Jag.owner buys a Lexus

reeac · March 5, 2018

Have owned two different Jaguar XJ s over a period of 26 years. The second one, a 1998 XJ8 3.2 which I bought in 2002, I had intended to keep forever and pass on to my son with the hope that it could become a show car. Big shock in January when, after advisories since 2009, the front sub frame corrosion was declared terminal. What to do? I didn't want a diesel nor a black car (the Jag was a superb Madiera Pearl) and eventually went to the nearest Lexus place and rather quickly (it was a very wet day) bought a Nov. 2015 IS300 Sport in pearlescent Arctic White , 6600 miles on the clock. My early impressions? Very quiet, smooth and comfortable along with 45 versus the Jaguar's 26 mpg. I do rather wonder about the lack of any spare wheel .... both the Jags had full size spares and hefty 60 profile tyres at that and they also had better all round visibility (need those proximity sensors in the IS) . Inevitably the Jags had more grunt for overtaking but overall it's good to have a change. My daughter, though, thinks that it's too boy racer for an 82 year old.

Linas.P · March 5, 2018

Congrats on your purchase!

Interesting choice, I would think that GS would have been more comparable as replacement for Xj (if not LS, but that is a bit steep in terms of price). As for the grunt I have the same feeling when I get in anything marked with 300h and I merely comparing it with 2.5L v6 in my current IS250, not a 3.2l Jag. Lexus hybrids are really oriented towards efficiency and cruising and need some time to adapt the the style of the car. They don't really like being pushed to the limits and feels much better placed at slowly and quietly accelerating or simply cruising at constant speed.

The one given thing is that the car will last... probably even longer than you would want to... as I cannot fault mine in anyway which prevent me from changing to something else... it is kind of hard to replace car which gives no problems whatsoever.

reeac · March 5, 2018

Whilst I've always been aware of the bigger Lexus models I've always thought the styling to be heavy and clumsy compared with the XJ series Jaguars and particularly the x308 version of 1998 to 2003 which is what my second one was. I feel the same about all the 4x4 s, pseudo 4x4 s, softroaders and SUVs that seem to be so prevalent now. I also see plenty of people struggling to fit those vehicles into parking spaces. The IS suits us fine and we have an oldish Honda Jazz for utilitarian purposes (plus a nearly 60 year old MGA for fun).

rayaans · March 5, 2018

10 minutes ago, reeac said:

Whilst I've always been aware of the bigger Lexus models I've always thought the styling to be heavy and clumsy compared with the XJ series Jaguars and particularly the x308 version of 1998 to 2003 which is what my second one was. I feel the same about all the 4x4 s, pseudo 4x4 s, softroaders and SUVs that seem to be so prevalent now. I also see plenty of people struggling to fit those vehicles into parking spaces. The IS suits us fine and we have an oldish Honda Jazz for utilitarian purposes (plus a nearly 60 year old MGA for fun).

A very interesting choice of wheels for an 82 year old. White Sport with the Black 18" wheels!

Would have expected you to go towards a more sombre colourscheme, or atleast one of the trim levels which isn't aimed at 30 year old!

Nevertheless, a brilliant vehicle and never had an issue with it in 5 years of ownership

Linas.P · March 5, 2018

Jag isn't exactly small car either. But I am not trying to talk you into something, just though IS300h is not exactly like-for-like replacement.. as well sadly in UK it seems that Lexus decided "one size fits all" and the only option is to get 300h, which as you have mentioned lacks a bit of pull .. generally speaking.

Again my opinion would be that GS450h Premier would be the car to go and as well knowing it is Lexus (which means the love miles if maintained) I would have taken advantage of little bit higher mileage car. Not 100k but maybe 30k and 2014 car which would be comparable price with IS300h. But again maybe change was something you wanted .. and what is better statement than white IS Fsport.

Carl1983 · March 5, 2018

I don't want to start a debate here but you say the 300h lacks grunt however 0-60 is the same as the older v6?

As a 300h f sport owner when I hit sport and hit the deck to overtake it certainly doesn't lack grunt......

Cheers

rayaans · March 6, 2018

21 hours ago, Carl1983 said:

I don't want to start a debate here but you say the 300h lacks grunt however 0-60 is the same as the older v6?

As a 300h f sport owner when I hit sport and hit the deck to overtake it certainly doesn't lack grunt......

Cheers

Oh no Carl....

Just watch this thread now unravel into one from before you were a member!

Let's just say it got closed....

Carl1983 · March 6, 2018

haha oh dear I apologise now .

Linas.P · March 6, 2018

Let's just say that perceived amount of "grunt" really depends on perspective, for one it is going to be "plenty enough", for other is going to be "sluggish". As we need to take in consideration that noise coming from the engine and exhaust (or in case of IS300h - speakers) can give false feeling that you are going very fast. Talking about Jag - that 3.2L V8 surely had nice note to supplement before-mentioned feeling. Then there is a question about how the power is delivered and I never got used to 300h way of doing it - that is not to say it's bad, just again every person will have different opinion and preference.

reeac · March 7, 2018

I seem to have started something here. My comments on overtaking grunt were based on subjective feel so I looked for test data. The Autocar XJ8 3.2 test shows 0-60 in 7.6 seconds but by 2015 Autocar were quoting 0-62 times ....8.4 seconds for the IS 300h. A bit of maths converts the XJ8 figure to 7.9 seconds for 0-62 so only 0.5 seconds difference in 8 seconds. More relevant for overtaking would be 50-70 times....3.8seconds reported for the XJ8 and (by my calculation, no data found) 4.0 seconds for the IS. Surprisingly little difference in times.

With reference to noise, I must say that the factory fitted Jag exhaust ( which needed no attention in 20 years) emitted a lovely V8 burble which became just audible at around 2500 rpm and pretty muscle car style under kick down conditions. I frequently played games keeping the rev counter on a certain setting and letting the torque converter provide the acceleration ..2000 rpm for mild, 3000 rpm for faster progress. I have yet to try that with the Lexus ecvt.

Linas.P · March 7, 2018

Not much to be honest, it is just that in the past we have identified quite stark opinion different between myself and other members when it comes to IS300h "grunt" or lack of it - all dependent on the personal perspectives obviously. To be clear it is not an issue with IS300h at all, but that (in my opinion) Lexus doesn't really offer any alternative for people who want little bit more performance.

As it happens I am exactly that type of person... if I ever had any issue with my IS250 it was that it lacks power. Someone else might want more fuel efficient car - fine for them - IS300h, here you have it. But if you need more power ... ummhh not much choice. Can go with GS450h, but that is whole class above and twice the price + I don't exactly like the looks.. or you have to get something else all together. In same time there is IS350 across the pound which seems to be exactly that alternative, but it is not sold over here.

As for the gearbox, I was actually pleasantly surprised about e-cvt boxes (as the one fitted to IS mk3). Massive step-up from old cvt and I almost prefer it to the automatic - if it would only have some substance from the motor to play with. My point - set in "sport" and run-it past the phases... it is quite enjoyable.

Chris Skelton · March 7, 2018

OK. Now get on to the pros + cons of being 82 and the inevitable decay of faculties - denied, usually. (Experience of parents and friends!)

Though I don't agree with Rayaan on youth aimed cars....old folk still are young inside often! We remember the groovy 60s!

I'm still wondering whether to get a 'last car' before stopping driving. Comfort is paramount (no NOT seat comfort, though that helps!) but UKs roads are suffering from Tory Austerity effects so fat tyres and Citroenesque suspension?

rayaans · March 7, 2018

1 hour ago, reeac said:

I seem to have started something here. My comments on overtaking grunt were based on subjective feel so I looked for test data. The Autocar XJ8 3.2 test shows 0-60 in 7.6 seconds but by 2015 Autocar were quoting 0-62 times ....8.4 seconds for the IS 300h. A bit of maths converts the XJ8 figure to 7.9 seconds for 0-62 so only 0.5 seconds difference in 8 seconds. More relevant for overtaking would be 50-70 times....3.8seconds reported for the XJ8 and (by my calculation, no data found) 4.0 seconds for the IS. Surprisingly little difference in times.

With reference to noise, I must say that the factory fitted Jag exhaust ( which needed no attention in 20 years) emitted a lovely V8 burble which became just audible at around 2500 rpm and pretty muscle car style under kick down conditions. I frequently played games keeping the rev counter on a certain setting and letting the torque converter provide the acceleration ..2000 rpm for mild, 3000 rpm for faster progress. I have yet to try that with the Lexus ecvt.

Without getting into perceived feelings of speed and all that crap (with the intention of not starting another 300 style war with Linas.P)

50-70mph in an IS300h is exactly 4.2s as quoted by Autoexpress here:

http://www.autoexpress.co.uk/lexus/is/98664/lexus-is-vs-jaguar-xe

parkman · March 7, 2018

I had three Jaguars XJ's. I had a 2001 XJ 3.2 which was a lovely car. I then bought a 2004 XJR which was a brilliant car, and so fast. Then I traded the XJR for a 2009, very, very last production XJR which had all the options that were available to the XJ range as my XJR was one of the last 10 cars ever made. It was a rocket ship, but after a couple of years I decided that it was just too difficult to drive.

The last XJR's had around 420 bhp which was a real power pack, especially as the car was aluminium. But it was quite difficult to drive slowly, you had to concentrate every second because you barely had to press the throttle and the car rockets forward. I went to France on holiday in it and we called to the Le Mans museum. Having been to the exhibits we headed south, down the Mulsanne Straight and I decided to give the car socks. I took it up to 170 mph before lifting off. The car just kept accelerating, it was exhilarating, a once in a life time opportunity.

I eventually sold both Jags and bought a Merc E220 cdi, and although it was comfortable it had no real get-up and go. It was quite nice but the issue with DPF mode drove me mad and I was glad to get rid of it after three years and buy the Lexus IS 300h.

The IS is nicely refined when compared to the Merc diesel, but obviously doesn't come close to the XJR. That's only to be expected, the Jag is a 4.2 litre V8 !! But the I is much easier in town, easier to park, and much more economical. But there the comparison ends, the two cars are as different as chalk and cheese.

But I would fancy an LC 500 if I had over £70,000 to spend on a car.

Parkman.

Dealkent · March 9, 2018

We changed a Jaguar XF diesel 3 litre for the current IS 300 h . My partner hasn’t really forgiven me . I think we should have spent more time looking at different models and should have gone for one with highest spec . We miss the electric seats , the rear camera etc , but I found the Jag to be big when parking and although our s was reliable I was always waiting for some thing terrible to go wrong with it .

Still keep looking at the lastest Jag models but most are under whelming now apart from the new E pace .

The new Lexus UX looks appealing .

rayaans · March 9, 2018

35 minutes ago, Dealkent said:

We changed a Jaguar XF diesel 3 litre for the current IS 300 h . My partner hasn’t really forgiven me . I think we should have spent more time looking at different models and should have gone for one with highest spec . We miss the electric seats , the rear camera etc , but I found the Jag to be big when parking and although our s was reliable I was always waiting for some thing terrible to go wrong with it .

Still keep looking at the lastest Jag models but most are under whelming now apart from the new E pace .

The new Lexus UX looks appealing .

I configurated an E-pace. Shocked to find it'd be £50k with the same spec as an NX and its a smaller vehicle. Interior quality has always been an issue with modern jags - it gets worse with the E-pace.

I think you would be a perfect candidate for an IS300h Premier, or the GS300h

parkman · March 9, 2018

I agree with Rayaan, the Premier is a really nice car, I know because I have one !! The fact that the Premier has memory drivers seat was a deal breaker for me, because I nearly bought a Jaguar XF. A very nice car, white with cream leather, 2016 with 6000 miles, but to move the seat you have to get into the car. Not great when my wife is only 5ft 1in, and I am 6ft. Especially if she was the last person to drive the car and the seat is up close to the steering wheel.

The other problem with the Jaguar was that the drivers seat didn't lift up far enough for my wife to see clearly over the bonnet. The same issue occurred with the 2012 BMW 520d, the seating position is too low for her.

The Lexus has a very good variation on the height of the drivers seat so all is well.

Parkman.

Ala Larj · March 9, 2018

Love my GS premier. The seats are amazing. Really like the fact you can set the memory to the key so the seats get into position when opening the door. Great with the size difference between me and the missus. The interior quality is so much better than the xf. It may not be as good as the Jag 'on the limit' but who really does that? It's most relaxing cruiser I've ever had and in sport+ not bad on windy b roads either!

March 10, 2018

I think once you have had electric heated memory seats and all the nice gadgets it’s very hard to be without them,I know for us now we wouldn’t buy a car without them.just like I would only have automatics too.

Jamesf1 · March 29, 2018

On 09/03/2018 at 11:23 PM, Ala Larj said:

Love my GS premier. The seats are amazing. Really like the fact you can set the memory to the key so the seats get into position when opening the door. Great with the size difference between me and the missus. The interior quality is so much better than the xf. It may not be as good as the Jag 'on the limit' but who really does that? It's most relaxing cruiser I've ever had and in sport+ not bad on windy b roads either!

even with the memory seats, best bet is dont let her drive it. I dont drive my Mrs Merc so all is fair. (mind you thats fine by me as I like a car that completes journeys on its own not on a flatbed lol)

ganzoom · April 2, 2018

On 07/03/2018 at 8:04 PM, parkman said:

I had three Jaguars XJ's. I had a 2001 XJ 3.2 which was a lovely car. I then bought a 2004 XJR which was a brilliant car, and so fast. Then I traded the XJR for a 2009, very, very last production XJR which had all the options that were available to the XJ range as my XJR was one of the last 10 cars ever made. It was a rocket ship, but after a couple of years I decided that it was just too difficult to drive.

The last XJR's had around 420 bhp which was a real power pack, especially as the car was aluminium. But it was quite difficult to drive slowly, you had to concentrate every second because you barely had to press the throttle and the car rockets forward. I went to France on holiday in it and we called to the Le Mans museum. Having been to the exhibits we headed south, down the Mulsanne Straight and I decided to give the car socks. I took it up to 170 mph before lifting off. The car just kept accelerating, it was exhilarating, a once in a life time opportunity.

The XJ and XJS are cars I've lusted after since childhood.

Its only recently I've got to a point in life with enough disposable cash to even think about owning something like a XJ. But ironically it was when visting a Jag showroom in a loaner IS300H that proved a watershed moment for me in car ownership.

We had arrived and parked up in near silence as the IS was in EV mode, and just as I started to admire a lovely looking XJ the unmistakable noise of a diesel rattle appeared. The best design/workmanship in the world cannot hide the crude agricultural rubble of a diesel engine.

Ever since than I have nearly given up on the idea of XJ ownership, till Jaguar announced the iPace and Ian Cullum pretty much confirmed the existence of an eletricfied XJ as the iPace launch event.

Am now waiting in high anticipation to see what Jaguar can do with the next XJ, providing price isn't too prohibitve am 95% this will be my next car :).

https://www.autocar.co.uk/car-news/new-cars/2019-jaguar-xj-be-reborn-high-tech-electric-flagship

First_Lexus · April 2, 2018

On 10/03/2018 at 7:13 AM, Eame64 said:

I think once you have had electric heated memory seats and all the nice gadgets it’s very hard to be without them,I know for us now we wouldn’t buy a car without them.just like I would only have automatics too.

^^ Just to be contrary, I am the opposite. Having had all the gadgets over the years, I now go for mid-range cars and save money as I realised that I never or hardly ever used any of the gadgets. Mind you, only I drive my car so manually re-setting the seat and steering wheel is very rare. As long as a car has satnav and heated seats I'm happy.

The most pointless gadget of all IMHO - voice control. The answer to a question that nobody asked...

parkman · April 2, 2018

Re: Ganzoom. I looked very seriously at a 2016 Jaguar XE with 9000 miles, from Hatfields in Liverpool, but I was eventually put off by the fact that it was diesel, and also used Adblue to achieve the low emission figures.

I am really put off by the idea of having to check yet another reservoir before driving the car. Also, I do a lot of short journeys and, as I have said before, I dislike the DPF system. It just gives too many problems with a diesel and multiple short distances. My E220 cdi Merc, thankfully departed, used to give regular limp home mode problems, all related to diesel, DPF, and short journeys. These add up to garage nightmares.

The IS 300h is a dream in comparison to the Merc diesel. And I know that the Jaguars from around 2008, 2009, in 2.8 twin turbo diesel form were an even bigger nightmare. Short journeys and engine failures were the order of the day.

Re; Ed. I have never, ever, used voice command, even though I have had two previous cars with it. I don't really see the point of it either. Just another thing that either gives problems that only the dealer can fix, or else just doesn't understand the user !!! The other thing that I have never used, on a high spec vehicle, is the mobile phone connection thing.

Many years ago, for work, I used to use the Nokia built-in hands free car kits but then I decided that [a] I didn't want to keep having to answer the phone while travelling, and the government kindly saved me making the decision by out-lawing phone use while driving. For me, a phone call while on the move is a major distraction and normally just not of ant importance. Now, I never even check for calls until I get to the end of my journey. As the TV advert says - "simps" [[The two meerkats].

Parkman.