End of The GS in the UK

[Jamesf1]

Review has appeared on Autocar.co.uk

[Ala Larj]

28 minutes ago, Jamesf1 said:

Review has appeared on Autocar.co.uk

This worries me:

Lexus has high standards to maintain on perceived cabin quality and luxury feel with its bigger saloons. For the most part, the ES measures up to them — although there were some places where our test car could have been made to look and feel more expensive.

You’ll find soft, smooth leathers on the ES’s seats and in places around its fascia, but its dashboard and doorcards more widely feature slush-moulded plastic masquerading as hide and in a few places they feature harder, shinier plastics.

The decorative centre console trim doesn’t quite match that of the steering wheel for grain and, as a whole, the car doesn’t have the imposing aura of richness, solidity and technological sophistication you’ll find in an A6 or E-Class.

[rayaans]

43 minutes ago, Ala Larj said:

This worries me:

Lexus has high standards to maintain on perceived cabin quality and luxury feel with its bigger saloons. For the most part, the ES measures up to them — although there were some places where our test car could have been made to look and feel more expensive.

You’ll find soft, smooth leathers on the ES’s seats and in places around its fascia, but its dashboard and doorcards more widely feature slush-moulded plastic masquerading as hide and in a few places they feature harder, shinier plastics.

The decorative centre console trim doesn’t quite match that of the steering wheel for grain and, as a whole, the car doesn’t have the imposing aura of richness, solidity and technological sophistication you’ll find in an A6 or E-Class.

They take the mick to be honest. Have you been in an E class?  There's cheap plastic everywhere. There's metal effect plastic buttons for gods sake.

The door cards are plastic but audi uses door pulls that are plastic yet nobody says anything. You have to pay £200-300 for a leather pack.

I didn't think the other cars come with leather dashboards either?  

Also we're talking about a bunch of idiots who said that the GS-F had an indecisive gearbox, scratchy plastics and switchgear from a bygone era 

[rayaans]

 

The only reviews that I bother watching nowadays

In terms of the interior, the moving bit is a bit wierd and I would assume that will almost certainly be fixed on production models. As for the materials, the lower doors are no different to a GS. These are all pre-production models. I remember when they tested the RX pre-production models in the US and they had a few trim pieces moving about and all sorts

Its quite funny when they say - "oh you do hear the engine when you floor it" - yet I heard very little.... or maybe Im going hard of hearing

Oh my, If I remember correctly,  didn't the RX win a test in Carwow against an X5 - that stirred things up in the comments lol

And it does burnouts!!

 

[mpls]

To be honest I think Lexus might me making a mistake.. why couldn;t they keep the rear wheek drive and do comfort or sporty across the GS by dping different tune of the hybrid system..  They need to learn a thing or two from the German's. The Germans have so  many tunes of engine.. from economy through to the M, AMG, S  etc..

With Lexus you only get a normal hybrid or  straight through to the Fs...  E.g. on my current IS, the next  level of performance isn't even availble on the IS, it's with the RCF..Surey Lexus can do  more with their hybrids ?

 

 

 

[Martin J]

17 minutes ago, mpls said:

To be honest I think Lexus might me making a mistake.. why couldn;t they keep the rear wheek drive and do comfort or sporty across the GS by dping different tune of the hybrid system..  They need to learn a thing or two from the German's. The Germans have so  many tunes of engine.. from economy through to the M, AMG, S  etc..

With Lexus you only get a normal hybrid or  straight through to the Fs...  E.g. on my current IS, the next  level of performance isn't even availble on the IS, it's with the RCF..Surey Lexus can do  more with their hybrids ?

 

 

 

I'm happy to do without a propeller shaft, but I agree that it's a shame Lexus doesn't offer a wider choice of powertrains in its models. We've had this discussion in relation to the non-existence of the NX450h; and the so far non-existent ES450h would also be an appealing package for private owners.  While sales volumes here mean that Lexus UK is unlikely to advocate for a more powerful hybrid option, I'm surprised that the V6 drivetrain to be offered in some ES markets isn't hybridised like the RX and GS 450h.

[mpls]

1 hour ago, Martin J said:

I'm happy to do without a propeller shaft, but I agree that it's a shame Lexus doesn't offer a wider choice of powertrains in its models. We've had this discussion in relation to the non-existence of the NX450h; and the so far non-existent ES450h would also be an appealing package for private owners.  While sales volumes here mean that Lexus UK is unlikely to advocate for a more powerful hybrid option, I'm surprised that the V6 drivetrain to be offered in some ES markets isn't hybridised like the RX and GS 450h.

Interesting.. how else are they to increase volumes but to increase the choices..

[rayaans]

2 minutes ago, mpls said:

Interesting.. how else are they to increase volumes but to increase the choices..

By going after fleet. 

Like they mentioned a few weeks back. Expect to see a Lexus hybrid in every car park now lol

[Jamesf1]

Choice does not equal volume. 

[rayaans]

Lots of reviews coming in - mostly positive. 

Alex on Autos has tested the cabin quietness and it appears to be marginally more noisy inside than an LS - which is quite good really. He also has quite a good detailed look around the cabin and the door cards don't look cheap at all. The trim looks fairly well made and the cabin looks fairly plush, especially with the two tone interior

[Ala Larj]

The carwow review mentions cheap plastics. It looks great though.

[talaipwros]

I saw one XE yesterday.

It looked beautiful on the hard shoulder with its Alarm lights flashing like joyful sparkles 

[Ten Ninety]

I could be wrong as I haven't been in one, but based on those videos, it looks to me like the ES is built to the lower level of Lexus quality i.e. using CT/IS/RC materials rather than GS standard. I actually like the design and style, and maybe some of the wood-based trims might be sufficiently distracting to not notice the material quality, but that red and grey interior in the Redline Reviews video just looks plain nasty to me, especially the grey plastics on the dash. 

I can't afford to buy or run an LS, LC or RX, which look to be the only Lexus models that may retain the higher-end materials, so I expect to be back in a Toyota next time. 

[rayaans]

23 hours ago, Ala Larj said:

The carwow review mentions cheap plastics. It looks great though.

At the lower  end of the dash, which is the same as the GS

43 minutes ago, Ten Ninety said:

I could be wrong as I haven't been in one, but based on those videos, it looks to me like the ES is built to the lower level of Lexus quality i.e. using CT/IS/RC materials rather than GS standard. I actually like the design and style, and maybe some of the wood-based trims might be sufficiently distracting to not notice the material quality, but that red and grey interior in the Redline Reviews video just looks plain nasty to me, especially the grey plastics on the dash. 

I can't afford to buy or run an LS, LC or RX, which look to be the only Lexus models that may retain the higher-end materials, so I expect to be back in a Toyota next time. 

From the pics, it looks exactly the same as the GS in terms of material quality to be honest

The GS dash is also plastic and the red/black interior is one that looks much better in person due to the difficulty in picturing the colour (hence why it seems to be one of the more popular colour options on the F-Sport trims).

This colour scheme may be more your style:

 

[Linas.P]

On 6/7/2018 at 9:26 PM, rayaans said:

By going after fleet. 

Like they mentioned a few weeks back. Expect to see a Lexus hybrid in every car park now lol

Can you explain me why would anyone choose Lexus as fleet car instead of PHEV German alternatives (and few other now)? What is key for fleet car is low tax/BIK, Lexus hybrid does not provide that. Lexus provides reliability, but that is last concern for fleet owners as they replace cars before warranty runs out and well before even cheapest French crap would start braking to pieces (~2-3 years). 

As for the choice vs. volumes... Choice makes make brand more popular, more popular brand will sell higher volumes, so choice indirectly improves sale volumes. The highest volumes will always be of boring cars like 300h, but it does not matter - to shift boring cars brand needs to have interesting cars and thus create positive brand image. There is too much disconnect between say RC300h and say RC-F, that RC-F becomes irrelevant in boosting sales. 

I am surprised Carwow doesn't know that the engine sound in ES300h is comming from the speakers, quite surprised with gearbox... I though artificial gears worked quite well on IS/RC300h, so I am surprised it doesn't work at all on new ES. 

[rayaans]

47 minutes ago, Linas.P said:

Can you explain me why would anyone choose Lexus as fleet car instead of PHEV German alternatives (and few other now)? What is key for fleet car is low tax/BIK, Lexus hybrid does not provide that. Lexus provides reliability, but that is last concern for fleet owners as they replace cars before warranty runs out and well before even cheapest French crap would start braking to pieces (~2-3 years). 

As for the choice vs. volumes... Choice makes make brand more popular, more popular brand will sell higher volumes, so choice indirectly improves sale volumes. The highest volumes will always be of boring cars like 300h, but it does not matter - to shift boring cars brand needs to have interesting cars and thus create positive brand image. There is too much disconnect between say RC300h and say RC-F, that RC-F becomes irrelevant in boosting sales. 

I am surprised Carwow doesn't know that the engine sound in ES300h is comming from the speakers, quite surprised with gearbox... I though artificial gears worked quite well on IS/RC300h, so I am surprised it doesn't work at all on new ES. 

You do realise that Lexus hybrids attract less tax than diesels though right, which, despite all the PHEV marketing, are still making up the majority of fleet sales

[Linas.P]

True, this year 4% were added on diesel BIK, but the difference is not massive e.g. BMW 520d BIK is 28% (was 24%), where GS300h BIK is 21%.... but BMW 530e BIK is 13%. So what the fleets going to do - they will go from diesel to PHEV and skip hybrids. It makes no sense what so ever that Lexus does not offer PHEVs.

To explain why most fleet cars are still diesel is quite simple, as previously mentioned fleet cars are replaced in 2-3 (sometimes 5 years cycles), so it will take 2-3 or 5 years for diesels to be phased out, because only major changes (which made diesels less attractive) were made in 2017 and 2018, we can expect to phase out diesels in fleets maybe by 2020-22. Not to mention that for say executive airport transfers or regional sale managers (people who do 30k miles a year on motorway) diesel makes much more sense, 520d will blow GS300h from the waters based on extra urban fuel consumtion. 

And finally... is again just brand loyalty and image. If you turn-up to pick up customer in Lexus, most going to think that you have some weird Toyota, whereas Audi, BMW and MB are accepted as executive transport in EU.

[Ten Ninety]

3 hours ago, rayaans said:

From the pics, it looks exactly the same as the GS in terms of material quality to be honest

The GS dash is also plastic and the red/black interior is one that looks much better in person due to the difficulty in picturing the colour (hence why it seems to be one of the more popular colour options on the F-Sport trims).

This colour scheme may be more your style:

That one does look a bit better. Thanks for posting. However, when he's doing the close up shots of the surrounds for the window switches, heater controls and gearlever, they all look notably worse than the GS to me, as does the plastic moulding either side of the instrument cowl i.e. just beneath the screen. They're all pretty visible, touchable surfaces. Who knows, maybe the GS would look just as cheap in the same lighting conditions, or maybe I'm just looking too hard for faults in a car I'm not going to buy. 

Regarding the F-Sport looking better in person, I've seen the current red/black scheme in an RC and I thought that was pretty nasty in real life, to be honest. Mind you, I don't understand F-Sport any more than I understand M-Sport or AMG-line, so I'm not qualified to comment on the appeal of red leather really! I'm a pensioner-spec Premier kind of guy.

[Linas.P]

3 minutes ago, Ten Ninety said:

That one does look a bit better. Thanks for posting. However, when he's doing the close up shots of the surrounds for the window switches, heater controls and gearlever, they all look notably worse than the GS to me, as does the plastic moulding either side of the instrument cowl i.e. just beneath the screen. They're all pretty visible, touchable surfaces. Who knows, maybe the GS would look just as cheap in the same lighting conditions, or maybe I'm just looking too hard for faults in a car I'm not going to buy. 

Regarding the F-Sport looking better in person, I've seen the current red/black scheme in an RC and I thought that was pretty nasty in real life, to be honest. Mind you, I don't understand F-Sport any more than I understand M-Sport or AMG-line, so I'm not qualified to comment on the appeal of red leather really! I'm a pensioner-spec Premier kind of guy.

You need to consider he is reviewing US car, in UK more premium car gets a bit o special treatment e.g. GS450h, GS-F, RC-F are better equipped standard then the ones in US. In US they have much more optional extras, more similar like German brands in UK. My point - his US ES might simply be not specified as well as standard GS in UK.

Not sure what you mean about red/black scheme in RC. I am not aware about such options (unless you mean red car and black interior or vice versa). Obviously, colour is very personal thing, but I like dark rose leather in RC300h, the red colour in RC-F is a bit flashy.

[royoftherovers]

1 hour ago, Linas.P said:

True, this year 4% were added on diesel BIK, but the difference is not massive e.g. BMW 520d BIK is 28% (was 24%), where GS300h BIK is 21%.... but BMW 530e BIK is 13%. So what the fleets going to do - they will go from diesel to PHEV and skip hybrids. It makes no sense what so ever that Lexus does not offer PHEVs.

To explain why most fleet cars are still diesel is quite simple, as previously mentioned fleet cars are replaced in 2-3 (sometimes 5 years cycles), so it will take 2-3 or 5 years for diesels to be phased out, because only major changes (which made diesels less attractive) were made in 2017 and 2018, we can expect to phase out diesels in fleets maybe by 2020-22. Not to mention that for say executive airport transfers or regional sale managers (people who do 30k miles a year on motorway) diesel makes much more sense, 520d will blow GS300h from the waters based on extra urban fuel consumtion. 

And finally... is again just brand loyalty and image. If you turn-up to pick up customer in Lexus, most going to think that you have some weird Toyota, whereas Audi, BMW and MB are accepted as executive transport in EU.

And finally... is again just brand loyalty and image. If you turn-up to pick up customer in Lexus, most going to think that you have some weird Toyota, whereas Audi, BMW and MB are accepted as executive transport in EU.

i`LL WAGER THAT 99% OF THE MOTORING FRATERNITY DO NOT KNOW THAT LEXUS IS TOYOTA!!

[Ten Ninety]

12 minutes ago, Linas.P said:

You need to consider he is reviewing US car, in UK more premium car gets a bit o special treatment e.g. GS450h, GS-F, RC-F are better equipped standard then the ones in US. In US they have much more optional extras, more similar like German brands in UK. My point - his US ES might simply be not specified as well as standard GS in UK.

Not sure what you mean about red/black scheme in RC. I am not aware about such options (unless you mean red car and black interior or vice versa). Obviously, colour is very personal thing, but I like dark rose leather in RC300h, the red colour in RC-F is a bit flashy.

That is a good point about these being US cars - are they made in a different factory to the ones we'll get in Europe? US market standards for interior quality are pathetically low.

Regarding red/black, I would suggest that one man's dark-rose is another man's red. I didn't like it at all but, as you say, it's a personal thing. Each to their own.

[Linas.P]

23 minutes ago, Ten Ninety said:

That is a good point about these being US cars - are they made in a different factory to the ones we'll get in Europe? US market standards for interior quality are pathetically low.

Regarding red/black, I would suggest that one man's dark-rose is another man's red. I didn't like it at all but, as you say, it's a personal thing. Each to their own.

ES is made in Kentucky (US), European model will be made there as well. However, I don't think that is the reason when it comes to GS (which was made in Japan) - simply manufacturers use different trim levels for different markets e.g. in Middle east the quality is even worse, cars don't have corrosion protection, engines have lower emission standards. In south Asia/China some have port injection instead of fuel injection etc. So I would not be surprised if interior quality would be significantly lower for US as americans simply don't know what interior build quality is.

As for the colour - yes indeed, however just to be clear you simply mean "dark rose" not half black/half red like in the review?

Rose:

Red/Black:

[royoftherovers]

1 hour ago, Linas.P said:

ES is made in Kentucky (US), European model will be made there as well. However, I don't think that is the reason when it comes to GS (which was made in Japan) - simply manufacturers use different trim levels for different markets e.g. in Middle east the quality is even worse, cars don't have corrosion protection, engines have lower emission standards. In south Asia/China some have port injection instead of fuel injection etc. So I would not be surprised if interior quality would be significantly lower for US as americans simply don't know what interior build quality is.

As for the colour - yes indeed, however just to be clear you simply mean "dark rose" not half black/half red like in the review?

Rose:

Red/Black:

MY UNDERSTANDING IS THAT UK IMPORTS OF ES WILL BE MADE IN JAPAN AS WERE GS IMPORTS.

[rayaans]

2 hours ago, Ten Ninety said:

That one does look a bit better. Thanks for posting. However, when he's doing the close up shots of the surrounds for the window switches, heater controls and gearlever, they all look notably worse than the GS to me, as does the plastic moulding either side of the instrument cowl i.e. just beneath the screen. They're all pretty visible, touchable surfaces. Who knows, maybe the GS would look just as cheap in the same lighting conditions, or maybe I'm just looking too hard for faults in a car I'm not going to buy. 

Regarding the F-Sport looking better in person, I've seen the current red/black scheme in an RC and I thought that was pretty nasty in real life, to be honest. Mind you, I don't understand F-Sport any more than I understand M-Sport or AMG-line, so I'm not qualified to comment on the appeal of red leather really! I'm a pensioner-spec Premier kind of guy.

Ah that's fair enough.  Most love the red leather when they see it in person, a real wow factor as its not something they'd expect.

The plastic around the switches is actually brushed and has grooves in it somewhat like aluminium. It's difficult to picture but is the same as the one in the UX. This was shown in an Autogefuhl first look where the reviewer actually loved it compared to piano black as it doesn't leave fingerprints.

[Linas.P]

1 hour ago, royoftherovers said:

MY UNDERSTANDING IS THAT UK IMPORTS OF ES WILL BE MADE IN JAPAN AS WERE GS IMPORTS.

You might be right, because new ES is on new platform. However, all old ES'es were made in US, because it is model designed based on US values and for US standards.