End of The GS in the UK

[Linas.P]

5 minutes ago, Ala Larj said:

The 300 satisfies my needs perfectly.

You can buy horse with the cart if that satisfies you... and don't get me wrong it is none of my problem - it is your money and you can buy whatever you like. However, do say that "x car is not better then y, because you happy with the horse".. that is not the way to compare things.

@Jamesf1 - what that suppose to mean? Are you saying that I cannot visit Lexus forum and discuss Lexus cars unless my opinion is always positive and politically correct to promote Lexus? What is this .. North Korea?

[Ala Larj]

From what I've seen so far I'd be happy with one to replace my GS in about five years time. My decision will be made subjectively!

[Jamesf1]

3 minutes ago, Linas.P said:

You can buy horse with the cart if that satisfies you... and don't get me wrong it is none of my problem - it is your money and you can buy whatever you like. However, do say that "x car is not better then y, because you happy with the horse".. that is not the way to compare things.

Good well that’s clear then 😆

[Ala Larj]

4 minutes ago, Linas.P said:

You can buy horse with the cart if that satisfies you... and don't get me wrong it is none of my problem - it is your money and you can buy whatever you like. However, do say that "x car is not better then y, because you happy with the horse".. that is not the way to compare things.

And of course your IS is better than anything else??? Objectively speaking!

[Linas.P]

3 minutes ago, Ala Larj said:

And of course your IS is better than anything else??? Objectively speaking!

Seriously?! where have I said that? Or you now know better then myself what I think?

Better value for money, likely... outright better then 10 years newer and 10 times more expensive car - that would be ridiculous!

[Ala Larj]

From what I've seen so far I'd be happy with one to replace my GS in about five years time. My decision will be made subjectively!

[Ala Larj]

5 minutes ago, Linas.P said:

Seriously?! where have I said that? Or you now know better then myself what I think?

Better value for money, likely... outright better then 10 years newer and 10 times more expensive car - that would be ridiculous!

Night night Trollas.P!

[spacenase]

5 hours ago, Linas.P said:

we have to judge on the objective facts. 

No, absolutely not. No one who test drives a car as a buyer or journalist judges it on the objective facts, they judge it on the subjective feel of the car and their own experiences and/or preferences of a brand or model or type of car. That's why people dismiss entire ranges of cars because of the badge on the front. It's also why even the boys on Top Gear or The Grand Tour don't always choose the car that objectively should be the best. Every car ever built is compromised in one way or another, it comes down to which compromises you're willing to live with. If the fact that the 0-60 time of the ES is slower than the 530e is not one you're willing to live with then that's your choice, but that choice is no more right or wrong than someone who does choose to live with it.

 

[Vlady]

I consider myself a badge snob (love BMW's) so when I was searching for a new car I never considered a GS, well, it has big petrol engine, heavy, not popular and while test driving other cars (after GS) I was doing my research and Lexus is comfy, plush inside, actually quite a looker, very reliable BUT hitting 62mph under 6 seconds was one of the factors I like about the car even if I use it 20% of the time. I like quick acceleration or even just to make a quick maneuver and having this ability just makes driving safer, for the same reason I would not buy my wife a car that is slow but "economical", it can be not safe. 

For most people (people buying A-class 180d for example) acceleration does not matter but it does to me. Just saying.

[rich1068]

9 hours ago, Jamesf1 said:

Why all the stress on this thread. None of you have seen one or sat in one or driven one . Some clearly aren’t going to buy one so wtf? If you don’t like it don’t buy one. If you don’t agree with Toyota/Lexus corporate strategy buy into another brand. 

For God's sake man! Stop being so reasonable! This is a forum! If we can't go wildly off topic, speak with authority on something of which we have no experience and have arguments that we'd never have face to face then what the hell are we all doing here??

[Linas.P]

8 hours ago, spacenase said:

that choice is no more right or wrong than someone who does choose to live with it.

Fine...

Who is talking about choice, that is given - you will choose what you want and I will choose what I want. The point is that we can only discuss facts or at least some sort of objective opinions (or at least that is idealistic goal anyway). You are right to say that one fact is more important then other for you, but that doesn't mean that it is incorrect.

[Northern_Si]

So why did I buy a Lexus GS?

My previous car was a Mercedes W212 E-350CDI Sport.  It was mostly a cracking car.  Fast (6 seconds 0-60MPH), huge amounts of torque, economical (I once managed 60MPG on a trip from Bolton to Gosport ... but it wasn't difficult on a motorway run to get late 40's early 50's MPG), comfortable (I once did Bolton to Dijon only stopping for the tunnel) and it looked quite aggressive.  However it wasn't without fault... when I was changing it (4.5 years old, 85K Miles), it had a leak on the turbo seals and the DPF kept playing up and sending the car in limp mode.  On top of that it was in negative equity and MB customer service can be awful.

So, when I looked for a new car.... I considered downsizing to the MB C-Class but the sales staff at MB didn't have a clue.  BMW ignored me when I visited a showroom (Quite liked the 5 series at the time), Audi are just too expensive and Infinity had fantastic customer service but was let down by the product.  Lexus offered the best complete experience.

I wanted a car with similar characteristics to my E-Class but a bit different.  I looked at the 300H but felt it was too slow for me... a drop from 6 seconds to 9 second 0-60 was just too much when I'm spending £30k on a secondhand car.  The 450H offered the right balance of performance, economy, comfort while also being a little bit an alternative choice from the German marques.  Also being rare is a benefit to me.

So the ES ... for me the FWD/RWD argument is not as much of a problem these days.  Do I prefer to be pushed rather than pull round a bendy road... of course RWD is better.  But with all the modern electronics which are used o FWD cars these days I don't think the gap is that huge.  Saying that, Audi do go AWD on their more powerful models.  The problem for me is the engine size.  The 300H is just not powerful enough for a car which is supposed to be a direct replacement for the GS (Quoting Lexus).  I don't want to go back to diesel and the competitors non hybrid petrols are a little thirsty for the same performance.

Will my next car be a BMW/MB/Audi Hybrid... nope.  My understanding is that on paper they look great but with the 46L petrol tank and a massive drop in MPG when they charge the batteries on the move (I drive 20K miles a year) make them less economical to me than my 450H.  Also if I remember right, the 1.4T used in the Audi has insufficient power to charge the batteries on the move.

So either I will keep my GS for a few years or look at the RX450H.

[royoftherovers]

1 hour ago, Northern_Si said:

So why did I buy a Lexus GS?

My previous car was a Mercedes W212 E-350CDI Sport.  It was mostly a cracking car.  Fast (6 seconds 0-60MPH), huge amounts of torque, economical (I once managed 60MPG on a trip from Bolton to Gosport ... but it wasn't difficult on a motorway run to get late 40's early 50's MPG), comfortable (I once did Bolton to Dijon only stopping for the tunnel) and it looked quite aggressive.  However it wasn't without fault... when I was changing it (4.5 years old, 85K Miles), it had a leak on the turbo seals and the DPF kept playing up and sending the car in limp mode.  On top of that it was in negative equity and MB customer service can be awful.

So, when I looked for a new car.... I considered downsizing to the MB C-Class but the sales staff at MB didn't have a clue.  BMW ignored me when I visited a showroom (Quite liked the 5 series at the time), Audi are just too expensive and Infinity had fantastic customer service but was let down by the product.  Lexus offered the best complete experience.

I wanted a car with similar characteristics to my E-Class but a bit different.  I looked at the 300H but felt it was too slow for me... a drop from 6 seconds to 9 second 0-60 was just too much when I'm spending £30k on a secondhand car.  The 450H offered the right balance of performance, economy, comfort while also being a little bit an alternative choice from the German marques.  Also being rare is a benefit to me.

So the ES ... for me the FWD/RWD argument is not as much of a problem these days.  Do I prefer to be pushed rather than pull round a bendy road... of course RWD is better.  But with all the modern electronics which are used o FWD cars these days I don't think the gap is that huge.  Saying that, Audi do go AWD on their more powerful models.  The problem for me is the engine size.  The 300H is just not powerful enough for a car which is supposed to be a direct replacement for the GS (Quoting Lexus).  I don't want to go back to diesel and the competitors non hybrid petrols are a little thirsty for the same performance.

Will my next car be a BMW/MB/Audi Hybrid... nope.  My understanding is that on paper they look great but with the 46L petrol tank and a massive drop in MPG when they charge the batteries on the move (I drive 20K miles a year) make them less economical to me than my 450H.  Also if I remember right, the 1.4T used in the Audi has insufficient power to charge the batteries on the move.

So either I will keep my GS for a few years or look at the RX450H.

Nice post. Mirrors my own thoughts in the main.

Mercedes,Audi, BMW,are  not as reliable as they used to be perceived. Not as rare as they used to be and certainly not driven as respectfully as they used to be.

 I`ve had 4 Mercs and one Audi. Never again.

I`ve had my GS450h for 5 years now and nothing, repea, nothin,g has gone wrong. Lexus is the "numero uno" for reliability on the Planet. By being reliable it is also by definition economical as costs for repairs are excluded from the calculation.

No doubt young Executive twirps will acquire F Sport models whilst the B.I.K. remains favourable and respectful Lexus driving will go out of the window, but that is for the future and we who are really in the minority will continue to enjoy what still remains a closed secret. 

 

[rayaans]

4 hours ago, royoftherovers said:

Nice post. Mirrors my own thoughts in the main.

Mercedes,Audi, BMW,are  not as reliable as they used to be perceived. Not as rare as they used to be and certainly not driven as respectfully as they used to be.

 I`ve had 4 Mercs and one Audi. Never again.

I`ve had my GS450h for 5 years now and nothing, repea, nothin,g has gone wrong. Lexus is the "numero uno" for reliability on the Planet. By being reliable it is also by definition economical as costs for repairs are excluded from the calculation.

No doubt young Executive twirps will acquire F Sport models whilst the B.I.K. remains favourable and respectful Lexus driving will go out of the window, but that is for the future and we who are really in the minority will continue to enjoy what still remains a closed secret. 

 

I doubt it. 

Young executive twirps still tend to flock to Audi and BMW. Although more recently Ive noticed the standard of Merc drivers become ridiculously crap as well. 

[st4]

Why all the stress on this thread. None of you have seen one or sat in one or driven one . Some clearly aren’t going to buy one so wtf? If you don’t like it don’t buy one. If you don’t agree with Toyota/Lexus corporate strategy buy into another brand. 

I suspect people are sad as there’s no direct replacement for a car they like


Sent from my Iphone using Tapatalk

[rayaans]

4 hours ago, st4 said:

 

I suspect people are sad as there’s no direct replacement for a car they like


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

Yet, when we look at the figures, barely anyone bought them. Like seriously, on the forum I haven't seen a single facelifted GS yet which isn't a GS-F! 

On a side note - 

 

[st4]

Yet, when we look at the figures, barely anyone bought them. Like seriously, on the forum I haven't seen a single facelifted GS yet which isn't a GS-F! 
On a side note - 
 

But those who did liked them. Why would a transverse engined fwd saloon of the same price do better.

People still want diesels and cross overs. The range is still ahead of its time.


Sent from my Iphone using Tapatalk

[Linas.P]

On 6/13/2018 at 12:25 PM, royoftherovers said:

whilst the B.I.K. remains favourable and respectful Lexus

There are 2 main lest say "types":

1. Company schemes, where you loan the car from the company and pay from you gross salary for it.
2. Company owns the car and lets you use it (or you are owner of the company and just buy car as company asset).

Type 1 is ~95% of sales, type 2 is remaining 5% - and Lexus is no longer compliant for type 1 (not a single car in the range).

[rayaans]

36 minutes ago, st4 said:

 

But those who did liked them. Why would a transverse engined fwd saloon of the same price do better.

People still want diesels and cross overs. The range is still ahead of its time.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

The ES completely belittled GS sales though so I don't think the point was to make something that was better than the GS. Comfort is the strong point of the ES and so was value. Now we have a vehicle which is supposed to blend those together with a reasonably well handling and good looking vehicle. 

Im pretty sure the ES will be priced lower than the GS was and very close to the IS tbh

[ghost_killer]

26 minutes ago, rayaans said:

The ES completely belittled GS sales though so I don't think the point was to make something that was better than the GS. Comfort is the strong point of the ES and so was value. Now we have a vehicle which is supposed to blend those together with a reasonably well handling and good looking vehicle. 

Im pretty sure the ES will be priced lower than the GS was and very close to the IS tbh

The ES always been price lower than the GS in places where both models are sold like the US / Hong Kong / Aus so it shouldn't be priced more than the GS !!! Doubt Lexus be stupid enough to do something knowing they lose sales ! What I did read is that for now UK only be offered a ES300h ! It seems clear there won't be a ES350, they should at least make a ES350h or a ES400h as a replacement for the GS450h.....would been nice to upgrade (power wise) from my IS300h in few years time...

[rayaans]

33 minutes ago, ghost_killer said:

The ES always been price lower than the GS in places where both models are sold like the US / Hong Kong / Aus so it shouldn't be priced more than the GS !!! Doubt Lexus be stupid enough to do something knowing they lose sales ! What I did read is that for now UK only be offered a ES300h ! It seems clear there won't be a ES350, they should at least make a ES350h or a ES400h as a replacement for the GS450h.....would been nice to upgrade (power wise) from my IS300h in few years time...

The review I posted above, he did actually say the 300h has more useable low down power but feels less dynamic due to extra weight than the 350. 

However, I agree that a more powerful unit would be welcome. I really do think an ES-F will be on the cards with AWD 

[st4]

The ES completely belittled GS sales though so I don't think the point was to make something that was better than the GS. Comfort is the strong point of the ES and so was value. Now we have a vehicle which is supposed to blend those together with a reasonably well handling and good looking vehicle. 
Im pretty sure the ES will be priced lower than the GS was and very close to the IS tbh

There is another thread discussing the idea the IS might go.

I suspect it’s replacement will be a transverse engined fwd car, based on a smaller platform.

Grab these rear drivers whilst you can


Sent from my Iphone using Tapatalk

[rayaans]

11 hours ago, st4 said:

 

There is another thread discussing the idea the IS might go.

I suspect it’s replacement will be a transverse engined fwd car, based on a smaller platform.

Grab these rear drivers whilst you can


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

Yes but I dont think they have any reason to remove the IS

The GS was purely down to sales. The IS is a good seller, both in Europe and the States so unlikely they would remove it.

[dutchie01]

31 minutes ago, rayaans said:

Yes but I dont think they have any reason to remove the IS

The GS was purely down to sales. The IS is a good seller, both in Europe and the States so unlikely they would remove it.

Productplanning in automotive is at least 6 years ahead so if the saloonmarket keeps disappearing i sould not be surprised if they let it run out and thats it

[Linas.P]

14 minutes ago, dutchie01 said:

Productplanning in automotive is at least 6 years ahead so if the saloonmarket keeps disappearing i sould not be surprised if they let it run out and thats it

Just to be clear - I am not disagreeing with you on this one, but are you saying they have decided to phase out IS back in 2014? or you saying they made that decision this year, in which case it would mean we would still get IS mk4 and it will be phased out ~ 2024 without getting facelift (as mk3 won't last another 6 years, considering standard 8 year model life-time)?