with turbo car - for it to be boring!". I never said it is not fast as it would be factually incorrect, what I always said it  doesn't feels fast!

Again what he means by "smooth", probably "flat" torque curve.. which is not exactly desirable in my books - it is otherwise known as "flat spot", except on IS200t it is not a spot, but whole range - what you actually want is lineally increasing power and torque... and watch the video and listen to that horrible sound again.. He even specifically said - "you cannot hear the engine sound" - yes indeed, because it is not sound ... it is "noise".

[st4]

I’d be ok with the 200t but I’d be wrong to say I wouldn’t want the 3.5

 

Edit just me or do they both look like they could do with more underbody protection?

 

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[doog442]

2 hours ago, Linas.P said:

First time I have seen IS200t review...

LOL 😉. You've been quoting the same few negatives that have cropped up in a select few  IS200t reviews almost word for word and I read them all before making my purchase. 

You admit you haven't driven 90% of the Lexus fleet yet claim to know about them all. Strangely you claim you read  reviews on all  but negated to study the car you choose to hate.

 

 

[doog442]

43 minutes ago, st4 said:

I’d be ok with the 200t but I’d be wrong to say I wouldn’t want the 3.5


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To be fair I would have gone for the 350 if it was here and its probably the only thing Linas and me agree upon, However it isn't here so I did a back to back with the IS250 and IS200t over numerous test drives and decided, without doubt the IS200t was a better all round drive . I left a straight six Lexus, to go to a straight six BMW with a turbo to come back to a 4 pot turbo that does everything better than the previous cars and with newer tech. It was a no brainer. 

That said I'm itching for an RCF now so lets see what happens. I've had two years of brilliant ownership, as  a daily driver its spot on.  

 

[Vlady]

18 hours ago, Linas.P said:

That is nothing to do with forum - idiots drives all sorts of cars!

If I understood your scenario correctly, then it is called "merge in turn", which is completely legal, but as you said people get upset and defensive about it... not because BMW or other more powerful cars drivers are doing something wrong or dangerous, but because other drivers simply don't know the rules. Secondly, I believe drives in all makes and models does that, but Premium makes like BMW, MB, Audi sticks out more... people won't notice some rust bucket, but if it is nice and shiny premium car they notice it and sub-consciously are probably jealous . Or it is just prejudice that "oh another BMW pilot flying past" even though there is no fault of BMW driver in that situation.

Yesterday, I had exactly same issue (I am driving BMW now) there were 2 lanes merging and it was other lane which has to merge into mine, I let the long van to merge in front of me already and then there were another guy with some rust-bucket cutting me off, preventing me from zip merging even thought technically I was simply continuing on my lane and he was the one to merge. My point - he noted brand new shine BMW going past him in the left lane, because left was going faster as right lane had to merge-in .. and he probably  thought "oh yet another BMW driver undertaking, I am not going to let him in"... again didn't even realise it was actually my right of way!

Other common issue - you will always find some rust bucket in outside lane on motorway doing 65MPH and not moving over. They doing it deliberately and illegally, because they actually have false perception of the rules - "I don't need to move over if I am doing the limit" or " no need to be speeding".. In reality any right lane is for overtaking only and no matter what speed you doing you must move over (lane discipline is unbelievably poor in UK). Then obviously, there is no other way but to blink few times and eventually undertake, because nobody have time to reeducate these people, BUT if you ask them then they would paint totally opposite picture - "those BMW drivers always flying past at 'dangerous speeds', flashing me and then dangerously undertaking"... that would be their perspective of the circumstances. They imagine themselves as some sort of heroes, police wanabe volunteers etc. Whereas in reality, they are the ones braking the rules and creating dangerous situations. 

Linas I agree with you here on all points as it happened to me a FEW times, be it merging or outside lane (even middle) lane slow moving! 

[rayaans]

14 hours ago, Linas.P said:

First time I have seen IS200t review... Now there are places where I agree and disagree with opinion.. as expected. But look at 7:27 - nobody can tell met thats nice sound - trash can on fire sounds better. 10:40 hesitation on start. And summary is what?! -  "it is boring car which never feels like it has any power!". Now he does not point gear hunting thing in this video (maybe because mostly he is in manual mode), but he mentions it in quite few other videos when comparing against older A960E 6 speed. Completely agree - it is smooth if you don't push it and you just cruising along, it has power if you in the right RPM.. never said otherwise. Problem for me Obviously, I pushed it because it didn't felt powerful at all and I got all that terrible noise at high revs.. all the time. So all in all nothing new I didn't already knew about the car... but thanks for posting.

 

Again, IS350 - whereas for 200t he had some criticism for 350 there are none... yes "it has more potential then Lexus tuned it for" ( wow.. hardly a criticism): 

The hesitation is definitely there from a standstill and I felt that too which I posted in my review of the IS200t back when it came out. 

The noise which sounds like a lamb dying is the ASC - just turn it off. Its exactly the same as in the 300h. 

The tuning company which I took my son's Golf to says they can remap the 200t to 280hp which should be plenty and change the gearbox mapping as well.

[Linas.P]

Interesting.... well, to be honest any turbo engine can be remapped unlike N/A where you need to change rods, shafts, skim heads (physically replace the parts) etc.. So I would not be surprised if IS200t would have more potential.

@doog442 I agree that IS200t is better car then mk2 IS250, but it is like saying - "I am stronger then 5 years old" of course you are - it is 2005 car, as well at what price?! When it comes between mk3 IS250 and IS200t, you probably right - latter is better of two, but when it comes to upgrade from mk2, then my perspective if completely different. 

[spacenase]

"Pure petrol versions will also be available in ES 200 and ES 250 forms, but these are expected to make up a tiny proportion of sales in Britain, where Lexus customers tend to opt for its electrified models."

This is from a new Autocar article. Does this change anyone's opinion of the ES?

 

 

[dutchie01]

for me not really. what im interested in is a head to head comparison of the ES and the new Camry. What will be the price difference and if considerable, will the Camry eat the ES for breakfast?

[Jamesf1]

No because we are getting only the hybrid, which would be my choice anyway

[Jamesf1]

GRADE	ON-THE-ROAD PRICE	CORE EQUIPMENT FEATURES
Lexus ES	£35,150	Second-generation Lexus Safety System+, 17-inch alloy wheels, Lexus Navigation with eight-inch central display, DAB, parking sensors, heated and power-adjustable front seats, sunroof, Tahara upholstery
Lexus ES F Sport	£38,150	F Sport interior and exterior styling details, 19-inch alloys, F Sport seats, adaptive sports suspension
Lexus ES Takumi	£45,650	Power boot lid with hands-free kick sensor, heated and power-reclining rear seats, 12.3-inch display, Mark Levinson premium surround sound audio, 360-degree camera, triple-zone air conditioning, triple-eye LED multi-weather headlights with Adaptive High-beam System and Adaptive Front-lighting System

[Jamesf1]

GRADE	OPTION	PRICE	ADDITIONAL EQUIPMENT
Lexus ES	Premium Pack	£3,500	Smooth leather seat upholstery, front seat ventilation, power rear screen sunshade, triple-LED multi-weather headlights with Adaptive High-beam System, 18-inch alloys, Blind Spot Monitor, Rear Cross Traffic Alert with automatic braking
Lexus ES F Sport	Tech and Safety Pack	£700	Triple-LED multi-weather headlights with Adaptive High-beam System, wireless device charger, heated steering wheel
Lexus ES F Sport	Takumi Pack	£4,000	All elements of Tech and Safety Pack plus: Mark Levinson surround sound audio, head-up display, Lexus Premium Navigation with 12.3-inch screen, power rear screen sunshade, power boot lid with hands-free kick sensor
All grades	Metallic paint	£670
All grades	Premium metallic paint	£920	Sonic White, Sonic Titanium and Azure Blue finishes

[spacenase]

The 8 inch displays on the base ES and the F-Sport is a bit rubbish, but the F-Sport with the Takumi pack might be worth a look at £3k cheaper than the Takumi model.

I'm disappointed that Lexus are jumping on the higher price premium paint bandwagon. I think it's a complete rip-off from all of the manufacturers that do it.

 

 

[ColinBarber]

46 minutes ago, spacenase said:

I'm disappointed that Lexus are jumping on the higher price premium paint bandwagon. I think it's a complete rip-off from all of the manufacturers that do it.

Costs more to paint them so the consumer should pay more. The alternative is the cost is hidden in the base price and someone who just wants a solid colour pays more than they should.

[spacenase]

14 minutes ago, ColinBarber said:

Costs more to paint them so the consumer should pay more. The alternative is the cost is hidden in the base price and someone who just wants a solid colour pays more than they should.

If that's true then you are correct, but I find it difficult to believe that one solid colour costs more to apply than another and the same applies to different metallic and pearlescent colours. I'd be very surprised if there they are not taking advantage of a marketing opportunity to charge more for colours they think will be popular and make a bigger profit out of them.

 

 

[ColinBarber]

Quote

The usual paint job for a car is made up of three layers: a base to prevent rust, the colour coat and a clear coat for protection against wear. The sonic technology allowed Lexus to develop a paint job with five layers. Colour would come from three components – a dense, ultra-thin top layer of white with microscopic mica chips (which reflect and let light through), a pearl mica middle layer and a thick layer of white below.

http://blog.lexus.co.uk/paint-job-inside-lexus-paint-lab/

 

[rayaans]

£35150 starting price which is cheaper than the cheapest 520i.

60.1mpg on the new cycle which isn't bad.

Pricing is cheaper than most spec for spec

[st4]

"Pure petrol versions will also be available in ES 200 and ES 250 forms, but these are expected to make up a tiny proportion of sales in Britain, where Lexus customers tend to opt for its electrified models."
This is from a new Autocar article. Does this change anyone's opinion of the ES?
 
 

I’m interested in the pure petrol versions.


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[ColinBarber]

There will be no petrol version in the UK. Autocar are wrong. Lexus' press release states:

Quote

Available from January 2019, the UK range will feature the ES 300h, powered by a new self-charging hybrid system. ES 200, ES 250 and ES 350 petrol engine models will be available in certain other European markets from September 2018. 

I think it is Russia that will get the petrol versions.

[Ten Ninety]

So I'll pay £5 more for an ES Takumi than a GS Premier? So much for the much-vaunted price reduction to account for the inferior platform. What do I get for that? Cheap materials, worse economy and pointless rear reclining seats instead of a useful passenger-seat ottoman? Seriously? Who the hell wants them in a car this size - it ain't a chauffeur-driven barge like the LS! And multi-weather headlights? Really, Lexus? Really? 

I bet it'll ride just as poorly as the GS on its stupid big wheels and have worse road noise as well, because they'll have cut the sound deadening to save costs. 

I predict they'll sell about two of these. One of which I might just buy in three year's time once some poor fool's taken a serious haircut on it. But it'll have to be a bargain, and it'll have to have a HUD, which isn't clear yet from the specs. 

 

[LexusIS300h]

I have waded through all 27 pages of this topic and off topic commentary, as I wanted to know what the GS would be replaced with. The ES styling looks just fine, but as just mentioned I wouldn’t buy a new one now, maybe in 2 or 3 years.

Or maybe not. I have just bought an IS300h and I am very happy with it. Performance is far superior to the Prius I had so I have no delusions about it being under powered. It isn’t.

While recently dropping it in for a free service, I spent the waiting time looking round the showroom offerings and sat in the GS300h and quite liked it. Indeed I was in 2minds to try and swap mine and a bit of cash for one. However, sanity prevailed and I didn’t, but I left with the feeling that the GS would be my next step up. Reading it was being discontinued was a bit of a bummer, so I hoped it’s replacement might match it, but reading the posts and seeing the reviews, it is likely to be a step backward.

i don’t need a 3 or 3.5 litre non hybrid motor, I want supreme comfort, reliability and a stress free ride, which the Lexus hybrid really delivers. So I think my current solution will be to buy a 2018 GS 300h in a few years time, or maybe “man up” to the NX low hybrid mpg and swallow my hypermiling pride. 

Interestingly I used to own a Camry years ago overseas and it was a really good car, solidly built and bullet proof reliability. I’m glad to see it’s making a comeback in the UK and if push comes to shove, I could be tempted to get one of those instead. Yes, fickle, I know 😂

[Linas.P]

On 9/19/2018 at 12:16 PM, Jamesf1 said:

GRADE	OPTION	PRICE	ADDITIONAL EQUIPMENT
Lexus ES	Premium Pack	£3,500	Smooth leather seat upholstery, front seat ventilation, power rear screen sunshade, triple-LED multi-weather headlights with Adaptive High-beam System, 18-inch alloys, Blind Spot Monitor, Rear Cross Traffic Alert with automatic braking

To begin with... the packs makes no sense knowing how Lexus specifies cars in UK - are you sure these are not US specs converted into £ (As well car prices?)? e.g. Adaptive LED, BSM and RCTA are standard across the range in LSS+ in UK (on all cars except of CT). So either ES has lower standard equipment, which would go against Lexus promise (focusing on safety with LSS+) or these specs are US specs. Secondly, whole takumi thing doesn't make sense, currently you get ML + sunroof in Premier pack on IS/RC... meaning again that ES seems to be lower spec'ed to start.

And what the hell is "Smooth leather"? Does it mean standard car will have cardboard leather upholstery like BMW and MB?

@LexusIS300h - nice comparison  - "Performance is far superior to the Prius I had so I have no delusions about it being under powered. It isn’t.". So if car is more powerful then Prius.. that is pretty much end-off... that is it .. Prius is the golden standard of performance or what?! Are you saying any car more powerful then Prius is basically "powerful enough"😄