Is 250 II brakes upgrade

[Lobex]

On 23. 1. 2018 at 8:04 PM, Linas.P said:

Just because they are standard 17" for mk2 - my car used to have set of these wheels originally, there are no way to get it wrong. Pre-face lift cars had two options:

18":

17":

Again, it seems (apparently) 17" clears IS350 brakes - I personally would go for 18" regardless... just in case - it looks tight with 17".

I was actually thinking about 18" for the summer tire but I would still like to keep the 17" for the winter because it's easier to get the tires. I also asked my mechanic for any sugestions and than i'll decide.  Thanks for all the info 👍

[Tango]

Members who say 17'' wheels fit over IS350 calipers are correct, but to relate this to upgrading the IS250 with IS350 calipers and discs is completely wrong . The IS250/220D hub is different than the IS350 hub, so although the IS350 calipers are a direct bolt on without modification, they do not have the same clearance as they have on a 350 hub. The standard 17'' wheel does not therefore fit over the IS350 caliper when it is bolted to the IS250 hub. Exdee has already stated this fact, but it appears either no one read his post or the misunderstanding continues,

I know for a fact that the 350 and 250 hubs are different because I still have a pair of new IS350 backplates/dustcovers that I purchased in the USA believing I could fit these bigger diameter plates when doing the brake mod, but they do not fit.

[Linas.P]

On 1/28/2018 at 11:26 AM, Tango said:

Exdee has already stated this fact, but it appears either no one read his post or the misunderstanding continues,

Sorry, I assumed that "bolt-on" is when you upgrade IS250 with IS350 brakes including hubs. What I have missed is that you can simply replace calipers and disks without changing hubs.

[Tango]

I don't know if a hub conversion is even possible without knowledge of the full front suspension set-up. Here's a few pics of the calipers as received, another when deciding whether to paint them all black or black with polished face and the car with the new discs and calipers. The pads were Hawk ceramic which provided excellent progressive braking with very little dusting, unlike the high dust grabby standard set-up. The car was on Eibach American specification lowering springs with 1.5 inch drop on the front and 1 inch drop on the rear. Having a drop of more than 30mm on the front required the fitting of a camber kit to bring the geometry back within the Lexus specified tolerances.

[Linas.P]

Not sure where hub theory came into my mind... probably memory issue... from the past I have looked to thread below and could swear the guy replaced hubs, but reading it again - no mention of the hubs:

https://www.clublexus.com/forums/suspension-and-brakes/405811-is350-brake-upgrade-on-is250.html

[Lobex]

Hm, I guess I'll be staying on standard dimensions. Thanks for the info Tango, not even my mechanic knew of this diference.  

But I would still like to get a 4 piston front caliper if its possible . Does anyone have any suggestions? 

[J Henderson]

You can import them from http://www.rockauto.com

 

[Lobex]

On 29. 1. 2018 at 6:58 PM, Tango said:

I don't know if a hub conversion is even possible without knowledge of the full front suspension set-up. Here's a few pics of the calipers as received, another when deciding whether to paint them all black or black with polished face and the car with the new discs and calipers. The pads were Hawk ceramic which provided excellent progressive braking with very little dusting, unlike the high dust grabby standard set-up. The car was on Eibach American specification lowering springs with 1.5 inch drop on the front and 1 inch drop on the rear. Having a drop of more than 30mm on the front required the fitting of a camber kit to bring the geometry back within the Lexus specified tolerances.

What about the steering knuckles, do I have to replace them also or just the hubs? I'm asking because the caliper fixes to the knuckle and if the holes don't match than I have a new problem.. If it's just the hubs and if they are really that cheap (https://www.rockauto.com/en/catalog/lexus,2007,is350,3.5l+v6,1434544,brake+&+wheel+hub,wheel+bearing+&+hub+assembly,1636) than it's a nobrainer, I'm definitely doing it. And the 17" will definitely clear the 350s rotors and calipers?

[Lobex]

On 20. 1. 2018 at 12:57 PM, Exdee said:

The hub on the IS350 is different. Unless you are going to replace the hub too the stock 17" wheels won't clear. 

The clearance is fine as far as the diameter goes but offset is an issue. 17 wheels with a more aggressive offset will clear.

And I know all of this as I too found the brakes on the IS250 inadequate!

So the original 17" won't clear?

[Lobex]

On 7. 2. 2018 at 8:46 PM, Lobex said:

So the original 17" won't clear?

Sorry I quoted wrong. What I meant to ask you was if I change the hub will the original 17"  clear or not? And do I need to change the steering knuckles also or are they the same? Thanks 

[Lobex]

On 30. 1. 2018 at 7:57 PM, Linas.P said:

Not sure where hub theory came into my mind... probably memory issue... from the past I have looked to thread below and could swear the guy replaced hubs, but reading it again - no mention of the hubs:

https://www.clublexus.com/forums/suspension-and-brakes/405811-is350-brake-upgrade-on-is250.html

So if I change the hub too the 17" original wheels will clear? Do you know anything about the steering knuckles. Do they have to be replaced also? Thanks.. 

[Linas.P]

I really don't know. If anything I would just upgrade the wheel to 18" ... just in case rather than caring about geometry of the car later.. Previously I just wrongly assumed that the bolt-on upgrade includes hubs, but upon reading the thread again it is clear hub change would impact much more than just a brake calipers fitting. 

Is there any reason why you want  to stay with 17"?

 

[Lobex]

On 20. 2. 2018 at 9:21 PM, Linas.P said:

I really don't know. If anything I would just upgrade the wheel to 18" ... just in case rather than caring about geometry of the car later.. Previously I just wrongly assumed that the bolt-on upgrade includes hubs, but upon reading the thread again it is clear hub change would impact much more than just a brake calipers fitting. 

Is there any reason why you want  to stay with 17"?

 

I was actually thinking of going on 18" for the summer tire but keep the 17" for the winter because it's much easier to get the tires.  But I guess I'll be driving 18" the whole year round and wory about the tires when it comes to that. And you say that with 18" I can do the 350 upgrade without changing the hubs or anything else?

[Linas.P]

Yes, that seems to be the case - only calipers, discs and pads obviously. I believe rear dust shields won't fit IS250 hubs, so you will have to do without them.

[Lobex]

On 1. 3. 2018 at 7:19 PM, Linas.P said:

Yes, that seems to be the case - only calipers, discs and pads obviously. I believe rear dust shields won't fit IS250 hubs, so you will have to do without them.

Linas.P, thanks a million!! Let me ask you one more thing. I decided to buy just the performance disks for the 250 for now, and than after I have bought the 18" wheels I will upgrade the brakes to 350s. I found them on Carid but I am not sure if the American Lexus IS 250 identical to the Japanese one, regarding the brakes ofcourse?  Thanks

[Linas.P]

They would be identical, however my personal opinion - it would be waste of money.

First of all you would need new discs anyway when you upgrade your calipers to ones from IS350, so you get the discs now and then throw them away. Secondly, only replacing discs makes no measurable difference - I have fitted sort of "performance" drilled discs and apart from generating more noise, wearing quicker, cracking and warping there were no noticeable benefit in stopping power.

I am going to get mine skimmed soon in a hope of getting the back to the shape as they still have a lot of thickness left, but I would not advise getting anything but most generic discs on IS250. The only advantage I had was that they were coated with protective coating, so I have no issue of rusted ventilation channels or the surface which touches the hubs like on the original discs.  Basically, the reason why I was replacing old discs were that they were rusted, ventilation channels blocked by rust flakes and they weren't sitting flush on hubs. Obviously, I could have the rust cleaned on the discs, but I just asked to clean the hubs and ordered new discs.

Better invest in better pads... and if you do order discs make sure if you have ventilated or solid rears as there are difference year to year. Some IS250 have solid some vented discs and it is not trim dependent. I believe it depends on the actual manufacturing date of the car and not even date of registration. Effectively, some cars registered before 2008 have solid rear discs, but some already have ventilated, whereas all the cars after ~ 2008 have only ventilated.  

[Lobex]

5 hours ago, Linas.P said:

They would be identical, however my personal opinion - it would be waste of money.

First of all you would need new discs anyway when you upgrade your calipers to ones from IS350, so you get the discs now and then throw them away. Secondly, only replacing discs makes no measurable difference - I have fitted sort of "performance" drilled discs and apart from generating more noise, wearing quicker, cracking and warping there were no noticeable benefit in stopping power.

I am going to get mine skimmed soon in a hope of getting the back to the shape as they still have a lot of thickness left, but I would not advise getting anything but most generic discs on IS250. The only advantage I had was that they were coated with protective coating, so I have no issue of rusted ventilation channels or the surface which touches the hubs like on the original discs.  Basically, the reason why I was replacing old discs were that they were rusted, ventilation channels blocked by rust flakes and they weren't sitting flush on hubs. Obviously, I could have the rust cleaned on the discs, but I just asked to clean the hubs and ordered new discs.

Better invest in better pads... and if you do order discs make sure if you have ventilated or solid rears as there are difference year to year. Some IS250 have solid some vented discs and it is not trim dependent. I believe it depends on the actual manufacturing date of the car and not even date of registration. Effectively, some cars registered before 2008 have solid rear discs, but some already have ventilated, whereas all the cars after ~ 2008 have only ventilated.  

👍