End of The GS in the UK

[Vlady]

On ‎7‎/‎28‎/‎2018 at 7:30 PM, Jamesf1 said:

Well the GS is staying. My dogs have way chilled out and now behave really well in the back of my car. Decided in that case to stick with the Lexus 👍

James I thought you should get the Mazda shortly? What happened?

[Jamesf1]

3 hours ago, Vlady said:

James I thought you should get the Mazda shortly? What happened?

Basically dont feel the need for an estate anymore. That was the only reason to sell the Lexus. Once I decided I didn’t need it then didn’t want to sell the GS.

[mpls]

Anyone see the review of the ES in Autoexpress ?

 

http://www.autoexpress.co.uk/lexus/es/103684/new-lexus-es-2018-review?_mout=1&utm_campaign=autoexpressvideo_newsletter&utm_medium=email&utm_source=newsletter

 

Not that I'm after one.. Just thought that some might be..

[rayaans]

30 minutes ago, mpls said:

Anyone see the review of the ES in Autoexpress ?

 

http://www.autoexpress.co.uk/lexus/es/103684/new-lexus-es-2018-review?_mout=1&utm_campaign=autoexpressvideo_newsletter&utm_medium=email&utm_source=newsletter

 

Not that I'm after one.. Just thought that some might be..

Interesting review which essentially builds on their last one which was quite bad.

Looks positive though and like a good cruiser. Would be interesting to see the prices.

I presume the F Sport "High grade" that they refer to is actually the F Sport Premier Pack

[mpls]

12 hours ago, rayaans said:

Interesting review which essentially builds on their last one which was quite bad.

Looks positive though and like a good cruiser. Would be interesting to see the prices.

I presume the F Sport "High grade" that they refer to is actually the F Sport Premier Pack

Definitely should give A5/A6 a good run for it money..

The F sport trim looks good..

If they do an AWD that would defnietly be interesting but i doubt they'd do one  because of the SUV range,,

[Vlady]

16 hours ago, mpls said:

Anyone see the review of the ES in Autoexpress ?

 

http://www.autoexpress.co.uk/lexus/es/103684/new-lexus-es-2018-review?_mout=1&utm_campaign=autoexpressvideo_newsletter&utm_medium=email&utm_source=newsletter

 

Not that I'm after one.. Just thought that some might be..

Nope, not to my taste, dashboard design is weird, exterior design not great either and 8.9sec to get to 62mph?! I am sorry but this is slow, even BMW 518d probably will do better.

This is a Premium car (at least trying to replace one) and these numbers are not competitive, I think Lexus should try harder or give us more choices like bigger engine and All wheel drive with ES. 

When time comes I won't be buying one of these, RX for me (may be as not driven one yet) or a GS but newer to mine.

[rayaans]

1 hour ago, Vlady said:

Nope, not to my taste, dashboard design is weird, exterior design not great either and 8.9sec to get to 62mph?! I am sorry but this is slow, even BMW 518d probably will do better.

This is a Premium car (at least trying to replace one) and these numbers are not competitive, I think Lexus should try harder or give us more choices like bigger engine and All wheel drive with ES. 

When time comes I won't be buying one of these, RX for me (may be as not driven one yet) or a GS but newer to mine.

Looks better than the current GS to me. 

518d is 9.3s to 62mph. 

Lexus always gave people an option on the GS.... And what happened? They all bought 300h's. 

[Zotto]

I have booked a test drive for when ES 300h will be available here, but not so sure to change my GS300h...

About 0-63 times, alla Lexus (and also new ES) have times measure with TWO person aboard (driver and passenger), and this is the reason why real 0-63 are better; for instance , GS 300h has a 0-100 km/h given 9,2 seconds, and  usually obtains 8,5. So, ES 300h should give a real 0-100 in about 8,2 seconds. 

[Linas.P]

40 minutes ago, Zotto said:

I have booked a test drive for when ES 300h will be available here, but not so sure to change my GS300h...

About 0-63 times, alla Lexus (and also new ES) have times measure with TWO person aboard (driver and passenger), and this is the reason why real 0-63 are better; for instance , GS 300h has a 0-100 km/h given 9,2 seconds, and  usually obtains 8,5. So, ES 300h should give a real 0-100 in about 8,2 seconds. 

Even then it is unacceptably slow, BMW518d is not comparable car as it is half class above yet cheaper (cheapest of the type), but any car in similar price and range - say BMW 4-Series Grand coupe 420i will be faster. Finally, the point is not about 0-60, the point is about Lexus "not even trying"... 

[Vlady]

2 hours ago, rayaans said:

Looks better than the current GS to me. 

518d is 9.3s to 62mph. 

Lexus always gave people an option on the GS.... And what happened? They all bought 300h's. 

You are good with numbers, you should put as well that BMW has about 70bhp less and if we compare ES with 520i that has 30bhp (roughly) less and still takes 7.8 sec to get to 62mph.

Never mind, it was just an example (518d), I still think with 215bhp the car should be faster in 21st century.

[Vlady]

50 minutes ago, Zotto said:

I have booked a test drive for when ES 300h will be available here, but not so sure to change my GS300h...

About 0-63 times, alla Lexus (and also new ES) have times measure with TWO person aboard (driver and passenger), and this is the reason why real 0-63 are better; for instance , GS 300h has a 0-100 km/h given 9,2 seconds, and  usually obtains 8,5. So, ES 300h should give a real 0-100 in about 8,2 seconds. 

TWO on board? Never heard it, why would they do that or why other manufactures do it differently? Doesn't make sense to me.

[Ala Larj]

3 minutes ago, Vlady said:

You are good with numbers, you should put as well that BMW has about 70bhp less and if we compare ES with 520i that has 30bhp (roughly) less and still takes 7.8 sec to get to 62mph.

Never mind, it was just an example (518d), I still think with 215bhp the car should be faster in 21st century.

If only the roads were safe enough to do that! However, not all folk are interested in drag racing and prefer a safe and sedate journey. Overtaking times are more important in the real world. 

[st4]

I too think it’ll be too slow. It’s fine for a Camry because that’s just a big family motor but something that’s got pretence at being a luxury/premium product needs to have a bit more go in it - if only to give a more effortless wafty drive.

At least it’ll be refined. A 520d is remarkably unrefined, you’d excuse it in a car like a Superb, or Mondeo but not in an expensive/premium product. The ES will have a big advantage in its segment as most PCP/company car pay monthly pilots buy these cars with the most dreadful engine type to ever grace a car - the 4 cylinder diesel - and I should know I stupidly bought two 4 pot diesel high end cars only to have a fright when my next door neighbors avensis 1.8 petrol was considerably more refined


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[Ten Ninety]

So, it's too slow for the fastards and not economical enough for the slowtards like me.

Seriously, how can it be worse on the NEDC than the outgoing GS? 60.1mpg and 106g/km are pretty pathetic figures, if that Auto Express article has them correct.

[Linas.P]

7 minutes ago, Ala Larj said:

If only the roads were safe enough to do that! However, not all folk are interested in drag racing and prefer a safe and sedate journey. Overtaking times are more important in the real world. 

And overtaking times are equally unacceptable, maybe slightly better then 0-60 ones, but still nowhere near what competitors offers (say same 420i GC) or nowhere near sufficient.

The reason 300h seems to be slow considering 215hp, is because it isn't 215hp - the engine makes ~170hp and that is exactly how the car feels, the electric motors mainly balanced for efficiency and it "doesn't feel" that they are helping acceleration, especially in higher speeds. So if you look at it as heavy car with underpowered and rather lazy engine - the 0-60 times starts to make sense.

4 minutes ago, Ten Ninety said:

So, it's too slow for the fastards and not economical enough for the slowtards like me.

Seriously, how can it be worse on the NEDC than the outgoing GS? 60.1mpg and 106g/km are pretty pathetic figures, if that Auto Express article has them correct.

Yep... the only way to improve on both fronts are to make it PHEV, but for no reason Lexus refuses to do so....

[rayaans]

19 minutes ago, Linas.P said:

Even then it is unacceptably slow, BMW518d is not comparable car as it is half class above yet cheaper (cheapest of the type), but any car in similar price and range - say BMW 4-Series Grand coupe 420i will be faster. Finally, the point is not about 0-60, the point is about Lexus "not even trying"... 

How do you know its cheaper? Did Lexus send you a price list in your dreams? Lexus don't need to try... they have an ES350 for other markets but its not coming to the UK.

12 minutes ago, Vlady said:

You are good with numbers, you should put as well that BMW has about 70bhp less and if we compare ES with 520i that has 30bhp (roughly) less and still takes 7.8 sec to get to 62mph.

Never mind, it was just an example (518d), I still think with 215bhp the car should be faster in 21st century.

Does it matter? If so you should have bought a 535i as it does 0-60mph in less than 5.6s....

If you've driven a Lexus hybrid, which you have, then you'd know that 1) the Lexus 0-60mph times are underrated as seen in Alex on Autos vids and 2) in real world driving, not drag racing, the mid range acceleration is where they are better.

[rayaans]

13 minutes ago, Ten Ninety said:

So, it's too slow for the fastards and not economical enough for the slowtards like me.

Seriously, how can it be worse on the NEDC than the outgoing GS? 60.1mpg and 106g/km are pretty pathetic figures, if that Auto Express article has them correct.

Its more efficient than the GS is. Autoexpress figures have been plucked out of the sky including the 0-60mph times etc. The article is riddled with inconsistencies including a torque figure.....😆😆

[Linas.P]

7 minutes ago, rayaans said:

1) How do you know its cheaper? Did Lexus send you a price list in your dreams?

2) Lexus don't need to try... they have an ES350 for other markets but its not coming to the UK.

3) If you've driven a Lexus hybrid, which you have, then you'd know that - the Lexus 0-60mph times are underrated as seen in Alex on Autos vids and

4) in real world driving, not drag racing, the mid range acceleration is where they are better.

1 - you are right here, I just assumed GS price for some reason and it is incorrect. Still would not compare it with 5-Series, rather 4-Series Grand Coupe, Audi A5 saloon.

2 - I don't live it those "other markets" so for me that is "not even trying"... either way in fact - in one way, because they don't offer 350 in UK, second way because 300h is so slow.

3 - yes Lexus underrates acceleration by negligible margin.. say 0.2-0.4s, still they are in different ball park from competitors where the difference is in several whole seconds.

4 - you mean it "sucks less"... no why it is "better".

[Ten Ninety]

17 minutes ago, Linas.P said:

Yep... the only way to improve on both fronts are to make it PHEV, but for no reason Lexus refuses to do so....

Toyota made considerable gains with the Prius efficiency from Gen3 to Gen4 without resorting to plug-in stuff, so I was kind of hoping Lexus might do something similar with the 300h. 

However, I will reserve my judgement until the official figures, given Rayaan's suggestion about the inaccuracy of Auto Express above.

[Linas.P]

1 minute ago, Ten Ninety said:

Toyota made considerable gains with the Prius efficiency from Gen3 to Gen4 without resorting to plug-in stuff, so I was kind of hoping Lexus might do something similar with the 300h. 

However, I will reserve my judgement until the official figures, given Rayaan's suggestion about the inaccuracy of Auto Express above.

Yes but Prius got brand new engine, with brand new electric motor and upgraded batteries, whereas I believe ES300h just uses same engine as GS300h... I agree we probably should wait for official figures.  

[doog442]

29 minutes ago, Linas.P said:

3 - yes Lexus underrates acceleration by negligible margin.. say 0.2-0.4s, still they are in different ball park from competitors where the difference is in several whole seconds.

 

Apart from your IS250 of course which you previously claimed is one second faster than the official figures 😉

[Linas.P]

Just now, doog442 said:

Apart from your IS250 of course which you previously claimed is one second faster than the official figures 😉

let's get this straight. IS250 0-62mhp is 8.2s, which is 0-60 ~8.0s and realistically ~7.6s (I did ODB2+GPS run in that time)... so kind of 0.4s. There were others who claimed it can do it in 7.0s, but I never was one of those - no it can't!

[Martin J]

I thought that the ES300h A25A-FXS engine was a new direct injection design to go with the TNGA platform, or whatever Lexus call their implementation of it. Presumably this engine will make its way into the next NX. On the ES performance data, I'd be happy with the kind of figures being quoted. But I would like to see the NX's E-four AWD system as an option for the ES.

[doog442]

6 minutes ago, Linas.P said:

let's get this straight. IS250 0-62mhp is 8.2s, which is 0-60 ~8.0s and realistically ~7.6s (I did ODB2+GPS run in that time)... so kind of 0.4s. There were others who claimed it can do it in 7.0s, but I never was one of those - no it can't!

Nah mate. You said the official was 8.4 and you had done it in 7.4..

You cant move the goalposts when you simply feel like it..

If we were to apply your logic to the ES then it brings it within what some people (a minority ) might deem an acceptable standard.  I doubt most potential buyers would really care. 

[Zotto]

To all people who say GS is slow, my only suggestion is to try it, and if they like fast cars, try a GS 450h. Besides,  GS engine has a 38.5 % of thermal efficiency at the top of gasoline  solutions; when giving a look to performance it should be interesting to see also about real life mpg that other cars have. ES will have a better 0-60 mainly because it is lighter. About Vlady's question "why two" I don't know, but  it's so, as I read from ES specs, but I suspect it's a "asian" habit because I experimented the same difference in many Hyundai I had.