End of The GS in the UK

[ColinBarber]

26 minutes ago, Ala Larj said:

I agree. I don't know why they don't offer an IS450h.

It wouldn't sell. Lexus are really only interested in business owners who want low BIK. Anybody looking for a performance IS wouldn't want a hybrid, that is why the IS350 is sold in the US and not an IS450h. The UK will never offer more than two engine options, they don't have enough volume to warrant all of the costs certifying vehicles for Europe, sparing etc.

The current hybrid only options is down to the fact that they outsold petrol versions 10:1 and so things like the IS250 and IS200t were dropped.

[Linas.P]

2 hours ago, Ala Larj said:

I agree. I don't know why they don't offer an IS450h.

My theory goes - they didn't offer IS450h to leave some more room for GS450h and to avoid inter-brand competition. However, I cannot find the reasons why they didn't offer RC450h... RC was already Frankenstein of GS/IS platform, already ran 3.5l V6 very similar to GS450h, already had hybrid version.. so getting it from 300h to 450h would have added minimal effort and created quite interesting car. Then then everything gets even more convoluted considering pricing - standard RC was priced above, standard GS even though for me it is just 2 door IS. The RC-F was priced below GS-F, so pricing RC450h would have been logical disaster. So I assume Lexus tried avoiding IS450h/IS-F for gauging the sales of GS450h/GS-F and RC450h the RC-F. Obviously, in US IS/RC350 exists - decision to to offer them here was already discussed million times, I think that is stupid decision and cripples interest in the brand n long term, my dealer thinks there is no market for 350 (and so probably the Lexus).

[Linas.P]

2 hours ago, ColinBarber said:

only interested in business owners who want low BIK.

That maybe was the case, but unfortunately now with new BIK rules, none of the cars really qualifies. As such for example I cannot get any Lexus via my employer - Lexu simply missed the boat, not Co2 is limited to 75g and only way to comply is PHEV.

[ColinBarber]

15 minutes ago, Linas.P said:

Obviously, in US IS/RC350 exists - decision to to offer them here was already discussed million times, I think that is stupid decision and cripples interest in the brand n long term, my dealer thinks there is no market for 350 (and so probably the Lexus).

There is no meaningful market and it would be too expensive. Until the Japanese import tariffs into Europe are lowered/removed it wouldn't make sense.

It isn't cost effective to develop the IS450h, it wouldn't really sell in the US and European sales don't provide a return on investment on their own. The newer vehicle platforms make things easier to offer more choice - we will see with the UX and ES if their thinking as been altered.

[Linas.P]

Oh.. yes - I mean I completely agree and that is probably the reason why... but I have the view that to get reasonable ROI you have to invest in the market first. Now that might be right, might be wrong, but my opinion Lexus was keeping EU market on the shoe-string, providing only very limited choice and in long term limiting their market themselves.

In US they gone all in with all guns n' toys and became formidable competitor for BMW/MB - Audi actually lost all together and is pretty much absent. So if it took so much effort to conquer the niche in the new land, they have to try even harder in BMW/Audi/MB heartlands here, but for me it seems they not even trying. You cannot play football match with 5 players vs. 11, but that is what Lexus is doing here in my opinion. 

I completely agree that licensing and initially importing wide variety of models would bring terrible ROI, but in long therm they would establish themselves into major brand instead of weird niche they are now.

[Ten Ninety]

That ES posted above looks alright in the picture and video, but Lexus are very good at making things look good in pictures. They don't always translate into reality. The promo pics for the current ES don't look terrible but in reality it's a truly horrible, bland, cheap-looking thing.

I will reserve my judgement until I see one in a showroom and until the prices are revealed, although I doubt I'd go for one anyway as they won't do an ES200h!

[rayaans]

19 hours ago, Ten Ninety said:

That ES posted above looks alright in the picture and video, but Lexus are very good at making things look good in pictures. They don't always translate into reality. The promo pics for the current ES don't look terrible but in reality it's a truly horrible, bland, cheap-looking thing.

I will reserve my judgement until I see one in a showroom and until the prices are revealed, although I doubt I'd go for one anyway as they won't do an ES200h!

Ive found its the opposite - the Lexus PR pictures are crap. 

The ES looks great in pictures so will probably relate to looking awesome in reality. 

[gdh300]

I really want it to be a good product. Technically good, but also sales good. Lexus UK needs a winner in the market place, not just a 'left field choice' as the sneering magazines called the GS. But that I think will probably need a shift in mindset from the UK buying public away from the flashy, thrusting, rattly Audi and BMW 'must have' to a more realistic, everyday, soothing drive as the ES will (I expect) deliver. Mindsets do change (attitudes to electric and diesel, for example) but it is slow and painful it seems. Otherwise the ES might be perceived as another Rover 800; fine for old folk but not much else. May be if fewer people had cars on three years PCP deals Lexus qualities would be more appreciated! 

 

[Jamesf1]

1 hour ago, rayaans said:

Ive found its the opposite - the Lexus PR pictures are crap. 

The ES looks great in pictures so will probably relate to looking awesome in reality. 

same here, hated NX and RX in first pr pics but both look great on the road

LC looks even better than the pics and it looks fantastic in pics

cant wait to see a new LS

 

[rayaans]

Its never going to be a "winner" in terms of sales compared to the Germans

TBH though, the market for a big saloon has deteriorated rapidly. I dont see many E-class/5-series/XF in their latest versions at all. See a lot of A6s but I suspect its due to the great rates on them

[dutchie01]

The saloonmarket is dead. Everybody seems to want SUV s now. Porsche, jaguar and also lexus could be categorized as SUV manufacturers as that is over 50% of production. The new LS and ES are cars still needed but not vitally important for Lexus as the SUV market is still expanding rapidly hence the small medium large and maybe soon XL versions of it.

moreover lexus is not interested in covering all niches like the german 3 so on the engine front the choice will remain relatively modest.

the current strategy is about styling, lifestyle, design, individuality. Electrification playes a role as with all manufacturers but the new direction is definately more towards international lifestyle whatever that may be. Think of hotels, restaurants, transport options in different cities then your own etc. 

i dont know the sales forecast of the new ES yet but compared to the germans it will be very tiny indeed

lexus is aiming for a modest global growth of 10% yoy and the UK does not really play a role in that

I think the new ES will be a great looker that could potentially steal sales from the A6 but i fear the infotainment could be as bad as the LS. Just look at a digital audi dash and the Lex feels a generation behind. Such a pity that toyota did not invest in the electronic side of things.

maybe one day?

 

 

 

[rayaans]

22 hours ago, dutchie01 said:

The saloonmarket is dead. Everybody seems to want SUV s now. Porsche, jaguar and also lexus could be categorized as SUV manufacturers as that is over 50% of production. The new LS and ES are cars still needed but not vitally important for Lexus as the SUV market is still expanding rapidly hence the small medium large and maybe soon XL versions of it.

moreover lexus is not interested in covering all niches like the german 3 so on the engine front the choice will remain relatively modest.

the current strategy is about styling, lifestyle, design, individuality. Electrification playes a role as with all manufacturers but the new direction is definately more towards international lifestyle whatever that may be. Think of hotels, restaurants, transport options in different cities then your own etc. 

i dont know the sales forecast of the new ES yet but compared to the germans it will be very tiny indeed

lexus is aiming for a modest global growth of 10% yoy and the UK does not really play a role in that

I think the new ES will be a great looker that could potentially steal sales from the A6 but i fear the infotainment could be as bad as the LS. Just look at a digital audi dash and the Lex feels a generation behind. Such a pity that toyota did not invest in the electronic side of things.

maybe one day?

 

 

 

The infotainment I dont understand.

For example - JLR system on the Velar which is very good despite being somewhat slow and Ford Sync are actually made by Panasonic Automotive. So is the system in the MK 7.5 Golf which has a digital cockpit. 

It'd be much easier for Lexus to get Panasonic Automotive to do their infotainment. At the moment, I think its done in house.

[Guest]

I thought it was aisin stuff.

Sent from my STV100-4 using Tapatalk

[rayaans]

1 hour ago, Comedian said:

I thought it was aisin stuff.

Sent from my STV100-4 using Tapatalk
 

Could well be tbh, not entirely sure who does it - regardless, could be better but It won't stop me purchasing a car

[ColinBarber]

It is Aisin. They have a complicated history but are essentially a Toyota company, who directly own about 1/3 of the company (similar to Denso in that regard).

Toyota/Lexus typically use Pioneer for audio, who like Panasonic could also do a better job.

I'm assuming that the new ES will get apple CarPlay, and hope it comes to Europe so this becomes less of a issue.

[Linas.P]

On 21/04/2018 at 4:41 PM, rayaans said:

I dont see many E-class/5-series/XF in their latest versions at all. See a lot of A6s but I suspect its due to the great rates on them

Maybe that depends on the are - in London that's the only cars I see. Not XF though, but 5-Series, new E-Class, A6's are everywhere. 

[noby76]

On 21/04/2018 at 6:07 PM, dutchie01 said:

The saloonmarket is dead. Everybody seems to want SUV s now. Porsche, jaguar and also lexus could be categorized as SUV manufacturers as that is over 50% of production. The new LS and ES are cars still needed but not vitally important for Lexus as the SUV market is still expanding rapidly hence the small medium large and maybe soon XL versions of it.

Yeh its something i have also noticed roughly 5 years ago on the roads. SUV's seems to be pretty much everywhere and most manufactures who never had SUV's in their range are all offering one of some sort.  most of them i see don't hold any more boot, front and rear leg room space when compared to a descent size saloon like GS/LS but yet people are switching to them. nothing against SUV's as i would own one at some point just to experience it but i wonder why the switch in recent years...

[NemesisUK]

19 minutes ago, noby76 said:

i wonder why the switch in recent years...

Fashion mainly but also some buyers consider them to be "ruffty-tufty" go anywhere and safer, which they generally are not!

[Jamesf1]

56 minutes ago, noby76 said:

Yeh its something i have also noticed roughly 5 years ago on the roads. SUV's seems to be pretty much everywhere and most manufactures who never had SUV's in their range are all offering one of some sort.  most of them i see don't hold any more boot, front and rear leg room space when compared to a descent size saloon like GS/LS but yet people are switching to them. nothing against SUV's as i would own one at some point just to experience it but i wonder why the switch in recent years...

Your right about space - recently looked at a Skoda superb estate and  kodiaq suv, the superb was no smaller but the mrs wouldn’t see past the suv. Being higher means it’s easier getting babies and small kids in and out, but I think the suv just carries more prestige for some reason. Personally I don’t like them. Comprised so not actually good off road (most arnt even 4x4) or on road- tall, blunt, heavy. 

[Jamesf1]

I hope the ES does a good job of filling these shoes

http://www.thisismoney.co.uk/money/cars/article-5630807/The-reliable-second-hand-luxury-cars.html

[royoftherovers]

That is an outstanding result for LEXUS. Who needs what the motoring press call "a drivers car?" 

In my opinion Lexus is for the experienced and discerning motorist who understands the meaning of total economy. .

[Jamesf1]

Yes they still get that dig in not as exciting to drive as.....An Audi A6 is not any better to drive, neither is a five on stock suspension in the real world.

[Jamesf1]

Spoiler alert?

Details released yesterday  on the new Toyota Avalon on which ES is based:

http://pressroom.toyota.com/releases/all+new+2019+toyota+avalon+beams+effortless+sophistication+style+exhilaration.htm

pics:

http://pressroom.toyota.com/album_display.cfm?album_id=1303&section_id=361

Details on hybrid system:

A new TNGA 2.5-liter four-cylinder Dynamic Force Engine is more fuel efficient, runs cleaner, and is more powerful than previous iterations, and excels at dissipating thermal inefficiencies. Doing it all took the implementation of Toyota’s vast catalog of advanced engine technologies: Dual VVT-i with VVT-iE (Variable Valve Timing intelligent system by Electric motor); D-4S (Direct injection 4-stroke gasoline engine Superior version) direct injection and laser-clad valve seats; longer stroke (4.07 inches; bore remains at 3.44 inches) and high compression ratio (14:1); multi-hole direct fuel injectors; a variable cooling system; cooled Exhaust Gas Recirculation (EGR) system; and a full variable oil pump.
 
Instead of oil pressure, its Dual VVT-i with VVT-iE variable valve system employs an electric motor to control variable valve timing, which aids fuel efficiency and promotes cleaner exhaust emissions (this is especially helpful in cold climates). The D-4S direct injection combines higher-pressure direct fuel injection (DI) and lower-pressure port fuel injection (PFI), and applies each method of injection based on specific driving parameters. Furthering fuel efficiency are new multi-hole nozzle direct injectors (six holes per injector).
 
 
The four-cylinder Dynamic Force Engine is married to an all-new Toyota Hybrid System II powertrain that’s been engineered to inspire both spirited driving and fuel consciousness. The hybrid system’s net power output is an impressive 215 horsepower – up 15 horsepower versus the outgoing version. THS II uses two electric motors – MG1 and MG2 – to supplement the charging of the hybrid system’s Nickel-Metal Hydride (Ni-MH) Battery pack, while MG2 assists the engine.
 
New for 2019, the highly compact Battery pack now resides under the rear passenger seat (instead of the trunk), as a result of improved TNGA packaging and for the betterment of a lower center of gravity. THS II’s new lighter, smaller Power Control Unit (PCU) packages microcontrollers within a power stack structure that’s located above the transaxle – all with the goal of lowering mass to better handling composure.
 
Efficiencies on many levels are seen with the implementation of the new PCU. Energy loss in the conversion efficiency of the transaxle and electric motor is reduced by approximately 20 percent, and its cooling system’s energy loss is cut by approximately 10 percent. The PCU’s DC-DC converter – which converts a direct current from one voltage level to another – is optimized to reduce overall power consumption. Dimensionally, DC-DC converter’s output filter is smaller, lighter, and quieter for an improved passenger experience.
 
Auto Glide Control (AGC), yet another of Avalon’s fuel-saving technologies, automatically calculates efficient coasting. When driving normally, engine braking will slow the vehicle down when the driver lifts off from the accelerator pedal. However, to avoid aggressive engine braking, AGC limits the loss of vehicle speed through an automatic drive setting that acts more like a neutral gear, allowing the vehicle to coast to the stoplight.

[Chafford1]

ES300h here in January 2019 according to Lexus Stocport on twitter.

[ColinBarber]

10 hours ago, Chafford1 said:

ES300h here in January 2019 according to Lexus Stocport on twitter.

We get to hear more about it tomorrow.

Not sure this picture/colour does it any favours:

https://www.lexus.eu/car-models/es/#hero