End of The GS in the UK

[rayaans]

35 minutes ago, Martin J said:

I thought that the ES300h A25A-FXS engine was a new direct injection design to go with the TNGA platform, or whatever Lexus call their implementation of it. Presumably this engine will make its way into the next NX. On the ES performance data, I'd be happy with the kind of figures being quoted. But I would like to see the NX's E-four AWD system as an option for the ES.

Yes it is, its the new engine with reduced friction or something so will definitely be more efficient than the outgoing GS is. 

The ES has a central tunnel. It might be for other markets but AWD is definitely coming 

[Hangie]

1 hour ago, Linas.P said:

Yes but Prius got brand new engine, with brand new electric motor and upgraded batteries, whereas I believe ES300h just uses same engine as GS300h... I agree we probably should wait for official figures.  

- 

I've already shared it but to remind you that ES got official figures in some countries in EU as above and I would be very surprised if for UK anything will change in that respect.

 

0-62mph in 8.9

CO2 - from 106

average mpg 60.1

 

 

[ColinBarber]

56 minutes ago, Zotto said:

GS engine has a 38.5 % of thermal efficiency at the top of gasoline  solutions

Maybe not quite the top given the ES hybrid engine has a 41% efficiency rating.

[Zotto]

Where have you found that data Colin? 😀

[Linas.P]

23 hours ago, Zotto said:

To all people who say GS is slow, my only suggestion is to try it, and if they like fast cars, try a GS 450h. Besides,  GS engine has a 38.5 % of thermal efficiency at the top of gasoline  solutions; when giving a look to performance it should be interesting to see also about real life mpg that other cars have. ES will have a better 0-60 mainly because it is lighter. About Vlady's question "why two" I don't know, but  it's so, as I read from ES specs, but I suspect it's a "asian" habit because I experimented the same difference in many Hyundai I had.

It is enough to try IS300h which is much more common. It is the same engine as in GS, just lighter and faster car... so if IS300h feels sluggish - there are no reason to even bother trying GS which is slower.

As you know GS450h is no longer a thing and that is exactly why I am making big fuss of Lexus discontinuing GS. This means we won't see any other car in the range with 450h - which was the only reasonable engine option in UK.

[Zotto]

The point is : Is a GS 300h more than sufficient to drive in comfort in nowadays traffic? I had a GS 450h before, and yes, it is really fast, but all that power is somewhat unnecessary, like many other cars, and if the purpose is to say "I drive a car with 0-60 in 5 seconds" ok, choose some other car, if the purpose is to live cocooned inside a car get a Lexus without worrying about how many hp has, because it has all the power it needs to move satisfactorily.

[Jamesf1]

2 minutes ago, Zotto said:

The point is : Is a GS 300h more than sufficient to drive in comfort in nowadays traffic? I had a GS 450h before, and yes, it is really fast, but all that power is somewhat unnecessary, like many other cars, and if the purpose is to say "I drive a car with 0-60 in 5 seconds" ok, choose some other car, if the purpose is to live cocooned inside a car get a Lexus without worrying about how many hp has, because it has all the power it needs to move satisfactorily.

Well said. That’s the point in this class of car. 

[rayaans]

1 hour ago, Linas.P said:

It is enough to try IS300h which is much more common. It is the same engine as in GS, just lighter and faster car... so if IS300h feels sluggish - there are no reason to even bother trying GS which is slower.

As you know GS450h is no longer a thing and that is exactly why I am making big fuss of Lexus discontinuing GS. This means we won't see any other car in the range with 450h - which was the only reasonable engine option in UK.

Lol IS300h is sluggish. Hahahaha 😂😂🤣😆🤷‍♂️ 

I hate driving our sluggish IS300h. It's so sluggish that sometimes I feel I should have bought an IS250 😂

[Linas.P]

16 hours ago, rayaans said:

Lol IS300h is sluggish. Hahahaha 😂😂🤣😆🤷‍♂️ 

I hate driving our sluggish IS300h. It's so sluggish that sometimes I feel I should have bought an IS250 😂

Here it goes again ... this is my opinion, you don't need to agree with it, but it doesn't make it less or more correct. Deal with it!

If I would not thing anything 300h sluggish, I would have bought RC300h 2 years ago... BUT it is so sluggish it is actually deal breaker for me, is not not a little bit sluggish like IS250 it is terrible.

17 hours ago, Zotto said:

ok, choose some other car, 

That is exactly my point... what other car?! the problem is that there are no "other cars" in Lexus line-up, Lexus line-up is now like Ford model T - "you can have any engine as long as it is 300h".. 

[Jamesf1]

1 minute ago, Linas.P said:

Here it goes again ... this is my opinion, you don't need to agree with it, but it doesn't make it less or more correct. Deal with it!

If I would not thing anything 300h sluggish, I would have bought RC300h 2 years ago... BUT it is so sluggish it is actually deal breaker for me, is not not a little bit sluggish like IS250 it is terrible.

That is exactly my point... what other car?! the problem is that there are no "other cars" in Lexus line-up, Lexus line-up is now like Ford model T - "you can have any engine as long as it is 300h".. 

That’s not strictly true as the current IS can be had with v6 or turbo used, RC as turbo used

[Linas.P]

In this topic we are talking about GS450h being discontinued, so it is about future, not about present day and certainly not about past.. As such your argument is invalid.

Yes you right, you can get 2013-2014 IS250, which is by the way more sluggish then already little sluggish mk2 (I have mentioned in previous threads that a single issue I have with IS250 is that it is not fast enough), you can get very rare IS200t which is strange combination neither fast nor fuel efficient (hello Doog!) or even more sluggish IS300h. That is pretty poor choice... 

However, if you rock-up into Lexus dealership today (or certainly in future), the only choice you get is 300h.. 

[noby76]

21 pages later, and i can't believe  most have not realised there are  still IS's and GS's on the market with 400bhp and 340bhp which has all the power one needs on these roads.  One also has the freedom to go for another brand if these two models are not sufficient for power needs. Seriously, this is getting OLD now.. 

[dutchie01]

Linas the world is bigger than Lexus. I do understand your position as i was in thesame spot recently. My IS had to go and i wanted an SUV type so went fir the NX. However i did not like the drive too slow so my only option would be to go for another brand which i did with a volvo xc40t5. 

Will i come back to lexus one day? Yes for sure as they can offer me what i am looking for. I like the brand and the image.

it makes no sense to complain about this or that months in row just buy another brand that offers what you want.

 

 

 

[Jamesf1]

50 minutes ago, Linas.P said:

In this topic we are talking about GS450h being discontinued, so it is about future, not about present day and certainly not about past.. As such your argument is invalid.

Yes you right, you can get 2013-2014 IS250, which is by the way more sluggish then already little sluggish mk2 (I have mentioned in previous threads that a single issue I have with IS250 is that it is not fast enough), you can get very rare IS200t which is strange combination neither fast nor fuel efficient (hello Doog!) or even more sluggish IS300h. That is pretty poor choice... 

However, if you rock-up into Lexus dealership today (or certainly in future), the only choice you get is 300h.. 

just get a 328 and have done with it

[rayaans]

2 minutes ago, Jamesf1 said:

just get a 328 and have done with it

And then he'll complain its a 4 pot and BMW reliability is rubbish. 

You know when you get one of those people at work who are negative about everything......

[Ten Ninety]

There's a small feature in this month's CAR magazine that features the RC300h. The reviewer hates it, basically because it's too slow. So Linas is not alone in his opinion. I wouldn't disagree myself either, to be honest. The 300h drivetrain is many things, but fast is not one of them. It's not sharp or responsive either, so 'sluggish' is probably not a bad description. But for me, that's fine. For me, the 300h shouldn't be fast, sharp or responsive. It should be a nice relaxing, smooth way to cruise around in comfort.

When it comes to the issue of being slow or 'sluggish' I'm intrigued to know where the CAR journalists (and Linas) are finding roads where they can actually enjoy driving quickly, at least in the normal day-to-day business of going from one place to another. These days, on the very rare occasions when I do wish to press on, within minutes I inevitably encounter a fully paid-up member of the Anti Destination League at the head of a queue doing 35 in a 60. I can still totally get the idea of a fast sports car that you get up at 5am to enjoy, but I'm less and less able to wrap my head around the purpose of owning a fast car that is used in daily traffic. Everyone's different and there's no wrong or right, but getting rid of the 450h seems perfectly logical in a market which is surely inversely proportional to the amount of traffic on our roads?

[noby76]

34 minutes ago, Ten Ninety said:

 The 300h drivetrain is many things, but fast is not one of them. It's not sharp or responsive either, so 'sluggish' is probably not a bad description. But for me, that's fine. For me, the 300h shouldn't be fast, sharp or responsive. It should be a nice relaxing, smooth way to cruise around in comfort.

 

Which is what most complaining is slow are forgetting to grasp. it was not designed and sold as a high performance saloon by lexus... The GS450h was more along those lines

[Linas.P]

47 minutes ago, Ten Ninety said:

I'm intrigued to know where the CAR journalists (and Linas) are finding roads where they can actually enjoy driving quickly, at least in the normal day-to-day business

60-70MPH is plenty fast enough, as well I often have to overtake people just do 40, then slowdowns to 30 in any slightest bend in "national limit (60)" A-roads and that very quickly infuriates me. Overtaking with IS250 is already sketchy as many corners in UK are overgrown and blind, with 300h that is sketchy on whole new level. Other thing which is kind of key for me is 0-40MPH acceleration as I like to be in front of the queue at traffic lights - again some lights are adjusted to turn green for literally few seconds and only 4 cars get's trough... when somebody fails to "launch" from the light that is again infuriates me. You get the picture - I am easily infuriated... and I don't mean just a little bit I literally get enraged at slow drivers a sleep behind the wheel..  

Other times - I always accelerate hard onto slip roads leading to motorway, I always launch for traffic lights and 300h is just not good for it, especially bad from stand still.

Now, originally I said that I liked RC300h in A/B roads and that is true - for leisurely driving on quite roads it works quite well. Car is low, wide, weight is low down with batteries, seating position is very good and comfortable, steering even though not very communicative is direct and precise and eCVT is lovely - the fake gear changes on manual mode are quick and almost mechanical. However,  in UK you will rarely find the road where you are alone on it - I was driving late at night and I was almost alone on the road, my average speed was 60 (which is the limit), but I was driving with the "flow" of road, so actual speed was between 50-70... during the day in same road I woudl have encountered multiple zombies doing 40 on that road and I woudl not have been comfortable overtaking in RC300h.

Overall, it looks like very fast car, but fails to deliver miserably. 

@rayaans/ @Jamesf1 the talk is about Lexus here, I can buy another make or I can buy RC-F, but my opinion about 300h would not change - it is not about the car I have, it is about what 300h is and what I think about it. When I want your advise on what should I buy I will let you know!

@noby76 GS450h... no more! Whats now?

[noby76]

@Linas.Pi can see at least 20 GS450h's from 2013 -2018 in difference shades and spec on autotrader at the moment... i would like to think thats plenty for someone who is interested..

[Jamesf1]

13 minutes ago, Linas.P said:

60-70MPH is plenty fast enough, as well I often have to overtake people just do 40, then slowdowns to 30 in any slightest bend in "national limit (60)" A-roads and that very quickly infuriates me. Overtaking with IS250 is already sketchy as many corners in UK are overgrown and blind, with 300h that is sketchy on whole new level. Other thing which is kind of key for me is 0-40MPH acceleration as I like to be in front of the queue at traffic lights - again some lights are adjusted to turn green for literally few seconds and only 4 cars get's trough... when somebody fails to "launch" from the light that is again infuriates me. You get the picture - I am easily infuriated... and I don't mean just a little bit I literally get enraged at slow drivers a sleep behind the wheel..  

Other times - I always accelerate hard onto slip roads leading to motorway, I always launch for traffic lights and 300h is just not good for it, especially bad from stand still.

Now, originally I said that I liked RC300h in A/B roads and that is true - for leisurely driving on quite roads it works quite well. Car is low, wide, weight is low down with batteries, seating position is very good and comfortable, steering even though not very communicative is direct and precise and eCVT is lovely - the fake gear changes on manual mode are quick and almost mechanical. However,  in UK you will rarely find the road where you are alone on it - I was driving late at night and I was almost alone on the road, my average speed was 60 (which is the limit), but I was driving with the "flow" of road, so actual speed was between 50-70... during the day in same road I woudl have encountered multiple zombies doing 40 on that road and I woudl not have been comfortable overtaking in RC300h.

Overall, it looks like very fast car, but fails to deliver miserably. 

@rayaans/ @Jamesf1 the talk is about Lexus here, I can buy another make or I can buy RC-F, but my opinion about 300h would not change - it is not about the car I have, it is about what 300h is and what I think about it. When I want your advise on what should I buy I will let you know!

@noby76 GS450h... no more! Whats now?

Why on earth did you buy a 250? Focus ST sounds a better car for you

[noby76]

2 minutes ago, Jamesf1 said:

Why on earth did you buy a 250? Focus ST sounds a better car for you

Apparantly Focus ST is not a 6 pot , is FWD and not Premium so wont cut it 😄

[Linas.P]

2 minutes ago, Jamesf1 said:

Why on earth did you buy a 250? Focus ST sounds a better car for you

again, when I need you opinion what suits me I will ask - don't worry. Just very quickly - what is wrong with Focus ST. It is FWD (~mostly), it has small volume turbo engine, it is hatchback, it is not a premium or luxury car, it is Ford... and probably few other issues. Why you trying to guess what I like?

RC350 would be fine, fast luxury car - that is what I need.

@noby76 - you are the other one who cannot grasp with the question at hand. The topic is about GS being discontinued - yes there are all sorts of used cars.. it is irrelevant. Going forward you will have single type of engine and it will be 300h... that is IS300h, ES300h, RC300h... what if I don't want used car? 

[rayaans]

25 minutes ago, Linas.P said:

 

@rayaans/ @Jamesf1 the talk is about Lexus here, I can buy another make or I can buy RC-F, but my opinion about 300h would not change - it is not about the car I have, it is about what 300h is and what I think about it. When I want your advise on what should I buy I will let you know!

 

Stop complaining and put your money where your mouth is then...?

[Linas.P]

2 minutes ago, rayaans said:

Stop complaining and put your money where your mouth is then...?

Who are you to tell me where to put my money? I will put my money when I found suitable car or when I compromise on something. It is not like I cannot have opinion about something if I don't own car better then yours... This is not d*** measuring exercise. If you can objectively prove me wrong - go ahead, if not then our subjective opinions are equally good..

[rayaans]

2 minutes ago, Linas.P said:

Who are you to tell me where to put my money? I will put my money when I found suitable car or when I compromise on something. It is not like I cannot have opinion about something if I don't own car better then yours... 

At this rate, you won't find a suitable car until you're in a coffin.

Pick a car, negotiate and buy it, its not difficult.

You're like an 18 year old kid with their A-level results and not knowing what they want to do in life... 😂

Atleast then we'll have some peace on this forum