70,000 miles

[rayaans]

12 hours ago, Carl1983 said:

Yes a Nissan leaf haha 

Providing you have a driveway to charge it. 

[Carl1983]

HAHA yeh very good point 

[PaulWhitt20]

Still off topic, but it makes me wonder how we can achieve the future of all electric car usage when most cars are parked on the road overnight. I see the future where everyone is tripping over electric cables training along the pavement and mischievous kids unplugging them. Perhaps the future lies in not charging the batteries but replacing them when they go flat.

"Any fuel today sir,? 

"No thank you but could I have 400 AA batteries please?"

I wonder how long it would take to put them in...

[Bluesman]

13 minutes ago, PaulWhitt20 said:

Still off topic, but it makes me wonder how we can achieve the future of all electric car usage when most cars are parked on the road overnight. I see the future where everyone is tripping over electric cables training along the pavement and mischievous kids unplugging them. Perhaps the future lies in not charging the batteries but replacing them when they go flat.

"Any fuel today sir,? 

"No thank you but could I have 400 AA batteries please?"

I wonder how long it would take to put them in...

The above is assuming you can park anywhere near your house.

[rayaans]

1 hour ago, PaulWhitt20 said:

Still off topic, but it makes me wonder how we can achieve the future of all electric car usage when most cars are parked on the road overnight. I see the future where everyone is tripping over electric cables training along the pavement and mischievous kids unplugging them. Perhaps the future lies in not charging the batteries but replacing them when they go flat.

"Any fuel today sir,? 

"No thank you but could I have 400 AA batteries please?"

I wonder how long it would take to put them in...

Underground network of roads lined with plugs 😂

[cruisermark]

1 hour ago, PaulWhitt20 said:

Still off topic, but it makes me wonder how we can achieve the future of all electric car usage when most cars are parked on the road overnight. I see the future where everyone is tripping over electric cables training along the pavement and mischievous kids unplugging them. Perhaps the future lies in not charging the batteries but replacing them when they go flat.

"Any fuel today sir,? 

"No thank you but could I have 400 AA batteries please?"

I wonder how long it would take to put them in...

You mean the Mercedes AA Class

 

[Mr Vlad]

When the day comes that all cars are electric cars the charging of them will be of the wireless type that's available today with mobile phones for instance. 

That day however is a long long way off because the replacement of the lithium batteries  (which I have read they're being worked upon) is a good while off. This new Battery will hold more charge and it'll charge up very quickly too without sapping the national grid.

I'm no expert but where it matters I take a big interest and read the articles related to this subject. 

[ganzoom]

11 hours ago, PaulWhitt20 said:

Still off topic, but it makes me wonder how we can achieve the future of all electric car usage when most cars are parked on the road overnight. I see the future where everyone is tripping over electric cables training along the pavement and mischievous kids unplugging them. Perhaps the future lies in not charging the batteries but replacing them when they go flat.

 

350KW rapid chargers are already been deployed, in theory theses charges will add 250 miles of range in around 10 minutes, not quite petrol pump speeds but not far off. The Battery tech that can handle that kind of energy transfer isn't here yet, Teslas are still the only cars that have a Battery can which can accept 120KW sustained. 

http://www.bpva.org.uk/members/bpva/news/porsche-s-first-350-kw-charging-station-now-ready-in-germany-2nd-to-be-installed-in-atlanta/

As for domestic car charging, certainly around where I live every new build (event flats) seem to have allocated off road parking, I suspect having the ability to charge the car will become like having a flushing loo or central heating. The actual 'work' needed to add an external 32amp supply to an existing house electric circuit in most case is minimal. I've just had a second EV charging socket installed at the house in preparation of replacing our IS300H with an EV in 12-18 months time.  

I've now covered 27K miles in various EVs, I've done a 670 mile road trip from the Midland to Scotland with our 18 months old daughter, a 320 miles work trip with 6 adults in the car and the most ext ordinary thing about those trips were the lack of drama, infact they were so unexciting we are now planning an European road trip this summer to really push the range limits. The Battery tech is already good enough.  

Jaguar are about to launch the iPace, Mercedes/Audi both have similar EVS ready for market in the next 12 months, VW has slated 2019 for the launch of their 'affordable'. 

The world is moving on quite quickly, the longer Lexus waits to get in on the EV bandwagon the more they will struggle to catch up. If Lexus offer an EV version of the IS I would buy it without a second thought, but they don't so our money will be going to either Tesla or Jaguar, in 18 months time I hope we as a house hold will never ever have to visit a petrol station again :). 

[ganzoom]

2 hours ago, Mr Vlad said:

That day however is a long long way off because the replacement of the lithium batteries  (which I have read they're being worked upon) is a good while off. This new battery will hold more charge and it'll charge up very quickly too without sapping the national grid. 

 

You right about replacement for lithium ion batteries been a long way off, probably a decade before the next generation solid state Battery actually comes to market. But the logic of having a bigger Battery than can charge up without requiring energy from the grid doesn't make any sense.

Tesla have just opened their second 50 station supercharger - When fully occupied that site will need 3.8 MW of electricity. Tesla use Battery storage to keep demand/power draw under control. Bare-in mind Tesla superchargers 'only' run at 120KW, if that was a station of 50 350KW chargers the electrical drain would be huge, your looking at a whole new substation. Realistically the only way this kind of peak demand can be meet is with additional Battery storage, so have a bank of batteries next to the chargers which charge up during off peak times, and than release the electricity into cars when demand is high, but not draw any additional energy from the local grid. 

https://electrek.co/2018/01/26/tesla-largest-supercharger-station-world/

[ganzoom]

If any of you guys still aren't convinced EVs are the future why not have a look at what Porsche has just put up on their website. 

https://newsroom.porsche.com/en/company/porsche-70-years-sports-car-new-year-reception-anniversary-356-no-1-roadster-ferry-porsche-ferdinand-alexander-porsche-tradition-future-mission-e-oliver-blume-14750.html

The fact the CEO of Porsche chooses to mark the 70th year of Porsche been in existence by lining up the first car Porsche produced next to their up and coming Mission E tells you all you need to know about which direction Porsche see the future of cars going.......There is loads of stuff I do like about our IS300H but Lexus please please start taking EV seriously, the future is around the corner and coming fast!!!

[doog442]

The issue as stated is firstly the price and secondly how to charge the thing if you live in a house with on street parking or in a block of flats..in other words millions of people.

This EV thing will move as quickly as Battery technology and charging allows. ..and that is S...L...O..W

I would rather the Govt put funding into subsidising and improving public transport in the first instance. 

[Mr Vlad]

Well put there Gang. Your post reminded me about a company I used to deliver to in Sheffield. Can' remember their name but in essence what they do is make equipment that takes out the hydrogen in air and water and use that hydrogen to make electricity. They even have a car charging dock which they said is free to use. The stuff they make is the size of a big container and they cost around £1 million. I think hydrogen power will come before the solid state batteries. 

I saw that lamborghini are going g to make a new flagship car to replace the murchelago. It will be hybrid.

This is a damn good thread.

[rayaans]

20 hours ago, Mr Vlad said:

When the day comes that all cars are electric cars the charging of them will be of the wireless type that's available today with mobile phones for instance. 

That day however is a long long way off because the replacement of the lithium batteries  (which I have read they're being worked upon) is a good while off. This new battery will hold more charge and it'll charge up very quickly too without sapping the national grid.

I'm no expert but where it matters I take a big interest and read the articles related to this subject. 

Doubt they'll be charged wirelessly - its too slow 

And fast-charging means reduced Battery life

So some punter is going to have to replace the batteries at some point - probably at a huge cost

[ganzoom]

1 hour ago, rayaans said:

Doubt they'll be charged wirelessly - its too slow 

And fast-charging means reduced battery life

So some punter is going to have to replace the batteries at some point - probably at a huge cost

 

Wireless charging is slow and inefficient - there is no need for it. 

Current EV Battery packs are suffering little from multiple/repeated rapid charging. Tesla packs are showing less than 10% degradation at 150K+ miles!!! - Note this is for the original 85kWh packs. 

https://www.teslarati.com/how-long-will-tesla-battery-last-degradation/

However the chemistry in the cells is vital, for a period of 12 months or so in 2016 Tesla introduced a more aggressive chemistry to create the 90kWh packs. There is now clear evidence these packs degrade at nearly double the rate of the original 85, and Tesla have limited how quickly they can be supercharged. Tesla has since gone back to the same chemistry as in the original 85kWh packs. 

https://electrek.co/2017/05/07/tesla-limits-supercharging-speed-number-charges/

As for pack replacement costs, it is something no one has to worry about for long while yet. Most EV are still too new and packs under warranty. Cost of lithium ion packs have been falling consistently and latest estimate say it will half in cost again by 2025. 

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2017-12-05/latest-bull-case-for-electric-cars-the-cheapest-batteries-ever

[rayaans]

19 hours ago, ganzoom said:

 

Wireless charging is slow and inefficient - there is no need for it. 

Current EV battery packs are suffering little from multiple/repeated rapid charging. Tesla packs are showing less than 10% degradation at 150K+ miles!!! - Note this is for the original 85kWh packs. 

https://www.teslarati.com/how-long-will-tesla-battery-last-degradation/

However the chemistry in the cells is vital, for a period of 12 months or so in 2016 Tesla introduced a more aggressive chemistry to create the 90kWh packs. There is now clear evidence these packs degrade at nearly double the rate of the original 85, and Tesla have limited how quickly they can be supercharged. Tesla has since gone back to the same chemistry as in the original 85kWh packs. 

https://electrek.co/2017/05/07/tesla-limits-supercharging-speed-number-charges/

As for pack replacement costs, it is something no one has to worry about for long while yet. Most EV are still too new and packs under warranty. Cost of lithium ion packs have been falling consistently and latest estimate say it will half in cost again by 2025. 

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2017-12-05/latest-bull-case-for-electric-cars-the-cheapest-batteries-ever

Maybe the batteries are reducing in price but I don't see this affecting Tesla price. They're all hideously expensive for what they are.

The interior quality of every Tesla is shocking as is their quality control. Mercedes get trolled for it on their sub £30k A class so I find it hilarious how Tesla don't get it. Must be rose tinted glasses

[ganzoom]

8 hours ago, rayaans said:

Maybe the batteries are reducing in price but I don't see this affecting Tesla price. They're all hideously expensive for what they are.

The interior quality of every Tesla is shocking as is their quality control. Mercedes get trolled for it on their sub £30k A class so I find it hilarious how Tesla don't get it. Must be rose tinted glasses

 

What does a drop in Battery pack price have any relevance to Tesla? The reason I quote Tesla is because to date they are still the only manufacture production large Battery packs with any kind of public degradation data. 

 

As I've already mentioned Jag is about to launch the iPace (March I believe), Audi has the eTron coming in Q3 2018. Both will likely be priced in RX bracket. It will cost £5-10 to 'fill up' an iPace/eTron compared to £70-80 for the RX. Add in almost guaranteed better driving performance, no engine noise, and less servicing costs you are going to have to really really want a petrol car to spend the same money on a RX.

 

I have no idea what Lexus/Toyota plans are for life after the combustion engine, I really hope it's still not fuel cells.....I didnt realise hydrogen fuel cell cars take 30 seconds to 'start' in cold weather. Most people barely have enough patience to turn the ignition key, imagine getting in the car pressing the on switch and waiting half a minute before you can move!! And that's for the 'newest' hydrogen fuel cell car to market, the old ones took 1 minutes, no wonder Toyota has taken 3 years to shift just 3000 in California - But apparently Toyota sees that as some kind of achievement, oh well. 

http://thenewswheel.com/toyota-celebrates-3000th-mirai-sale-in-california/

[rayaans]

1 hour ago, ganzoom said:

 

What does a drop in battery pack price have any relevance to Tesla? The reason I quote Tesla is because to date they are still the only manufacture production large battery packs with any kind of public degradation data. 

 

As I've already mentioned Jag is about to launch the iPace (March I believe), Audi has the eTron coming in Q3 2018. Both will likely be priced in RX bracket. It will cost £5-10 to 'fill up' an iPace/eTron compared to £70-80 for the RX. Add in almost guaranteed better driving performance, no engine noise, and less servicing costs you are going to have to really really want a petrol car to spend the same money on a RX.

 

I have no idea what Lexus/Toyota plans are for life after the combustion engine, I really hope it's still not fuel cells.....I didnt realise hydrogen fuel cell cars take 30 seconds to 'start' in cold weather. Most people barely have enough patience to turn the ignition key, imagine getting in the car pressing the on switch and waiting half a minute before you can move!! And that's for the 'newest' hydrogen fuel cell car to market, the old ones took 1 minutes, no wonder Toyota has taken 3 years to shift just 3000 in California - But apparently Toyota sees that as some kind of achievement, oh well. 

http://thenewswheel.com/toyota-celebrates-3000th-mirai-sale-in-california/

Toyota have already confirmed they'll have an electric model for each vehicle in their lineup by 2020. 

They're a huge company - they'll have a huge market share as they have plenty of experience with batteries since 2005 if not earlier. 

Service costs are barely any different. Have you seen Tesla service costs? I doubt the maintenance is ever going to be cheaper. 

Do you really think any company would reduce their service prices and lose income for their fancy showrooms, no chance.

[ganzoom]

12 minutes ago, rayaans said:

Service costs are barely any different. Have you seen Tesla service costs? I doubt the maintenance is ever going to be cheaper. 

 

Tesla 'servicing' is nothing more than a visual inspection, my final sales invoice also states the 4 year 50K bumper to bumper warranty as well as the 8 year unlimited miles warranty on the battery/motor IS NOT affected if you NEVER 'service' the car!! How many combustion car manufactures are brave enough to say that in their warranties. I have no intention of sending our to Tesla for anything other than warranty work :)

 

EVs are also not just about Tesla, in a few months people will have aplenty of choice which will help to really increase EV adoption. I look forwards to seeing the first Lexus EV, as far as am concerned it cannot happen quickly enough. 

[Guest]

 
, as far as am concerned it cannot happen quickly enough. 

Why is that?


Sent from my STV100-4 using Tapatalk

[rayaans]

13 hours ago, ganzoom said:

 

Tesla 'servicing' is nothing more than a visual inspection, my final sales invoice also states the 4 year 50K bumper to bumper warranty as well as the 8 year unlimited miles warranty on the battery/motor IS NOT affected if you NEVER 'service' the car!! How many combustion car manufactures are brave enough to say that in their warranties. I have no intention of sending our to Tesla for anything other than warranty work :)

 

EVs are also not just about Tesla, in a few months people will have aplenty of choice which will help to really increase EV adoption. I look forwards to seeing the first Lexus EV, as far as am concerned it cannot happen quickly enough. 

Fair enough, maybe the warranty is not affected but resale value certainly will be

How many people do you know that will buy a car without a service history costing more than £30k?

[Farqui]

I've been curious about Tesla owner comments regarding no servicing required yet they still use hydraulic brakes, AC, etc all of which need regular maintenance like any other vehicle. So after a quick interweb trawl, I see that annual services are required and aren't free either; https://www.tesla.com/en_GB/support/maintenance-plans 

I saw an interesting You Tube vid recently that compared several years of true Tesla ownership to a Civic and a Beemer and Tesla wasn't head and shoulders over either alternative.  It didn't seem to be bashing 'ev' ownership, just layout out the various details.  I'll try and dig out the link if anyone is interested.

I'm not sold by the acclaimed Tesla revolution but commend folks that have taken the leap with any of the new players to the market.

Oh crumbs, I've just re-read this threads opening post and the topic seems to have digressed somewhat 

[Simon b]

I’m viewing a 64 plate F sport at the weekend. 73k but Lexus service history. Thanks for all the input. 

[Simon b]

Picking the car up on Saturday.. it’s been a loooong week so far..

[bobmc]

I bet! You'll have to start a new topic, this one drifted waaaaayyyyy off topic :)