RX450h SE-L but WITHOUT air suspension?

[sorcerer]

When our house sale goes through (hopefully in the next month or two) I'll have an absolute maximum of about £20k to change the car. Having been around techy stuff all my life I'm naturally drawn to all the toys, bells and whistles that the SE-L provides but I'm really apprehensive of the air suspension that seems to go with that model.

Twenty grand (preferably less) will only get me a car that's already 7 or 8 years old but, at 60 years of age, it's likely to also be my 'forever' car that I'll keep until either I, or it, dies, which is why I really don't want air suspension. It just doesn't offer enough (or even anything?) over 'traditional' suspension, but it introduces a level of complexity that's out of all proportion to any perceived benefit it may give - and having travelled in cars with air suspension, I really don't see any benefit at all.

Given that I may be keeping the car 10 or more years, that means that it may be 17 or 18 years old by the time I'm 70 and I really don't see the rubber air bags lasting that long without some major investment along the way.

So (a) are there any SE-Ls without air suspension; or (b) if I have to buy a car with it, can it be modified to traditional coil suspension?

[JeffL]

Hopefully you will still be driving beyond age 70. I've just turned 70 and wondering if to keep by 10 year old GS300 or change it for a generation 3 RX450H as I expect to be still driving for many years to come, albeit only 4000 miles per year. Personally I'd also prefer the coil springs so will be looking at Luxury not Advance (3RX)

[rayaans]

4 hours ago, sorcerer said:

When our house sale goes through (hopefully in the next month or two) I'll have an absolute maximum of about £20k to change the car. Having been around techy stuff all my life I'm naturally drawn to all the toys, bells and whistles that the SE-L provides but I'm really apprehensive of the air suspension that seems to go with that model.

Twenty grand (preferably less) will only get me a car that's already 7 or 8 years old but, at 60 years of age, it's likely to also be my 'forever' car that I'll keep until either I, or it, dies, which is why I really don't want air suspension. It just doesn't offer enough (or even anything?) over 'traditional' suspension, but it introduces a level of complexity that's out of all proportion to any perceived benefit it may give - and having travelled in cars with air suspension, I really don't see any benefit at all.

Given that I may be keeping the car 10 or more years, that means that it may be 17 or 18 years old by the time I'm 70 and I really don't see the rubber air bags lasting that long without some major investment along the way.

So (a) are there any SE-Ls without air suspension; or (b) if I have to buy a car with it, can it be modified to traditional coil suspension?

All SE-L versions will have air suspension and you probably can just change them out for conventional springs I would assume. However, I would be inclined to give the SE-L a miss and get an advance as they seem to have good spec but without long term issues 

[sorcerer]

Thanks Rayann, that's definitely food for thought although Jeff above seems to think that the Advance models will also have air suspension so can you (or anyone else) advise on whether that's the case or not?

Jeff - yes, indeed, I hope I'll still be driving well after my 70th birthday  

[Guest]

No they don't, i have a 2014 Advance which just gives you a sunroof,adaptive lights,and a sport model front bumper.The pre 2014 advance gave you under runs instead of the sport bumper.These were special editions which were priced the same as the Luxury spec.

Hope this helps.

[rayaans]

1 hour ago, sorcerer said:

Thanks Rayann, that's definitely food for thought although Jeff above seems to think that the Advance models will also have air suspension so can you (or anyone else) advise on whether that's the case or not?

Jeff - yes, indeed, I hope I'll still be driving well after my 70th birthday  

As eamonn said, no air suspension on the Advance models but a better spec with addition of sunroof and LED headlights.

[JeffL]

2 hours ago, rayaans said:

As eamonn said, no air suspension on the Advance models but a better spec with addition of sunroof and LED headlights.

My mistake, must have been thinking of the Premier (3RX) ? (It's good to talk!)

[DanD]

On ‎27‎/‎12‎/‎2017 at 3:43 PM, JeffL said:

My mistake, must have been thinking of the Premier (3RX) ? (It's good to talk!)

SE-L became Premier with the 2012 Facelift.

 

On ‎26‎/‎12‎/‎2017 at 2:18 PM, sorcerer said:

When our house sale goes through (hopefully in the next month or two) I'll have an absolute maximum of about £20k to change the car. Having been around techy stuff all my life I'm naturally drawn to all the toys, bells and whistles that the SE-L provides but I'm really apprehensive of the air suspension that seems to go with that model.

Twenty grand (preferably less) will only get me a car that's already 7 or 8 years old but, at 60 years of age, it's likely to also be my 'forever' car that I'll keep until either I, or it, dies, which is why I really don't want air suspension. It just doesn't offer enough (or even anything?) over 'traditional' suspension, but it introduces a level of complexity that's out of all proportion to any perceived benefit it may give - and having travelled in cars with air suspension, I really don't see any benefit at all.

Given that I may be keeping the car 10 or more years, that means that it may be 17 or 18 years old by the time I'm 70 and I really don't see the rubber air bags lasting that long without some major investment along the way.

So (a) are there any SE-Ls without air suspension; or (b) if I have to buy a car with it, can it be modified to traditional coil suspension?

Wrong and rather pessimistic approach I say. You could still be driving for another 40 years!

You sound like my dad who now refuses to read any book longer than 250 pages... in case he does not make it to the end!!!!

Go for an RC. When you can no longer get in and out of it, then go for an RX!

More seriously, have you considered a NX? - Your budget would buy you a more recent car, with cheaper running costs...

Happy New Year!

[Silversalmon]

I'd advise an older RX over a newer NX any time, as lovely as the NX is, and it's very jazzy inside, it is smaller, and not a patch on the power of the RX. I've had a couple of decent runs in the NX as a courtesy vehicle for 48 hours. I don't think the RX is an expensive car to maintain at all.

[DanD]

3 minutes ago, Silversalmon said:

I'd advise an older RX over a newer NX any time, as lovely as the NX is, and it's very jazzy inside, it is smaller, and not a patch on the power of the RX. I've had a couple of decent runs in the NX as a courtesy vehicle for 48 hours. I don't think the RX is an expensive car to maintain at all.

Actually, I agree with you.

My wife had a 1.6 Renault Scenic that cost us more to run than our RX over three years due to regular breakdowns!

[First_Lexus]

26 minutes ago, Silversalmon said:

I'd advise an older RX over a newer NX any time, as lovely as the NX is, and it's very jazzy inside, it is smaller, and not a patch on the power of the RX. I've had a couple of decent runs in the NX as a courtesy vehicle for 48 hours. I don't think the RX is an expensive car to maintain at all.

^^ I'd agree with that as long as the extra size of the RX isn't an issue.

I looked at a 15/16 plate RX before I bought the NX. It only took about five minutes for me to rule it out as I found it too big for my needs, and actually quite unwieldy to manoeuvre. It's a personal thing, but I was more than happy with the NX. I don't drive fast so the extra power of the RX was irrelevant for me, and I find the NX far more powerful than my previous Honda CR-V petrol/auto.

Worth looking at and driving both I'd say as @DanDsuggests. At least that way you'll know for sure what you are comfortable with and where your priorities are.

[rayaans]

2 hours ago, First_Lexus said:

^^ I'd agree with that as long as the extra size of the RX isn't an issue.

I looked at a 15/16 plate RX before I bought the NX. It only took about five minutes for me to rule it out as I found it too big for my needs, and actually quite unwieldy to manoeuvre. It's a personal thing, but I was more than happy with the NX. I don't drive fast so the extra power of the RX was irrelevant for me, and I find the NX far more powerful than my previous Honda CR-V petrol/auto.

Worth looking at and driving both I'd say as @DanDsuggests. At least that way you'll know for sure what you are comfortable with and where your priorities are.

TBH the RX is also too big for my needs too. I'm usually the only person in the car and the NX space would have sufficed as a family car. 

Problem was mainly with the power and refinement levels coming from multiple RXs since 2004!

The RX is bigger yes but at no point does it become harder to manoeuvre. Most people move out of the way when it's coming down the road.

I didn't really want to go down the route of the Audi SQ5 either though as that has enough power and the V6 refinement. 

[First_Lexus]

19 minutes ago, rayaans said:

TBH the RX is also too big for my needs too. I'm usually the only person in the car and the NX space would have sufficed as a family car. 

Problem was mainly with the power and refinement levels coming from multiple RXs since 2004!

The RX is bigger yes but at no point does it become harder to manoeuvre. Most people move out of the way when it's coming down the road.

I didn't really want to go down the route of the Audi SQ5 either though as that has enough power and the V6 refinement. 

The final part of the apology from Lexus for my car being with them for three months was to be an LC500 on loan for a couple of days. However, since I can't get in or out of something that low I've chosen a new RX instead. I'll be interested to see whether my opinion has changed.

As I said, personally I did find the RX difficult to manoeuvre. Based on what the salesman told me it is pretty common feedback. The best way to know is to experience it in my situation and roads, so I will. We all have different requirements - as I've said 'power' isn't that important to me personally.

[rayaans]

6 minutes ago, First_Lexus said:

The final part of the apology from Lexus for my car being with them for three months was to be an LC500 on loan for a couple of days. However, since I can't get in or out of something that low I've chosen a new RX instead. I'll be interested to see whether my opinion has changed.

As I said, personally I did find the RX difficult to manoeuvre. Based on what the salesman told me it is pretty common feedback. The best way to know is to experience it in my situation and roads, so I will. We all have different requirements - as I've said 'power' isn't that important to me personally.

That's fair enough bit the RX is not much longer or wider than an NX and you get used to it. 

A few days youll be worried about it but after a week or two you get used to it pretty quick especially with all the parking gubbins

[sorcerer]

4 hours ago, DanD said:

Wrong and rather pessimistic approach I say. You could still be driving for another 40 years!

You sound like my dad who now refuses to read any book longer than 250 pages... in case he does not make it to the end!!!!

Go for an RC. When you can no longer get in and out of it, then go for an RX!

1

Many years ago I had an accident at work that resulted in a back injury that was bad enough to see me medically retired from a job I loved. I've also had a triple heart bypass and bladder cancer (so far been clear for two years now from that). With a track record like that, I sometimes think that I'm not going to make it into my late 70s/early 80s but who knows - I may have gone through the worst now and not get anything else so serious 

 

3 hours ago, First_Lexus said:

I looked at a 15/16 plate RX before I bought the NX. It only took about five minutes for me to rule it out as I found it too big for my needs, and actually quite unwieldy to manoeuvre.

 

4 hours ago, DanD said:

Go for an RC. When you can no longer get in and out of it, then go for an RX!

I currently drive an RX300 and it's perfect for my back problem. The seats give me plenty of support and the extra height makes it so much easier to get in and out of, it's the perfect car for my needs. The vast majority of my working life was spent as a telephone engineer (cable jointer) on Post Office Telephones/British Telecom/BT, so driving a variety of different sized vans over the years means that I'm very comfortable with driving larger vehicles and don't find the RX any problem at all. Plus, we need every inch of boot space when we drive over to Poland/Czech Republic and other eastern European countries for our holidays because we're usually away for about four weeks at a time. It's definitely an RX for me

[royoftherovers]

"You sound like my dad who now refuses to read any book longer than 250 pages... in case he does not make it to the end!!!!"

 

We seem to forget/overlook the fact that we will never know if we make to the end 

[JeffL]

1 hour ago, rayaans said:

That's fair enough bit the RX is not much longer or wider than an NX and you get used to it. 

A few days youll be worried about it but after a week or two you get used to it pretty quick especially with all the parking gubbins

If the figures on my research sheets are correct on length: NX 15' 2" (4630mm), 3RX 15' 8" (4770mm), 4RX 16' 0" (4890mm). Personally, I think the 3RX at 6" longer than an NX is significant enough when considering the size of parking spaces and garage sizes. Also the 4RX is 10" longer than the NX. However, for me currently considering changing from GS300 at 15' 10" (4825mm), to the 3RX is a slight improvement. I'd actually prefer the NX for length but have been put off by the comments on wind noise (from the mirrors?) and engine noise from the CVT. I'm presuming that the 2.5L engine is the problem, whereas the 3RX has a 3.5L engine. I must say, I do like my 3.0L petrol GS with the torque converter gearbox but would like to have the higher driving position that the NX/RX offers. In the main I'm only doing local journeys of 4/5 miles each way so the wind/engine noise of the NX wouldn't be a problem, but I do have to think about when I'll do say 70 mile or 200 mile motorway journeys and am worried that those longer journeys might not be as comfortable/relaxing as the GS/RX.

[First_Lexus]

I haven't noticed wind noise @JeffL. Road noise was an issue in the F-Sport courtesy car I had, but that was down to tyres I think.

Engine noise is an issue if you accelerate hard with a heavy right foot, caused by the CVT. Having had CVTs since 2004, and having known a few friends/colleagues with them, my observation is that 'enthusiastic' drivers don't like them and they don't really suit that type of driving style. Waft along and they are actually more refined imho but I do understand why some can't get on with them.

If practicality is a necessity @sorcererthen you are quite right to steer away from the NX. The cabin is fine, but the boot is small. Far less practical than my previous CRV, and a bigger difference to an RX.

[rayaans]

38 minutes ago, JeffL said:

If the figures on my research sheets are correct on length: NX 15' 2" (4630mm), 3RX 15' 8" (4770mm), 4RX 16' 0" (4890mm). Personally, I think the 3RX at 6" longer than an NX is significant enough when considering the size of parking spaces and garage sizes. Also the 4RX is 10" longer than the NX. However, for me currently considering changing from GS300 at 15' 10" (4825mm), to the 3RX is a slight improvement. I'd actually prefer the NX for length but have been put off by the comments on wind noise (from the mirrors?) and engine noise from the CVT. I'm presuming that the 2.5L engine is the problem, whereas the 3RX has a 3.5L engine. I must say, I do like my 3.0L petrol GS with the torque converter gearbox but would like to have the higher driving position that the NX/RX offers. In the main I'm only doing local journeys of 4/5 miles each way so the wind/engine noise of the NX wouldn't be a problem, but I do have to think about when I'll do say 70 mile or 200 mile motorway journeys and am worried that those longer journeys might not be as comfortable/relaxing as the GS/RX.

It's not wind noise as such although this does affect some NXs. The vehicle overall is slightly louder which is to be expected. This includes road and wind noise.

The engine noise is apparent when using the accelerator which you would have to do quite often and for a prolonged period of time compared to your current GS and the RX. It's particularly noticeable on hills. The RX is so quick that you barely notice any drone but the NX requires sustained effort so it can seem like the engine is droning on.

Also worth bearing in mind that the NX suspension is slightly firmer and thr seats narrower than you'd find in an RX

[DanD]

@sorcerer I hope I did not offend by my tongue-in-cheek comments. If I did I sincerely apologise.

I hope your health issues are sorted for good... and that you do still have 40 years of driving ahead of you!

[sorcerer]

32 minutes ago, DanD said:

@sorcerer I hope I did not offend by my tongue-in-cheek comments. If I did I sincerely apologise.

I hope your health issues are sorted for good... and that you do still have 40 years of driving ahead of you!

Of course you didn't Dan, no apology necessary at all my friend - and thanks, so do I 

[DocT]

On 26/12/2017 at 6:35 PM, rayaans said:

All SE-L versions will have air suspension 

 

On 02/01/2018 at 11:41 AM, DanD said:

SE-L became Premier with the 2012 Facelift.

Hmm, I have a 2010 SE-L Premier without air suspension! It came with Active Stabilisers which are brilliant.

I think this was changed at the 2012 facelift when air suspension became standard instead.

[First_Lexus]

On 02/01/2018 at 3:41 PM, rayaans said:

That's fair enough bit the RX is not much longer or wider than an NX and you get used to it. 

A few days youll be worried about it but after a week or two you get used to it pretty quick especially with all the parking gubbins

I'm on day two of my three days with a brand new RX F-Sport.

I have got used to the size - in regular driving - very quickly. Some things I love, especially the interior which is a thing of extreme beauty and quality. Just wonderful. The size isn't for me though, as I have found it difficult to manoeuvre as I feared I would. Yes, I'd probably get used to that, but the size of the NX suits me far better.

I've tried out the extra power - it would have been rude not to (!) - but in 99% of normal driving that I do it would be (and has been) an irrelevance. I'm not a fast driver, and in my 100 miles so far it has been no different to the NX because I'm not driving it any differently. What has surprised me is the amount of noise the engine makes under acceleration. Granted, that is the same in the NX if pushed, but my expectation was that the RX would be far more refined, and actually that has been quite a disappointment. My expectations were probably unrealistic, but there you go.

The other thing that I'm struggling with is the steering. I don't think I've ever driven a car with such a lack of feel - it's as if the wheels aren't connected to the steering wheel. The NX is similar but doesn't feel as remote, and I've found placing the RX on the road quite tricky because of the steering, especially on the narrow lanes around here. The F-Sport ride isn't for me either - as with the NX I guess the 'normal' models are much softer and would be more to my liking.

I do like the RX. It is clearly a very special car. The interior quality and design alone probably makes it (almost) worthwhile. However, for my circumstances and now having experienced both it and two NXs (and an IS300h for a couple of weeks too) I'm comfortable that the NX was the right choice from the Lexus range for me, especially with 37-40 mpg whereas on the same journeys the RX is indicating 28-30mpg.

 

 

[rayaans]

18 hours ago, First_Lexus said:

I'm on day two of my three days with a brand new RX F-Sport.

I have got used to the size - in regular driving - very quickly. Some things I love, especially the interior which is a thing of extreme beauty and quality. Just wonderful. The size isn't for me though, as I have found it difficult to manoeuvre as I feared I would. Yes, I'd probably get used to that, but the size of the NX suits me far better.

I've tried out the extra power - it would have been rude not to (!) - but in 99% of normal driving that I do it would be (and has been) an irrelevance. I'm not a fast driver, and in my 100 miles so far it has been no different to the NX because I'm not driving it any differently. What has surprised me is the amount of noise the engine makes under acceleration. Granted, that is the same in the NX if pushed, but my expectation was that the RX would be far more refined, and actually that has been quite a disappointment. My expectations were probably unrealistic, but there you go.

The other thing that I'm struggling with is the steering. I don't think I've ever driven a car with such a lack of feel - it's as if the wheels aren't connected to the steering wheel. The NX is similar but doesn't feel as remote, and I've found placing the RX on the road quite tricky because of the steering, especially on the narrow lanes around here. The F-Sport ride isn't for me either - as with the NX I guess the 'normal' models are much softer and would be more to my liking.

I do like the RX. It is clearly a very special car. The interior quality and design alone probably makes it (almost) worthwhile. However, for my circumstances and now having experienced both it and two NXs (and an IS300h for a couple of weeks too) I'm comfortable that the NX was the right choice from the Lexus range for me, especially with 37-40 mpg whereas on the same journeys the RX is indicating 28-30mpg.

 

 

I believe the F-Sport has sound actuators which pump noise into the cabin from the intake. Its the V6 noise rather than the inline 4 noise that I love - and becomes quite addictive

[rayaans]

I've had all sorts of daft things though. Some people are like "one of your fog lights is out" when its sat with a turned steering wheel