How important is TVD on RCF

[antspants]

Hi new member 1st post so be gentle :) 

I'm considering an RCF (blue or red up to £35k) as a replacement for my Boxster S. Options seem minimal as the cars come well specced, but the torque vectoring diff seems quite rare on cars I've looked at on AT so wanted owners opinions on whether it's something I'd particularly notice on the road (no intention to track)? 

Clearly it's better for me to try both myself but as cars for sale are pretty low in number, just trying to find one local to try out is hard enough :) 

So if anybody has experience driving cars with and without I'd appreciate any input. 

[Guest]

There is a great value red one at stoke. You don't want Blue - very common (back me up here blue owners) we don't have a single red rcf owner on board here.

I don't have TVD and didn't want it. My understanding is TVD works  well and produces faster lap times but this is my opinion:

Torsen diff is mechanical and instant, it works in a natural predictable way, same every time. TVD is electronic and reacts differently in different settings and situations as the computer decides what to do. 

For me it comes to TVD is better but helps you drive - I want to drive and improve. So TVD is likely to win in a race but the Torsen may give you a bigger grin round lanes. Or smelly pants. 

This thread may help to: https://www.clublexus.com/forums/rc-f-2015-present/778493-rcf-tvd-and-torsen-owners-impressions-and-knowledge-thread.html

[Big Rat]

@antspants Hi Anthony welcome to you and good luck with your search, blue is by far the most numerous colour for a Rcf, a few numbers for you there are last time I looked 169 Rcf and 25 Carbon cars registered here since release, so yes not many.

Invaribly if a Rcf has TVD it is most likely an ex Lexus press car journalist - magazine past life to it but there are the odd exception if you want to I can help, @Jonb recently bought a blue one with it and it was privately owned so they are out there.

The Carbon cars all have TVD as standard

I agree wholeheartedly with what @Comedianhas said regarding handling use of the vehicle.

Ive driven both many times and own one without it, as regards sales there is usually about 8-12 for  sale at main dealers at any one time and according to my data 9 have sold since mid January at main dealers and 3 at others.

There is some great help on here to be had and if you want to know about a cars past your interested in drop me a pm 👍

Big Rat

[ColinBarber]

Here is some info about it. It sounds impressive and provides something akin to rear wheel steering without some of the complexity however how much you will really notice on the road is questionable. The best thing about it is there are three modes, so you have the ability to set up the car a bit more to your liking.

[Flytvr]

@antspants welcome to the forum.

I am going to be honest. From a pure driving perspective I don't know.

You'd need to drive both back to back in an environment that would allow you to explore the two types of diff. I don't think any RC-F owner I know has been fortunate enough to carry out such an experiment. Until you get to speak to somebody who has - or manage it yourself, it's still an unanswered question.

 

 

[Guest]

https://www.clublexus.com/forums/rc-f-2015-present/849183-tvd-vs-torsen-hp-loss.html

Also claims of power loss due to TVD (sorry @Flytvr)- don't know how true it is but in the video the Torsen car clears off from the TVD - TVD can pull highre G corners and have less steering input. 

 

Interesting stuff but no definitive answer.

[Martin F]

1 hour ago, Big Rat said:

Invaribly if a Rcf has TVD it is most likely an ex Lexus press car journalist - magazine past life to it but there are the odd exception if you want to I can help, @Jonb recently bought a blue one with it and it was privately owned so they are out there.

I'm not sure I agree with that Ratty, there seems to be a lot of initial purchasers out there who fully specc'd the car when ordering, my own included.

@antspants Welcome and nice shortlist that you have. :) I also had the same dilemma when purchasing my RCF as there was another car closer to me which was in very good condition but lower specification, without the TVD.

I think this is about the best real world example of testing that I found. https://www.caranddriver.com/features/whats-the-diff-we-put-torque-vectoring-to-the-test-feature

So as summarised by the guys above, I think in general day to day driving you won't notice a big difference, but if pushing on or on a track then it will be more apparent. 

In my own situation i'm glad that I have it as it means that come resale time my car will (hopefully) be more desirable.  

Good luck in your search !

[Flytvr]

1 minute ago, Martin F said:

In my own situation i'm glad that I have it as it means that come resale time my car will (hopefully) be more desirable.  

^ This. We already see IS-Fs with a mechanical LSD being more attractive to many buyers. Does the LSD make that much difference to the average driver..... does it heck. But, many will feel they have to have an LSD.

 

21 minutes ago, Comedian said:

Also claims of power loss due to TVD (sorry @Flytvr)-

Not sure. All I will say is that I've had a rolling drag with an RCF which had the (old fashioned entry level ) mechanical diff, and the results...... not bad  

[Big Rat]

@Martin F As regards numbers with and with out TVD.......

Rcf non carbon169 cars registered 

I have the specs of 106.........

Of those 106 cars 14 were Press magazine articles journalists use all had TVD.

Of the remaining cars the 92.....

4 of them have TVD

That leaves the 63 I have no info about as yet, but if you look at the percentages there really aren’t that many in all probability that we’re private from new that had TVD.

Bearing in mind that there are virtually none given out any more  for reviews in the price bracket that @antspants is looking for.

I could be wrong it’s happened once before 

Big Rat

[ThebigC]

@antspants if you are in no serious rush I start on the 12th at Lexus Stoke and hope to bring a more personal experience to all Lexus customers, i can keep my ear to the ground for you on other RCF's that come on the market if the RCF that lexus Stoke has in interests you please get in contact with myself or the centre and arrange a test-drive.

Thanks

Charlie

 

P.s they are absolutely cracking cars 😀

[Guest]

Not sure. All I will say is that I've had a rolling drag with an RCF which had the (old fashioned entry level ) mechanical diff, and the results...... not bad  

https://www.hindawi.com/journals/tswj/2014/523281/ some light reading for you :D

TVD adds clutches so it would make sense that it may/could/potentially sap a bit more power between engine and wheels.

I'm not saying it does. Evidence is only anecdotal and inconclusive.

Sent from my STV100-4 using Tapatalk

[Martin F]

@Big Rat I hope you're right, as it will make my 'common' blue one more desirable 

It's just I recall that when I was looking for mine TVD versions were more plentiful, but a look at what's for sale at the moment, certainly seems to indicate they are rarer. 

[Big Rat]

@Martin F Yes there have been a fair few blue ones in recent months, and any of the 'F' cars really suit that colour which no doubt is why they are so popular and of course it is a great colour anyway.

Yeah I know I'm a bit Of a geek with facts and figures about the 'F' range of cars but it does have it's uses when others and not just myself come to buy them used.

As regards residuals well that's another matter all together, there are/were so few options anyway mine has them all except for TVD so for instance does my sunroof make it more desirable to someone come sale time than TVD I don't have the answer all down to the individual buyer I guess.

Think we both agree though they are a great car and I'm immensely pleased with mine, drove 2 M4 BMW's in the week not done so for a couple of years it was great to have a go in something different that is often said to be a rival they were.......... quick I mean urgently so... 

Big Rat

[Flytvr]

When I was looking, TVD was a must. Only ever heard good things about it.

[ColinBarber]

6 hours ago, Comedian said:

TVD adds clutches so it would make sense that it may/could/potentially sap a bit more power between engine and wheels.

I'm not saying it does. Evidence is only anecdotal and inconclusive.

 

When the TVD isn't active then the diff operates as a standard open diff. Only when the electronics want to put more power to one wheel are the clutches engaged.

Unlike other TVDs which apply a brake to the wheel you want to reduce torque to (thereby losing power), the Toyota/Lexus design adds torque to the other wheel which makes it very efficient.

[Jon_B]

I was the same as @Flytvr, I wanted TVD due to only reading good things.  I’ve only had the car for two weeks and the snow has limited me using it this weekend.  I have used it with the TVD power disribution screen and it seems to be doing the right thing.  It certainly corners much tighter than my ISF did, like it’s on rails.  Can’t be sure that this is due to the TVD or just RCF in general though.

[MNMJ]

10 hours ago, Comedian said:

 we don't have a single red rcf owner on board here.

 

Mine is red....and has been been for 2 1/2 years. My IS-F was too.

Are we a discriminated against minority?

[MNMJ]

But I've not got a TVD. I don't think I have the talent to benefit from it, but I agree that the perception of value would increase resale price or speed of sale 

[Guest]

When the TVD isn't active then the diff operates as a standard open diff. Only when the electronics want to put more power to one wheel are the clutches engaged.
Unlike other TVDs which apply a brake to the wheel you want to reduce torque to (thereby losing power), the Toyota/Lexus design adds torque to the other wheel which makes it very efficient.

I understand that and have stated it is the technically superior system. I don't disagree with any of that.

Sometimes fun can be engineered out though.

It is possible to be going slower but having more fun. Hope that makes sense.

OP should test both for himself is probably the honest best answer :)

Sent from my STV100-4 using Tapatalk

[Guest]

Mine is red....and has been been for 2 1/2 years. My IS-F was too.
Are we a discriminated against minority?

I'm sorry! Yes, yes you are :(



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[MNMJ]

And I thought with Jeremy Corbyn coming to power that red would be the new colour of choice. All you blue ones will be the first up against the wall.....

[Big Rat]

@MNMJYeah that's right matey and I would have made sure they all got a 'Silver' bullit, but unfortunately I've had a bit of a 'Black' out now and my aim ain't  so good 

Big Rat

[Flytvr]

9 hours ago, Comedian said:

I understand that and have stated it is the technically superior system. I don't disagree with any of that.

Sometimes fun can be engineered out though.

It is possible to be going slower but having more fun. Hope that makes sense.

OP should test both for himself is probably the honest best answer :)

Sent from my STV100-4 using Tapatalk
 

Don’t forget TVD is configurable. I was recently told by a much more talented driver than I, that in race mode, when pushed, the rear is very loose.

As for having fun at low speeds, all F cars fall short - tricky diff or not.

[Big Rat]

They just need the owner to add noise to compliment the poise.

🐀

[antspants]

Thank you very much for all the replies and information, gave me plenty of interesting reading this morning, clearly a very active and friendly forum particularly when you consider how few owners there are compared to other makes. 

I like the sound of the TVD dialling out any understeer, I have a car now with a good front end on it and might find that a real frustration. But need to have a go in a non-TVD car to see whether it's an issue or not. 

The Stoke car has disappeared off the Lexus website and AT so assume it's sold already. But Charlie I'll get in touch because Stoke isn't too far from where I work in Lichfield so if you can help source a car that could be ideal. My car is in for replacement windscreen then MOT this week so need to sort that first anyway. 

I will have more questions as I start to look at individual cars, and I'm sure I'll want to upgrade the exhaust as I have the Porsche Sports Exhaust on my current car which sounds great and is loud in a car with minimal insulation compared to an RCF. I had a test drive in a C63 and thought that was quiet with all the windows up so am expecting the RCF to be even more so. Need to do a bit more reading on the various options available.