RX 450h versus Mitsubishi Outlander PHEV.

[parkman]

Hi, I am probably about to put the cat among the pigeons, but I really would like to hear some views on the Mitsubishi Outlander PHEV. I know that the Outlander is only 2 litre and around 200 bhp, but I would like to find out how it compares against the RX.

Is the RX much bigger in size ? How does the RX compare inside, against the Outlander ? Is there any benefit to the fact that the Outlander is a plug-in hybrid ?

I had a long wheel base Mitsubishi Pajero for a couple of years, in 2010 to 2013, and I found it to be pretty good. But not as good as the two long wheel base Isuzu Troopers that I had before the Pajero. The first Trooper was an old donkey 2.1 litre, basic but bullet-proof, diesel, with a top speed of around 95 mph.

The second one was a 2.2 DOHC and was much quicker.

The Pajero was, I think, 2.4, and was quicker in top speed and acceleration. 

I like the RX, but I don't mind admitting that I have seen a few very nice Outlanders, but I have not had a close look at one. So I would appreciate if anyone has driven one, or even owned one.

Parkman.

 

[LennyLexus]

On budget go for the phev.

Wanting luxury go for the RX. 

That's coming coming from someone who is considering both for a next car. The phev would be good if your daily commute is less than 25-30 miles in which case you could go all electric. 

[ColinBarber]

The Outlander is good if you can make most of your journey within the EV range. Once the engine is running it isn't that economical.

From a luxury and comfort point of view the two aren't really comparable.

[Muddywheels]

After 6 superb Land Rovers over 10 years in some awful weather I owned 2 Range Rover Sports from 2010-15 but I decided due to numerous issues and rising cost to change I'd try a Discovery Sport

I suffered that for 9 months before I lost the will to buy anything built by JLR again and bought the Mitsubishi PHEV on the recommendation of a friend who's had 3 faultless Mitsubishi PHEV and found depreciation pretty low

This friend has owned 2 RX in the past but recently had an NX and Mitsubishi PHEV - he also convinced me to buy the RC which scratched the luxury itch I missed on the Mitsy 

I've had the PHEV since September 2016 and it does everything I ask of it at a fraction of the price I paid before 

It's not luxurious like the RX and if they sold a PHEV version I'd definitely be interested but they don't so I'm sticking with the Mitsy 

I now visit the petrol station about the same number of times a year I visited the LR dealer and apart from annual service never see the Mitsubishi dealer

Worst tank was 34 mpg during a week touring Cotswolds without recharging 

Usually I only go down to mid 40s if running out of batteries. My average since purchase is low 80s

Last week I tackled some of the worst weather I've seen ever without a fault so that's another requirement ticked off my list

https://vimeo.com/album/5019985

The only thing that stopped me was vehicles stuck on main roads until I took side roads

I have fitted winter tyres as it comes with summer tyres and no decent all season were available at the time but Michelin cross climates are available to fit now and getting good reviews

I like the RC luxury but I'm actually thinking of selling it because the Mitsubishi is more comfortable and practical so gets used most of the time 

The PHEV was massively discounted when I bought it and I got big tax rebate running my own business so cost me peanuts

Sorry for the long post - unfortunately I can't offer much insight on the RX but happy to answer questions about the Mitsy 

[Paulcp]

👋👋 Hi, Muddy

didnt expect to find you here 

[Spacewagon52]

A good review Muddy.

This is why you SHOULD NOT buy a PHEV  - it is a long clip but he makes some interesting points - below that is a sponsored clip which shows how good the PHEV should be!

You must make up your own mind. 

Now for the other side:- 

 

 

[royoftherovers]

"I now visit the petrol station about the same number of times a year I visited the LR dealer and apart from annual service never see the Mitsubishi dealer"

 

I find this  line to be the most succinct adverse comment I have ever read about any vehicle. Many thanks Muddy.

[Gliderpilot]

I'd have the Outlander in a heartbeat but it wont tow my caravan (too heavy) the RX will. I can't wait till Toyota/Lexus get out of the stone age and start to produce a descent PHEV, after all they did it with the Prius a good while ago. I've given up waiting for an all electric model.

[Muddywheels]

2 hours ago, Paulcp said:

👋👋 Hi, Muddy

didnt expect to find you here 

Hi Paul - Joined when I bought the RC

Few ex LR owners here now - we should have our own sub forum

[Muddywheels]

2 hours ago, Spacewagon52 said:

A good review Muddy.

This is why you SHOULD NOT buy a PHEV  - it is a long clip but he makes some interesting points - below that is a sponsored clip which shows how good the PHEV should be!

You must make up your own mind.

I've seen the John Cadogan vid and others he's done - he's an entertainer like Clarkson and just about as credible IMHO

I have no regrets buying the PHEV - if you look at my car ownership history I've had a lot of vehicles because I get bored easily or  had issues - I've changed vehicles after 6-9 months but usually 2-3 years. The PHEV came with a 5 year full warranty/8 year battery and unless they bring something out with double the EV range I may actually keep it for 5-8 years because it just does what I want it to and I see no reason to change it right now

One of my favorite features is  timed climate or preheating using phone on cold mornings that actually works - I had this on the RRS but could never use it due to low Battery or garage filling with diesel fumes - I now do this off mains while in garage or Battery if out with no fumes to worry about

I agree on the towing ability - I owned a Landcruiser and 2 RRSports during the periods I was towing twin axle caravans around 1900kg and the PHEV wouldn't of done that - I'm no longer towing so I can spend the money I'm saving on other things now like gastro pubs and luxury cottages 

[Spacewagon52]

I am personally very impressed with the Mitsubishi PHEV - I have owned 7 ordinary Mitsubishis and they have been excellent, reliable cars. 

As I tow a caravan it would not be my immediate choice, also the second-hand prices are still on the high side.

John Cadogan, though Clarksonesque, does make some valid points. The technology is new but that does not mean it will be unreliable. If there are majot failings then it could become very expensive ........ but so could a Lexus. The range is short on EV compared with other PHEV's. Though you do get a very large and practical car.

Now Mitsubishi are part of the Renault group, I would think twice before buying a new one - just in case it has French electrics!

The Lexus RX450h does take some beating overall. However, at this point in time, I will be sticking with my RX300. I will try and finish my review of this older RX model and post it.

[Muddywheels]

IMHO the Outlander is more an NX class vehicle - the RX is in another league

The Outlander PHEV was launched January 2013 in Japan and so far not heard any reports of reliability issues or Battery failures although with a 5 year warranty/8 year battery  it's not something I'm worried about

The Outlander has the best range of any PHEV at the moment AFAIK - it certainly did when I bought mine 

By contrast a friend sold a 4 year old RR Sport recently (cost over £80k new) with balance of LR extended warranty and 2 weeks later the crankshaft snapped costing £18k to repair -  warranty claim has been rejected as it's apparently a design fault and not covered and I know lots of similar cases on forums. My Discovery Sport had 22 issues in the 9 months I owned it and delivery was delayed from Sep to Dec due to factory quarantine during build but nobody would give me much information

The friend who got me on to Lexus and Mitsubishi bought the 1st gen UK Outlander in 2014 and had no issues. He bought the facelift in 2015 because he prefered the styling and had no issues with that one. He's now on a MY18 because he fancied the EV button/EPB but still had no issues - his cost to change have been very impressive - I lost £22k in 2 years on my last RR Sport

Lexus were voted most reliable brand https://www.whatcar.com/news/reliability-survey and Outlander was voted most reliable large SUV https://www.whatcar.com/news/reliability-survey-7/ so I've got all my bases covered

[parkman]

Very, very many thanks for all the excellent replies. My use of the vehicle would be for day to day driving, some longish journeys, around three hundred miles down the country and back in a day. But I don't tow anything, and I occasionally have a couple of passengers, or perhaps two child seats in the back. I also live in Ireland, so I have to be aware of large annual road tax bills.

I have just sold my 2004 Merc E220 cdi mainly because it was diesel, which is becoming very bad news in Ireland, and also because the annual road tax is €950. And only likely to go up. So, as I don't earn €100,000 a year the likes of a Rangerover or a BMW X5 are no-go's. If I wanted to pay €3000 road tax then I would probably go back to a 7 seater Isuzu Trooper, which I found to be a wonderful tough, reliable, and solid workhorse of an SUV. I had two and they were both excellent machines, although they were both Japanese imports, with all the extra's.

Re: David [Spacewagon52], I agree about the reliability of the Mitsubishi. My Pajero was very good, and very comfortable. I have also read the Auto Express review. It is interesting that when you look at the first "page" both the RX and the Outlander PHEV are marked as 3 stars. I will have a look at the John Cadogan video but I am just concerned that it is an Australian review and I would imagine that conditions in Australia are far different from those in the UK. My father had a new Lexus LS 460 when they were first sold in the UK, but that car did not like the heat in the south of France, or in Spain where he used to spend the winter. He had lots of electrical problems which Lexus said was down to heat causing problems with the ECU's of which I believe there are two. Eventually, he left the car in the UK and when by air and then rented a car in Spain.

Very many thanks to Paul [Muddywheels]. A very good post which has given me a lot to consider. I do like the look of the Outlander, although it doesn't seem to have the options that the RX has. But then I need to ask myself do I really need all the "toys". Do I really need the electronics that tell me that there is a car beside me, or on the passenger side, of just behind me ? I appreciate the park assist, and possibly the auto boot opener. But I have lived with cars that don't have all these options, so do I really need them now ? Human nature makes us buy the model with the most options when there is more than one model available. 

Perhaps Henry Ford was correct when he said that there was only one colour available - black !!

So again, many, many thanks for really useful posts from everybody.

Parkman.

 

[Muddywheels]

Cheers Peter

How often do you do the 300 mile day trips? If regular then I hate to say it but a diesel would probably be best for your requirements although I have managed 42 and 65 out of a Tank on long trips (around 200 miles)

My road tax is nil but new models now pay

I have auto tailgate and surround cameras on my GX4h - can't say I'm missing any toys

[Paulcp]

9 hours ago, Muddywheels said:

Hi Paul - Joined when I bought the RC

Few ex LR owners here now - we should have our own sub forum

Yes, I saw on the DS & RRS that you'd bought a RC.

I now have the car we should have bought when I sold the RRS and bought the DS. The DS was the wife's choice & I let her have her own way since I'd just bought the Evora. In the end though it was the wife, who'd had enough of LR & their dealers, who said one day in Dec "let's dump the DS and get the RX"

[Friso]

2 hours ago, Muddywheels said:

IMHO the Outlander is more an NX class vehicle - the RX is in another league

The Outlander PHEV was launched January 2013 in Japan and so far not heard any reports of reliability issues or battery failures although with a 5 year warranty/8 year battery  it's not something I'm worried about

The Outlander has the best range of any PHEV at the moment AFAIK - it certainly did when I bought mine 

By contrast a friend sold a 4 year old RR Sport recently (cost over £80k new) with balance of LR extended warranty and 2 weeks later the crankshaft snapped costing £18k to repair -  warranty claim has been rejected as it's apparently a design fault and not covered and I know lots of similar cases on forums. My Discovery Sport had 22 issues in the 9 months I owned it and delivery was delayed from Sep to Dec due to factory quarantine during build but nobody would give me much information

The friend who got me on to Lexus and Mitsubishi bought the 1st gen UK Outlander in 2014 and had no issues. He bought the facelift in 2015 because he prefered the styling and had no issues with that one. He's now on a MY18 because he fancied the EV button/EPB but still had no issues - his cost to change have been very impressive - I lost £22k in 2 years on my last RR Sport

Lexus were voted most reliable brand https://www.whatcar.com/news/reliability-survey and Outlander was voted most reliable large SUV https://www.whatcar.com/news/reliability-survey-7/ so I've got all my bases covered

Anyone know/understand why lexus doesn't feature in the SUV lists?

[rayaans]

8 minutes ago, Friso said:

Anyone know/understand why lexus doesn't feature in the SUV lists?

Probably because they would have won.

But more likely because they didn't get enough responses

[parkman]

Paul [Muddywheels], I would only do a longish run down the country about twice a year, so I feel that I can take the cost of the PHEV rather than diesel. My main concern, as I am retired, is that in the fairly near future the Irish government are going to penalise drivers of diesel cars.

I looked at the emissions of a number of cars before buying an IS 300h, because I was importing the car to Ireland. In this day and age in Ireland running a decent fairly large normally aspirated motor is highway robbery between high road tax and silly insurance quotes. If you have a car that is older than 10 years, so pre-2008, there are only two insurance companies who will quote you. All other insurance companies have an embargo on over 10 year old cars, and there is nothing you can do about it.

The big attraction of the IS 300h is the fact that it is a 2.5 litre and therefore fairly lively. The road tax is €190 a year, just about the cheapest road tax in Ireland, and at least you can go to any insurance company because the car is only 4 years old.

Any of the other makes that I looked at, such as Merc, BMW, and Jaguar, were much higher in emissions, mainly because they were using diesel and Adblue engines. So emissions were around 140 - 180 grams, and that puts them all in the €350 - 500 a year road tax bracket. Added to that, they are all diesel.

Just another question in relation to this, even though we are on a Lexus forum  - is there much difference between the Outlander GX4h and the GX5h ?

Parkman.

[Muddywheels]

1 hour ago, Friso said:

Anyone know/understand why lexus doesn't feature in the SUV lists?

I suspect like Rayaans said not enough owners responded to score them but not sure

[Muddywheels]

Peter - I do long motorway trips same as you about 2-4 times a year and still get better mpg than the Discovery Sport Diesel and the RC so I don't think you need to worry about that

I initially went for the RC based on the £30 pa VED but missed the April 2017 deadline so  have to pay £440 

The GX5h comes with a few extra toys but the price jump isn't worth it IMHO and probably explains why the GX4h outsells it in spades - basically you get premium leather, heated rear seats, better stereo and some front/rear badges on 5h for another £4500