Smug or What

[Dixgas]

Following the latest news regarding the possibility of banning diesels from some city centres, are you hybrid drivers feeling a little smug today?, I know I am.

[rayaans]

7 minutes ago, Dixgas said:

Following the latest news regarding the possibility of banning diesels from some city centres, are you hybrid drivers feeling a little smug today?, I know I am.

It was always bound to happen. 

Porsche has removed all diesel vehicles from the lineup and of course, its not going to do the diesel Porsche's already on the road any favours in terms of resale price which will be going down. 

With modern petrol engines and hybrids, there really is no reason to go for a diesel unless doing galactic mileages per year

[Farqui]

I hadn't seen/read anything about that, in the UK right? - off to Google it...

Last year we found out that several cities on the continent e.g Antwerp had implemented low emission zones (LEZ) to restrict traffic.  We easily managed to register the big 3.5l Hybrid and get an exemption, which seems bonkers. 

Oh and yes, it made me  especially as I bought the Lexus after selling my 2.2 derv which wouldn't be allowed there.

[colin79666]

Quite smug yes but we are so far behind the times in this country/continent. The EU has had a thing about CO2 but kept quiet about diesel for years. Japan was banning some diesel commercial vehicles from Tokyo in 2000 but in the EU has done little (where big companies like VW and PSA would stand to lose out).

Even after the VW scandal (and some not good finding about Mercedes and BMW also) very little action has been taken due to German government pressure - just look at the difference across the pond. Of course the UK government has dug a hole for itself by effectively promoting diesel for years by taxing based on CO2.

Diesel still has its place for large commercial vehicles and those doing big motorway mileages but it never was a good solution for low and moderate mileages, especially in city scenarios. A euro 6 diesel is actually not that bad but they all get tarred with the same brush. The car industry complain but they only have themselves to blame for milking old technology for years and not investing enough in alternatives for the future.

[dutchie01]

it depends on the country i guess. since 2008 germany had environmental zones in some major cities banning older diesels from entering. this is now widespread to all cities and the demands are getting tougher and tougher and some cities are banning all diesels within 2years. same in holland/italy. scandinavia propably even stronger just look at norway. ( BTW Volvo announced today they will not develop any new petrol or diesel engines!)  The car industry will produce anything they can sell so if there is a market for E-cars ( as now emerging in a big way) they will  develop a product for that.  

[paulrnx]

There may even be a ban on the sale of all petrol and diesel engined cars much earlier than previously 'planned'. This one has a long way to go before we get real clarity about what is going to happen in the future. I'm sure I read somewhere that cars are only responsible for something like 23% of the total pollution. And yet it is cars that get it in the neck every time and owners who are forced to change or encouraged to change, often at great cost, just so that politicians and the green brigade can feel like they are making a difference. Euro 6 compliant cars are so much more efficient and less polluting than older cars so the drive should be to get people out of their very old cars and into newer cars. But with the right incentives in place to make it less prohibitively expensive for normal people to do this.

[Bluesman]

15 minutes ago, paulrnx said:

There may even be a ban on the sale of all petrol and diesel engined cars much earlier than previously 'planned'. This one has a long way to go before we get real clarity about what is going to happen in the future. I'm sure I read somewhere that cars are only responsible for something like 23% of the total pollution. And yet it is cars that get it in the neck every time and owners who are forced to change or encouraged to change, often at great cost, just so that politicians and the green brigade can feel like they are making a difference. Euro 6 compliant cars are so much more efficient and less polluting than older cars so the drive should be to get people out of their very old cars and into newer cars. But with the right incentives in place to make it less prohibitively expensive for normal people to do this.

The only problem with banning petrol/diesel engines vehicles is what are they going to run on? Electricity? never in a million years. There are millions of people who live in large towns and cities who are lucky to get within a bus ride of the road they live in let alone get close enough to be able to plug it into their electricity supply and of course that also assumes that the local drunks on their way home won't rip the charging lead out of the car. Electric vehicles, won't happen.

[paulrnx]

1 minute ago, Bluesman said:

The only problem with banning petrol/diesel engines vehicles is what are they going to run on? Electricity? never in a million years. There are millions of people who live in large towns and cities who are lucky to get within a bus ride of the road they live in let alone get close enough to be able to plug it into their electricity supply and of course that also assumes that the local drunks on their way home won't rip the charging lead out of the car. Electric vehicles, won't happen.

I know I know. And what about the massive loss of tax revenue because no-one is buying petrol and diesel any more. Electricity would be taxed to the point where the loss in fuel taxes was made up by taxes on electricity. It's just headline sensationalist policies and not very well thought out. I doubt there is enough spare capacity in the current grid to support a move to electric cars and the lead-times for new power stations are immense, especially for nuclear powered stations. Could cover the country in windfarms I suppose...

[Linas.P]

They just going to tax you on something else - government will always find way to tax.

I think my only problem is that nobody is interested in really understanding pollution problem and design correct solution to reduce it. So we tax cars on exhaust emission, before it was purely CO2  , now NOx came into picture, but there are much more pollutants, particle matter, heavy metals, chemicals etc. Even electric or hybrids cars still pollutes, in making batteries and in electricity they use. I think it is just wrong to only focus about pollution coming directly from the car whilst turning blind eye on global pollution problems.. 

But again I am not expecting anything to change as for government is convenient to scapegoat drivers, because we are easy unorganised targets even though transportation only contributes 14% of overall pollution, and heating, electricity, farming and heavy industries all contribute much more, but none are publicly crucified, because they have large and powerful lobbies behind them. 

[KenMavor]

Personally, I would much rather have direct taxation than the hidden, indirect taxes.

VAT, sales tax, CGT, IHT, etc.

Work out how much the indirect taxes bring in and increase income tax accordingly and apply other taxes in agreed situations.  I would also increase taxes for those earning more than a certain amount.

[Linas.P]

I would rather reduce benefits for..... ooopss that is way above the level of this tread. 

In short I do agree that taxation need to be more transparent and ring fenced, for the purpose e.g. you would think that all car related taxes would be reinvested into improving road infrastructure - far cry from that! From £30-40bn raised annually, barely £10bn gets spent (or rather wasted) per parliament term, so 90% just goes in as general taxation - nice cash cow... we are.

Second point - there are large number (mostly diesel) of car which are cheap to tax based on the CO2 level, but in reality they drive around with smokescreens. Not everything can be achieved from the office desk with the tax adjustments, some people need to be on the road conducting road tests and finding and fining such cars.

[paulrnx]

On 3/16/2018 at 3:10 PM, KenMavor said:

Personally, I would much rather have direct taxation than the hidden, indirect taxes.

VAT, sales tax, CGT, IHT, etc.

Work out how much the indirect taxes bring in and increase income tax accordingly and apply other taxes in agreed situations.  I would also increase taxes for those earning more than a certain amount.

This is how the current tax system works already. The more you earn the more tax you pay. If you earn over £45,500 you pay 40% tax on everything over that £45k (actually 41% because of the additional 1% NI). Over £150,000 a year and you pay a higher rate of tax still.