Swapping GS300 SE for an RX450H

[JeffL]

I'm still thinking about changing my 2007 GS300 SE (65K miles) for a 3RX450H Luxury 2012 facelift onwards. I have the following queries/questions for which I hope I can get answers.

1.     I read a while back about problems when starting the RXs after they had been stood awhile, say 3/4 weeks whilst away on holiday and sometimes when the car had had its doors open for an hour or two for cleaning etc. Can anyone comment on that problem regarding dead Battery or whatever?

2.    When buying a used Lexus from an official Lexus dealer, I believe they come with a 12 month warranty.
a.    If correct, what does this warranty cover?
b.    Does the Lexus dealer service the vehicle before the customer takes delivery or only if the vehicle is due for a service?

3.    Because this is a hybrid (not had one before).
a.    Does the vehicle have to be serviced each year by an official Lexus dealer to maintain some kind of warranty on the hybrid system?
b.    Could some of you tell me what you've paid at official Lexus dealers for services over a similar period for an RX450H as I feel that I’m likely to go to the Lexus dealer for servicing if I get the hybrid?

I currently have the GS300 serviced by my local independent garage and the annual costs including labour, oil, filters and the usual consumables, M.O.T. and V.A.T. have been as follows for the last 8 years. I bought the car when it was just under 2 years old.

2010: £269 (Mileage 22,078)
2011: £383 (Mileage 30,295) including parts and labour for front brake pads of £104
2012: £259 (Mileage 37,461) 
2013: £227 (Mileage 44,558)
2014: £219 (Mileage 50,136)
2015: £290 (Mileage 55,769)
2016: £913 (Mileage 61,206) including parts and labour for rear brake pads and both rear callipers and calliper kit of £673
2017: £226 (Mileage 65,156)

I imagine it will be more expensive at the Lexus dealer.

4.     I’ve seen a 2013 RX450H Luxury for sale at a Lexus dealer for £26,500 (24K miles).
a.     Is this priced accurately?
b.     What sort of percentage discount do you think I could negotiate? (as most of the adverts on the Lexus website say ‘Negotiate on this car’) I might PX for the convenience factor so I do accept that agreeing a keen price on the RX450H will result in a low offer on the GS300, but there is always the option of selling it myself.

6. Last question. Am I mad to consider an RX450H (or any hybrid for that matter) when my regular journeys are mostly 4 miles each way plus the odd motorway run, and I'm only doing about 4K to 5K miles p.a.

All comments very welcome from anyone who can help. Thanks.
 

Edit: I'm a young thinking and fit 70 year old, not a boy racer, just want reliability and nice place to be when I have to travel on these crowded roads of ours!

Edited December 26, 2017 by JeffL
additional info.

[Sandy42]

I can't answer most of your questions but, as young thinking, fit 66 year old, I bought a 4th gen RX450h 6 months ago because it was what I WANTED.

I had a 7 year old IS220d before that.

I do about 3,600 miles a year and it cost me £760 for the 1st intermediate service plus a full service next year at my local Lexus dealership.

Yes, maybe I am mad but, hopefully, I'll still be around in 6 or 7 years to be mad again.

 

 

[katabrontes]

Hi Jeff

I am a young 75 year old (can’t be middle aged as I am not ready to grow up yet)

When my old Toyota truck finally gave up on me 4 years ago I bought a RX350 (2005 but only 28000).  I researched the hybrids etc and several other large 4x4s and concluded that although the hybrid version of the. 2005 RX cost about £3000 more when new it would have cost nearly £8000 more when I bought the 350.  You get a lot of petrol for £8K!

Like you my cars have always been serviced by a local garage.  It’s less expensive and more convenient than driving 40 miles to the nearest Lexus agent.   I was told that most of the servicing on the 450 is the same as the 350 and the only thing Lexus agents have to do is to check and change the coolant in the inverter (I think that was right).  I do about 5000 miles a year, mostly in France, and I reckon the extra cost of the 350 over a hybrid is about 750 a year allowing for the extra road tax and lower mpg but I reckon I would save about £3-400 on not using Lexus for servicing.  If you keep the car for about 5-7 years as you have for the RS then I doubt any buyer would care about a Lexus service history as long as the stamps/receipts were available to produce.  Personally I would look at a good 350 which will cost you a lot less as they don’t have a good market with the current hysteria about emissions and mpg.  I get about 24mpg but on my mileage it isn’ worth bothering about.  The 350 is a lovely car.  I don’t like the look of the newer 450 and I think the front is very ugly.  Other differences are that the 350 is AWD whereas the 450 is a FWD on petrol and RWD on electric with both when you put your foot down..  I thought the alternating drive would feel quite strange but actually I didn’t notice it on a recent test drive.  Lexus dealers do, IMO, overprice and the same spec car will vary surprisingly between them.

Anyway follow your heart and enjoy it whatever you buy.

[katabrontes]

PS check a sunroof carefully (see my comments on recent post about sun roof problems)

[rayaans]

9 hours ago, JeffL said:

I'm still thinking about changing my 2007 GS300 SE (65K miles) for a 3RX450H Luxury 2012 facelift onwards. I have the following queries/questions for which I hope I can get answers.

1.     I read a while back about problems when starting the RXs after they had been stood awhile, say 3/4 weeks whilst away on holiday and sometimes when the car had had its doors open for an hour or two for cleaning etc. Can anyone comment on that problem regarding dead battery or whatever?

2.    When buying a used Lexus from an official Lexus dealer, I believe they come with a 12 month warranty.
a.    If correct, what does this warranty cover?
b.    Does the Lexus dealer service the vehicle before the customer takes delivery or only if the vehicle is due for a service?

3.    Because this is a hybrid (not had one before).
a.    Does the vehicle have to be serviced each year by an official Lexus dealer to maintain some kind of warranty on the hybrid system?
b.    Could some of you tell me what you've paid at official Lexus dealers for services over a similar period for an RX450H as I feel that I’m likely to go to the Lexus dealer for servicing if I get the hybrid?

I currently have the GS300 serviced by my local independent garage and the annual costs including labour, oil, filters and the usual consumables, M.O.T. and V.A.T. have been as follows for the last 8 years. I bought the car when it was just under 2 years old.

2010: £269 (Mileage 22,078)
2011: £383 (Mileage 30,295) including parts and labour for front brake pads of £104
2012: £259 (Mileage 37,461) 
2013: £227 (Mileage 44,558)
2014: £219 (Mileage 50,136)
2015: £290 (Mileage 55,769)
2016: £913 (Mileage 61,206) including parts and labour for rear brake pads and both rear callipers and calliper kit of £673
2017: £226 (Mileage 65,156)

I imagine it will be more expensive at the Lexus dealer.

4.     I’ve seen a 2013 RX450H Luxury for sale at a Lexus dealer for £26,500 (24K miles).
a.     Is this priced accurately?
b.     What sort of percentage discount do you think I could negotiate? (as most of the adverts on the Lexus website say ‘Negotiate on this car’) I might PX for the convenience factor so I do accept that agreeing a keen price on the RX450H will result in a low offer on the GS300, but there is always the option of selling it myself.

6. Last question. Am I mad to consider an RX450H (or any hybrid for that matter) when my regular journeys are mostly 4 miles each way plus the odd motorway run, and I'm only doing about 4K to 5K miles p.a.

All comments very welcome from anyone who can help. Thanks.
 

Edit: I'm a young thinking and fit 70 year old, not a boy racer, just want reliability and nice place to be when I have to travel on these crowded roads of ours!

I've owned every generation of RX bar the 1st so will try my best to answer your questions.

1) the dead Battery affected the 2nd gen RX400h as it had a small Battery. The 3RX appears to be unaffected. I left my 2012 RX F Sport garaged with the alarm on for 4 weeks frequently with no issue.

2) The 12 month warranty covers everything bar wear and tear.  You can also exchange the car up to 30 days/1000 miles whichever is first if you're not happy. Tyres should be changed if they are under 6mm and the car should be serviced if it is due a service within the next 6 months.

3) The vehicle does not need to be serviced by Lexus.  Anyone can service it. However, you would need a separate hybrid health check if servicing independently costing £59 to give you 1 more year of hybrid warranty.

If you opt for extended warranty, you can only service it by Lexus. When servicing by Lexus they include the hybrid health check FOC

I bought my 3RX new. It cost me £190 for 1st service, then I took a service plan for 2 full and 1 intermediate costing £990 and then £245 over 5 years. The price has recently changed last year and is now fixed. It can be found on the Lexus Website. I paid an additional £27 for half price MOT at Lexus due to having service plan. I had no other costs during this time bar wipers which I bought myself and tyres at 26k which I bought and got Lexus yo fit all 4 for £50 total

4) Seems a fair price and it's low mileage. The 60k service is an expensive one but it's miles away. Don't let the dealer talk you into getting a 60k service done at 6 years as they change the spark plugs which are mileage dependent, not time dependent.

Worth remembering that the cars are priced on condition and desperate need to sell, how long it's been lying on the lot and tax breaks for the dealership. It's highly likely that a well priced one needs shifting quicker than one priced a bit over expected

I would expect you to negotiate £500-750. You may be lucky at this time of year and get £1000. Don't expect any more.

For the GS don't expect anything more than Autotrader valuation p/x price. The GS will be flung through auction so won't make much profit for them.

6) it's a petrol hybrid so will be undeniably reliable at those mileages which a diesel would get choked on. Having said that don't expect great fuel economy. I would imagine 25-30mpg which considering the engine and weight of the vehicle isnt bad at all. 

[The-Acre]

For what it's worth my 16 year old LS is in top shape, no reason to sell it at all.  The reason I'm now looking to sell it is to buy a later GS300 which will cost me more to tax, the only reason....I want too!   

[JeffL]

Many thanks for the replies, very enlightening, I really appreciate the time and trouble you've all gone to. 

More questions on the hybrid system.

1. Regarding the annual standalone Hybrid Health Check available at £59 which gives 1 further year warranty (or 10K miles whichever is sooner) up to vehicle age of 10 years. The website says 'Our hybrid technicians will provide you with a written report detailing the system’s health. If work is required to maintain its performance, we will talk you through the points that need attention'. Does this mean that they will repair/replace any defective parts of the hybrid system under warranty because the £59 has been paid each year? Or does the customer have to pay?

2. I presume once the vehicle is 10 years old there are no further warranties available so if anything goes wrong with the hybrid system, the customer pays for repairs or a replacement system?

3. Does anyone on here have any knowledge of any specific ones requiring major work and the costs?

 

Thanks again.
 

[JeffL]

Just noticed something else on the 3RX 450Hs for sale on the Lexus website. The Luxury are fitted with 235/55/R19 19" tyres and the Advance with 235/60/R18 18" tyres.

1. Why the difference?

2. Is 19" or 18" the better choice?

3. Are the wheels on both vehicles the same size and if so can either size tyre be fitted? (I'm thinking Michelin Cross Climates when the time comes to change tyres)

4. rayaans I see you bought 4 tyres and got Lexus to fit them for £50, was this because you only trust Lexus not to damage the TPMS sensor valves?

Edited December 27, 2017 by JeffL
additional info.

[rayaans]

7 hours ago, JeffL said:

Many thanks for the replies, very enlightening, I really appreciate the time and trouble you've all gone to. 

More questions on the hybrid system.

1. Regarding the annual standalone Hybrid Health Check available at £59 which gives 1 further year warranty (or 10K miles whichever is sooner) up to vehicle age of 10 years. The website says 'Our hybrid technicians will provide you with a written report detailing the system’s health. If work is required to maintain its performance, we will talk you through the points that need attention'. Does this mean that they will repair/replace any defective parts of the hybrid system under warranty because the £59 has been paid each year? Or does the customer have to pay?

2. I presume once the vehicle is 10 years old there are no further warranties available so if anything goes wrong with the hybrid system, the customer pays for repairs or a replacement system?

3. Does anyone on here have any knowledge of any specific ones requiring major work and the costs?

 

Thanks again.
 

1) yes I would presume they would cover it under warranty up to 10 years

2) yes once the hybrid Battery warranty from the health check is over you would have to pay the costs. This is unless you opt for extended warranty before 10 years old as Lexus dealers will keep rolling it over year on year if you first took it out before 10 years of age.

3) There are many RX450Hs that have sold and as of yet, I don't think any have had hybrid system issues. They are bulletproof.

6 hours ago, JeffL said:

Just noticed something else on the 3RX 450Hs for sale on the Lexus website. The Luxury are fitted with 235/55/R19 19" tyres and the Advance with 235/60/R18 18" tyres.

1. Why the difference?

2. Is 19" or 18" the better choice?

3. Are the wheels on both vehicles the same size and if so can either size tyre be fitted? (I'm thinking Michelin Cross Climates when the time comes to change tyres)

4. rayaans I see you bought 4 tyres and got Lexus to fit them for £50, was this because you only trust Lexus not to damage the TPMS sensor valves?

1) there is no difference issues an tyre size between luxury, advance, F sport or premier spec.  They are all running on 235/55 r19 

4) Few reasons. The tyres I wanted Lexus didn't supply. These were michelin latitude tour Hp. 

Also it was cheaper by £200 to get my own tyres and have them fit rather than getting the oem tyres from them. I didn't want scratches on the rim either. Lexus use the automated tyre fitting machines with no metal touch points.

I believe £50 was an offer price. I think they usually charge £100 for 4 tyres fitting

TPMS wasn't on my F Sport as it was an early 2012 car. I believe TPMS became standard afterwards. 

[Glover]

I don't know if this helps or muddies the water but my pre-facelift Advance has 19 inch wheels fitted as standard; did this change after the facelift.

[JeffL]

1 hour ago, Glover said:

I don't know if this helps or muddies the water but my pre-facelift Advance has 19 inch wheels fitted as standard; did this change after the facelift.

Hi Geoff, Thanks for your input, all grist to the mill! rayaans will probably know the answer to that, but there are definitely some facelift Advance spec for sale at Lexus dealers at the moment with 18" wheels. The Luxury ones for sale at the moment all appear to have 19".

[Friso]

31 minutes ago, JeffL said:

Hi Geoff, Thanks for your input, all grist to the mill! rayaans will probably know the answer to that, but there are definitely some facelift Advance spec for sale at Lexus dealers at the moment with 18" wheels. The Luxury ones for sale at the moment all appear to have 19".

I myself have been looking to buy a Luxury or Advance for some time and finally succeeded back in August. An update in this respect is long overdue but I'm quite sure that the Advance models don't have different wheel sizes. Have questioned quite a few dealers on this (who all confirmed that the Advance models come with 19" wheels), but this must be a mistake in their systems.

 

[JeffL]

Thanks to everyone who took the trouble to answer my query on 18"/19" tyres. This forum is really really good when getting down to the nitty gritty and everyone is so helpful! Yes you are all correct about them all having 19". What made me query it is the description on the Advance models for sale is as follows. If you click on the link for the car for sale below and then scroll down to the description details you will see under 'Exterior' the offending error which as Friso suggests must be misinformation in the Lexus system for the 450H Advance. Maybe someone on here with the right connections could inform them.

Exterior

• Temporary spare wheel
• HID headlights with auto-levelling
• 18" alloy wheels, 5-spoke design, 235/60 R18
• Rear spoiler, body-coloured

 

https://usedcars.lexus.co.uk/en/used-lexus/Lexus/RX-450h/35-Advance-u3bk4r8

 

Thanks everyone 

 

[rayaans]

16 hours ago, JeffL said:

Thanks to everyone who took the trouble to answer my query on 18"/19" tyres. This forum is really really good when getting down to the nitty gritty and everyone is so helpful! Yes you are all correct about them all having 19". What made me query it is the description on the Advance models for sale is as follows. If you click on the link for the car for sale below and then scroll down to the description details you will see under 'Exterior' the offending error which as Friso suggests must be misinformation in the Lexus system for the 450H Advance. Maybe someone on here with the right connections could inform them.

Exterior

• Temporary spare wheel
• HID headlights with auto-levelling
• 18" alloy wheels, 5-spoke design, 235/60 R18
• Rear spoiler, body-coloured

 

https://usedcars.lexus.co.uk/en/used-lexus/Lexus/RX-450h/35-Advance-u3bk4r8

 

Thanks everyone 

 

Yep all RX grades bar the SE came with 19" wheels and the same size tyres.

The above link has a lot of misinformation in it. 

The advance has ML system with 15 speakers not 9

[JeffL]

Is there a reliable specification link anywhere for the 2012 facelift 3RX Luxury and Advance models?

[rayaans]

43 minutes ago, JeffL said:

Is there a reliable specification link anywhere for the 2012 facelift 3RX Luxury and Advance models?

Not sure on reliability but it should be OK

[JeffL]

36 minutes ago, rayaans said:

Not sure on reliability but it should be OK

Thank you

[Glover]

Happy New Year everybody.

Pre facelift Advance has different audio spec; definitely not ML:-(.  I've attached a pre facelift PDF brochure (hopefully!!)

Lexus RX 450h including RX Advance.pdf

[rayaans]

2 hours ago, Glover said:

Happy New Year everybody.

Pre facelift Advance has different audio spec; definitely not ML:-(.  I've attached a pre facelift PDF brochure (hopefully!!)

Lexus RX 450h including RX Advance.pdf

Post facelift has ML though. 

[JeffL]

Correct, it is the facelift model I'm considering not the pre facelift.

[Friso]

Post facelift has ML from September 2014 if I'm not mistaken.

[DanD]

For the record I concur with all comments above.

The RX is the most reliable car I have ever owned and the service I have received from my dealership is the best I have received from any... to the point that I would not consider moving away from the brand.

I cover in excess of 25k miles per year, I have not had any issue with the car, apart from expected wear and tear: it still drives like it did the day I bought it.

Note that if you buy a car that is over 5 years old, service pricing will be lower that than of a newer car. This is Lexus' way to ensure that you have your car serviced within the network. Pesonally, I would recommend their service plan, which makes a lot of sense. It is inflation proof, includes a discount (I think mine equated to 15%), and spreads the cost of servicing into fixed monthly payments. (NOTE: if you become Member of the LexusOwnersClub, you will benefit from additional discount(s)).

I would also recommend Lexus' extended warranty, which is excellent, although you may need to look into this more closely given your low annual mileage.

On ‎26‎/‎12‎/‎2017 at 8:49 PM, JeffL said:

I'm a young thinking and fit 70 year old, not a boy racer, just want reliability and nice place to be when I have to travel on these crowded roads of ours!

The RX will definitely fit the bill, but if you generally do not cover more than 4 miles at a time, do not expect fuel economy to better 26/27 MPG, especially in the winter.

Can you post the link to the car you are interested in?

[Silversalmon]

43 minutes ago, DanD said:

For the record I concur with all comments above.

The RX is the most reliable car I have ever owned and the service I have received from my dealership is the best I have received from any... to the point that I would not consider moving away from the brand.

I cover in excess of 25k miles per year, I have not had any issue with the car, apart from expected wear and tear: it still drives like it did the day I bought it.

Note that if you buy a car that is over 5 years old, service pricing will be lower that than of a newer car. This is Lexus' way to ensure that you have your car serviced within the network. Pesonally, I would recommend their service plan, which makes a lot of sense. It is inflation proof, includes a discount (I think mine equated to 15%), and spreads the cost of servicing into fixed monthly payments. (NOTE: if you become Member of the LexusOwnersClub, you will benefit from additional discount(s)).

I would also recommend Lexus' extended warranty, which is excellent, although you may need to look into this more closely given your low annual mileage.

The RX will definitely fit the bill, but if you generally do not cover more than 4 miles at a time, do not expect fuel economy to better 26/27 MPG, especially in the winter.

Can you post the link to the car you are interested in?

I reckon you are spot on with short journeys in winter, over the last four weeks I have averaged 27mpg, mostly short journeys in pretty baltic and wet conditions.In summer I average 33mpg. TBH no cars will excel in these conditions including filthy diesels....

[rayaans]

4 hours ago, DanD said:

For the record I concur with all comments above.

The RX is the most reliable car I have ever owned and the service I have received from my dealership is the best I have received from any... to the point that I would not consider moving away from the brand.

I cover in excess of 25k miles per year, I have not had any issue with the car, apart from expected wear and tear: it still drives like it did the day I bought it.

Note that if you buy a car that is over 5 years old, service pricing will be lower that than of a newer car. This is Lexus' way to ensure that you have your car serviced within the network. Pesonally, I would recommend their service plan, which makes a lot of sense. It is inflation proof, includes a discount (I think mine equated to 15%), and spreads the cost of servicing into fixed monthly payments. (NOTE: if you become Member of the LexusOwnersClub, you will benefit from additional discount(s)).

I would also recommend Lexus' extended warranty, which is excellent, although you may need to look into this more closely given your low annual mileage.

The RX will definitely fit the bill, but if you generally do not cover more than 4 miles at a time, do not expect fuel economy to better 26/27 MPG, especially in the winter.

Can you post the link to the car you are interested in?

The discounts should no longer be available as its now fixed price. But the member discount would still apply.

[JeffL]

8 hours ago, DanD said:

For the record I concur with all comments above.

The RX is the most reliable car I have ever owned and the service I have received from my dealership is the best I have received from any... to the point that I would not consider moving away from the brand.

I cover in excess of 25k miles per year, I have not had any issue with the car, apart from expected wear and tear: it still drives like it did the day I bought it.

Note that if you buy a car that is over 5 years old, service pricing will be lower that than of a newer car. This is Lexus' way to ensure that you have your car serviced within the network. Pesonally, I would recommend their service plan, which makes a lot of sense. It is inflation proof, includes a discount (I think mine equated to 15%), and spreads the cost of servicing into fixed monthly payments. (NOTE: if you become Member of the LexusOwnersClub, you will benefit from additional discount(s)).

I would also recommend Lexus' extended warranty, which is excellent, although you may need to look into this more closely given your low annual mileage.

The RX will definitely fit the bill, but if you generally do not cover more than 4 miles at a time, do not expect fuel economy to better 26/27 MPG, especially in the winter.

Can you post the link to the car you are interested in?

 

The MPG is not a concern as I only did 4K miles last year. The most I've done in recent years has been 6K/7K p.a. Here is the link to the car I'm considering. Has anyone had any dealings with Lexus Leeds, good/bad experiences? I'd only be buying from them, servicing would be Lexus Stockport or my independent .

https://usedcars.lexus.co.uk/en/used-lexus/Lexus/RX-450h/35-Luxury-qxblg5f