End of The GS in the UK

[st4]

There's a small feature in this month's CAR magazine that features the RC300h. The reviewer hates it, basically because it's too slow. So Linas is not alone in his opinion. I wouldn't disagree myself either, to be honest. The 300h drivetrain is many things, but fast is not one of them. It's not sharp or responsive either, so 'sluggish' is probably not a bad description. But for me, that's fine. For me, the 300h shouldn't be fast, sharp or responsive. It should be a nice relaxing, smooth way to cruise around in comfort.

When it comes to the issue of being slow or 'sluggish' I'm intrigued to know where the CAR journalists (and Linas) are finding roads where they can actually enjoy driving quickly, at least in the normal day-to-day business of going from one place to another. These days, on the very rare occasions when I do wish to press on, within minutes I inevitably encounter a fully paid-up member of the Anti Destination League at the head of a queue doing 35 in a 60. I can still totally get the idea of a fast sports car that you get up at 5am to enjoy, but I'm less and less able to wrap my head around the purpose of owning a fast car that is used in daily traffic. Everyone's different and there's no wrong or right, but getting rid of the 450h seems perfectly logical in a market which is surely inversely proportional to the amount of traffic on our roads?

 

Maybe because I do what I do for a living but I’m on the roads in the middle of the night, small hours and early to mid morning and driving fast is easy, and good and right to do.

 

Up in the NW of Scotland the opportunity to drive and enjoying driving is alive and well and the GS250 is a great car to have, but I wish I had the GSF. One day maybe :)

 

 

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[Linas.P]

I don't see how me finding suitable car is relevant here? Is that going to make 300h a better engine option for RC? what that has to do with GS being discontinued? Finally, even when I get suitable car - what makes you think I stop criticising 300h?

[Jamesf1]

10 minutes ago, Linas.P said:

again, when I need you opinion what suits me I will ask - don't worry. Just very quickly - what is wrong with Focus ST. It is FWD (~mostly), it has small volume turbo engine, it is hatchback, it is not a premium or luxury car, it is Ford... and probably few other issues. Why you trying to guess what I like?

RC350 would be fine, fast luxury car - that is what I need.

@noby76 - you are the other one who cannot grasp with the question at hand. The topic is about GS being discontinued - yes there are all sorts of used cars.. it is irrelevant. Going forward you will have single type of engine and it will be 300h... that is IS300h, ES300h, RC300h... what if I don't want used car? 

Cos your driving style sounds boy racer, hence my suggestion. But don’t worry I’ve cracked it S3!!!!!!!

[rayaans]

1 minute ago, Linas.P said:

I don't see how me finding suitable car is relevant here? Is that going to make 300h a better engine option for RC? what that has to do with GS being discontinued? Finally, even when I get suitable car - what makes you think I stop criticising 300h?

Its not relevant.

And neither is your bickering on every single thread about the 300h. 

Say it once and call it a day, no need to keep going on and on and on and on and on.......

Its pathetic, childish, and nobody cares.

[Linas.P]

@rayaans - I disagree, 300h is very relevant- because that is the only engine option we will have going forward bar "F", LS and RX.. if you don't car nobody forces to accept or object to it.

@Jamesf1 My driving style is my own business as long as I stay within the rules or rather get fined by police - nowhere in the rulebooks it says how long it has to take for you to reach speed limit... 

Your guesses would almost be funny if you at least try... which part of S3 is coupe? nevermind FWD (mostly) or front biased AWD... 

[st4]

Cos your driving style sounds boy racer, hence my suggestion. But don’t worry I’ve cracked it S3!!!!!!!

Transverse engine. Yuck.

Bmw 140i :)

Or get a gs450h or GSF/RCF. Fast and properly nice car.

I still think not doing the 350 engine in the RC and IS is a mistake.


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[rayaans]

2 minutes ago, Linas.P said:

@rayaans - I disagree, 300h is very relevant- because that is the only engine option we will have going forward bar "F", LS and RX.. if you don't car nobody forces to accept or object to it.

@Jamesf1 My driving style is my own business as long as I stay within the rules - nowhere in the rulebooks it says how long it has to take for you to reach speed limit... 

Your guesses would almost be funny if you at least try... which part of S3 is coupe? nevermind FWD (mostly) or front biased AWD... 

And nothing is going to change no matter how many times you bicker about it on a forum.

The vast majority of owners on this forum don't care about your opinion. 

And neither do Lexus

[Linas.P]

1 minute ago, rayaans said:

And nothing is going to change no matter how many times you bicker about it on a forum.

The vast majority of owners on this forum don't care about your opinion. 

And neither do Lexus

Ar you now officially elected representative of the sluggish 300h owners club? Congrats.. 

just to remind you, this is public forum and people have opinion here - some will agree some will disagree, this meant to be this way. If you get offended nobody forces you to read - pull the internet cable out and go read a book!

[st4]

And nothing is going to change....

And neither do Lexus

 

And nothing will change but that doesn’t mean it shouldn’t change. Lexus market share is bigger in the US not because they’re so different to us - but the range is more diverse over there.

 

Lexus want to be taken seriously and that means in the premium car market offering a range of engines within a model.

 

The RC is crying out for something in between the 300h and F - be that a more powerful 200t, a 350 or a 450h - and maybe a manual transmission offering. The 200t engine is a little behind on the power/economy curve but with a little development it could be a very credible offering in a junior performance offering - a bit like a c43/S5 etc - or a turbo V6 or the engine from the upcoming supra.

 

Why they have not done an ISF defies logic and why that car - as it’s class leading in other regards hasn’t seen a 350 or improved 200t seems most odd.

 

The RX is crying out for a non hybrid as is the NX.

 

Perhaps if the CT had been offered as a non hybrid more would have found homes. It’s not such a bad car - just hopelessly different and out of touch with most buyers wants and needs.

 

 

 

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[noby76]

29 minutes ago, Linas.P said:

 

@noby76 - you are the other one who cannot grasp with the question at hand. The topic is about GS being discontinued - yes there are all sorts of used cars.. it is irrelevant. Going forward you will have single type of engine and it will be 300h... that is IS300h, ES300h, RC300h... what if I don't want used car? 

my grasp of the question is 100%... it has been discontinued. nothing you can do to bring it back.. is like crying over spilled milk...so only option if you want a high powered GS is to go 'used'.. which is not a bad thing as it puts more money in your pocket but that's another topic on its own for another day.. and if Lexus does not have the spec in term of performance or trim, just go somewhere else where its offered.. there is always a trade off in someway shape of form with every car brand one goes for anyway..

[st4]

my grasp of the question is 100%... it has been discontinued. nothing you can do to bring it back.. is like crying over spilled milk...so only option if you want a high powered GS is to go 'used'.. which is not a bad thing as it puts more money in your pocket but that's another topic on its own for another day.. and if Lexus does not have the spec in term of performance or trim, just go somewhere else where its offered.. there is always a trade off in someway shape of form with every car brand one goes for anyway..

For Linas I think the Kia 3.3 Stinger - it’s very much on my radar too


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[Linas.P]

nah... I found the car ugly - just my opinion obviously. Secondly, I am not brand snob and not one of those fan boys making BMW ****** on Audi symbols - but Kia is of the scales of my brand approval. maybe in 30 years time their image is going to change and then who knows... 

edit: ohh and I want 2 doors as well... Now you may question what I am doing here "mourning" about death of GS, but I have explained it previously. GS450h was hope for me to see 450h in other models like IS450h or RC450h as some sort of mid range competitors for C43, BMW 440, S4/S5 and filling that gap between 300h and "F", but now with discontinuation of GS that is certainly of the cards and I am ****** off...  

[st4]

nah... I found the car ugly - just my opinion obviously. Secondly, I am not brand snob and not one of those fan boys making BMW ****** on Audi symbols - but Kia is of the scales of my brand approval. maybe in 30 years time their image is going to change and then who knows... 

edit: ohh and I want 2 doors as well... Now you may question what I am doing here "mourning" about death of GS, but I have explained it previously. GS450h was hope for me to see 450h in other models like IS450h or RC450h as some sort of mid range competitors for C43, BMW 440, S4/S5 and filling that gap between 300h and "F", but now with discontinuation of GS that is certainly of the cards and I am ****** off...  

Just buy an RCF and be happy. There’s nothing not to like about one of those


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[Linas.P]

6 minutes ago, st4 said:

Just buy an RCF and be happy. There’s nothing not to like about one of those

 

I would agree in general... however as explained previously, with RC-F you get into "performance car ownership issues" - not practical daily, expensive repairs, unreasonable fuel consumtion etc. We just getting into same discussion. Yes I want something faster then RC300h, but yet I don't want something as fast as RC-F - there is the gaping hole in the Lexus line-up and I guess we can agree on this? 

[Jamesf1]

430 that’s your answer. 

Rwd coupe good performance daily use friendly. 

[Zotto]

Just for who is curious about sluggyness:

http://www.zeperfs.com/it/duel1342-6211.htm

[dutchie01]

21 minutes ago, Zotto said:

Just for who is curious about sluggyness:

http://www.zeperfs.com/it/duel1342-6211.htm

No need to defend Zotto i guess all here do know the IS250 2nd generation was a sluggish car with almost no performance below 4000 rpm. It was refined and without vibration but was seriously lacking torque and overall speed was average at best. ( which was propably a good thing as the brakes and steering had trouble keeping up). I owned one for 4 years.

the Battery in the IS/Rc gives a kick in the butt from standstill and makes the car feel seriously faster up to 80kmh. I owned one for 3 years.

 

 

[st4]

I would agree in general... however as explained previously, with RC-F you get into "performance car ownership issues" - not practical daily, expensive repairs, unreasonable fuel consumtion etc. We just getting into same discussion. Yes I want something faster then RC300h, but yet I don't want something as fast as RC-F - there is the gaping hole in the Lexus line-up and I guess we can agree on this? 

There is a gaping hole but you’re better with a car that’s over powered rather than under powered.

In size wise it’s no less practical than an RC300h - arguably more so as it’s got a bigger boot due to not having the hybrid Battery.

The v8 engine and gearbox in that car is extremely reliable - google issues with the ISF and there’s just so few. The fuel consumption and servicing costs will be more but you are getting a premium performance car in return.


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[Ten Ninety]

14 hours ago, st4 said:

Maybe because I do what I do for a living but I’m on the roads in the middle of the night, small hours and early to mid morning and driving fast is easy, and good and right to do.

Up in the NW of Scotland the opportunity to drive and enjoying driving is alive and well and the GS250 is a great car to have, but I wish I had the GSF. One day maybe 🙂

Fair enough, but you are surely the edgiest of edge cases - someone who drives outside of normal hours in one of the most sparsely-populated parts of the country! I know I've said that I believe Lexus should be a niche brand, but even I'd suggest that catering to such a negligibly small market would be going a bit far.

13 hours ago, st4 said:

And nothing will change but that doesn’t mean it shouldn’t change. Lexus market share is bigger in the US not because they’re so different to us - but the range is more diverse over there.

Lexus want to be taken seriously and that means in the premium car market offering a range of engines within a model.

The RC is crying out for something in between the 300h and F - be that a more powerful 200t, a 350 or a 450h - and maybe a manual transmission offering. The 200t engine is a little behind on the power/economy curve but with a little development it could be a very credible offering in a junior performance offering - a bit like a c43/S5 etc - or a turbo V6 or the engine from the upcoming supra.

Why they have not done an ISF defies logic and why that car - as it’s class leading in other regards hasn’t seen a 350 or improved 200t seems most odd.

The RX is crying out for a non hybrid as is the NX.

Perhaps if the CT had been offered as a non hybrid more would have found homes. It’s not such a bad car - just hopelessly different and out of touch with most buyers wants and needs.

If Lexus did a RC350 in this country, the comically out-of-touch motoring press would love it and rave about how much better it was to drive than the 300h and then literally nobody would buy one. Well, maybe not nobody. Maybe a handful of brave souls from the tiny (and diminishing) band of ageing 'enthusiasts' who still care about things like number of cylinders, throttle response and the ability to overtake 'safely' would stump up the cash. At least, those who weren't dissuaded by the lack of a German badge, the prospect of terrible running costs and the guarantee of absolutely catastrophic depreciation. 

I don't think hybrid drivetrains are the reason people are put off from buying a Lexus - if anything it's probably been their unique selling point in recent years. If the hybrid-only CT was so hopelessly different and out of touch, why was it Lexus's biggest seller following its introduction? It's only recently been surpassed by the on-trend NX, also in hybrid form. If people really wanted non-hybrid Lexuses, why did the 200ts sell so poorly? 

Like it or not, with diesel's long-overdue death finally underway, hybridisation (in its various forms) is the short-term future until we transition to EVs. I would suggest that Lexus might be better off capitalising on all those years of expertise and pushing their hybrid technology just as it's gaining mainstream acceptance, rather than wasting resources on trying to flog cars with antiquated old engines to an ever-shrinking bunch of die-hards. 

[Vlady]

11 hours ago, st4 said:

 

There is a gaping hole but you’re better with a car that’s over powered rather than under powered.
 

 

Couldn't agree more! In my opinion it is actually safer even in day to day driving.

[rayaans]

16 hours ago, Linas.P said:

Ar you now officially elected representative of the sluggish 300h owners club? Congrats.. 

just to remind you, this is public forum and people have opinion here - some will agree some will disagree, this meant to be this way. If you get offended nobody forces you to read - pull the internet cable out and go read a book!

Yes, just like how you're the elected representatives of Oh my IS250 hits 0-60mph in 7s club 🤣 

My problem is not with your opinion, i couldn't give a toss.

My problem is that you keep posting the same old trash on every single thread about any 300h and even 200t and convince yourself that your 250 is better and if anyone disagrees with you, you write an essay of irrelevant crap trying to back up your opinion and force it amongst others.

Do us all a favour and go to the BMW forum and be amongst others of your own kind because frankly you've exhausted this thread and forum. Yet, I know you'll still reply with an essay of drivel because you just. can't. stop. 

[gdh300]

2 hours ago, Ten Ninety said:

If Lexus did a RC350 in this country, the comically out-of-touch motoring press would love it and rave about how much better it was to drive than the 300h and then literally nobody would buy one. Well, maybe not nobody. Maybe a handful of brave souls from the tiny (and diminishing) band of ageing 'enthusiasts' who still care about things like number of cylinders, throttle response and the ability to overtake 'safely' would stump up the cash. At least, those who weren't dissuaded by the lack of a German badge, the prospect of terrible running costs and the guarantee of absolutely catastrophic depreciation.

Absolutely!

Lexus marketing is very cautious in the UK, but understandable given their tiny market share. Compare this to be befuddling niche-laden ranges of Audi and BMW... 

[ColinBarber]

On 8/17/2018 at 1:04 PM, Zotto said:

Where have you found that data Colin? 😀

https://newsroom.toyota.co.jp/en/powertrain/engine

 

[ColinBarber]

18 hours ago, st4 said:

The RX is crying out for a non hybrid as is the NX.

No they aren't. They both had one a couple of years ago, nobody wanted it so Lexus dropped it. Lexus' whole marketing in the UK is based around being a hybrid company. If you want an RX type vehicle with a non-hybrid drivetrain then you aren't the customer Lexus is looking for.

[Jamesf1]

1 minute ago, ColinBarber said:

No they aren't. They both had one a couple of years ago, nobody wanted it so Lexus dropped it. Lexus' whole marketing in the UK is based around being a hybrid company. If you want an RX type vehicle with a non-hybrid drivetrain then you aren't the customer Lexus is looking for.

Exactly. Last time I looked a whopping 2 RX 200T’s had been registered in the UK. The market for Lexus non hybrid engines is just non existent in the uk because of their hybrids, because they are miles ahead of the opposition. Look at the 3 German brands their hybrids are tiny niche cars of their ranges. These engines sell in the US and Far East because their fuel is so much cheaper. I filled a 75 litre tank in Florida last year for £40. Here it’s over £80. So the gaps that some seem to think exist simply don’t. Look at any 200t model that was offered in the uk IS, RT,  NX, RX. The hybrids out sold them massively. My final point is Toyota are the second biggest car maker in the world. They know how to sell cars in vast numbers all over the world. They know better than you!!!!!