Rasping from brakes, advice please.

[rayaans]

The thing is, just because it's a known problem - it doesn't mean it's a common one. They'd probably grease the pins if more than 50% of cars were affected.

I've not heard of many RX450Hs with bound calipers to be honest. It was common on 2IS though and 2RX.

[TimS320]

Turns out it was a hole in the side of the piston. This then seized and wrecked the caliper. Dealer is replacing all this as well as pads and disc. Have to say I’ve had a few corroded pistons over the years, but even with pitting or corrosion they simply become stiff, I’ve never had an actual hole!

[Britprius]

The hole was almost certainly in the rubber boot meant to protect the piston from dirt, and water. Once the boot has been compromised the piston will quickly seize.

John.

[SLACKBLADDER]

At least this happened whilst under a warranty the wallet is safe for a while 

[TimS320]

That’s a real relief and one that will have me pricing up a warranty next year when this first 12 months expires.

[TimS320]

Sometimes it really hard to love a Lexus. 

Collected the car yesterday and only managed to have a really good look over it when I got home. Although the car had been ‘cleaned’ this didn’t extend to removing the baked on brake /caliper residue that was all over the front wheel, passenger door and back along the car. I can’t quite believe that the technician had actually put the wheel back on in that state. If I hadn’t needed the car urgently yesterday I would have taken it back and left it.

So as it’s a 45 minute drive each way I decided to try and shift it myself. After a morning of of cleaning, nothing had shifted it. It’s going to need the wheel removing and some heavy duty acid wheel cleaner on it. As for the bodywork, it was in the door trim, handles rear wheel, the dust had got everywhere. Shifted a lot with tar remover, but even wonderwheels didn’t touch the wheel. 

Phoned the dealer to give them some feedback who offered to ‘give it a clean’ next time I’m passing!

How the h@ll does a mechanic, who has just fitted clean new caliper, discs and pads, then put back on a wheel thick with baked on grit?

To ice the cake, I decided as I was cleaning the car, to clean the boot properly. Yes I am the proud owner of a Lexus swimming pool. At least one inch of water was swimming round the Battery. When I bought the car the boot was wet, the speaker grill stained and the jack slightly rusty, all of which they put down to their now dismissed vaulter who had been washing the cars with the boot open! They dried it and assured me it wasn’t a problem.

So either I have a soaked Battery because of the usual leak issues which I have read up on, and have to find that problem, or more hopefully whoever half washed the car this time again at the dealers was careless and got the boot wet.

I really don’t want to go back to the dealers, and  would rather get the car privately detailed so I know all these things are right, but I feel they should put some of this right at least. Any thoughts?

[SLACKBLADDER]

Not of merchantable quality take it back

[TimS320]

[Guest]

It's too late for that wheel. Use an alkali wheel cleaner mixed down with water and agitate. Rinse and repeat. Although lacquer has gone in several places so only way back is reconditioning now.

As for the boot. I'd reject the car. Is it lexus approved? If so I'd be on to lexus head office. A few pics tagged on yours their Facebook page twitter feed will focus attention. Mention the dealer too and they will get a phone call thrown in.

In fact I'm sure you have 30 days or 500 miles to reject.

Sent from my STV100-4 using Tapatalk

[JeffL]

Absolutely shocking for ANY brand of dealer, but for a Lexus dealer to have treated you and your car like this is really making me think twice about Lexus. I bought my car from Lexus Stockport when it was 22 months old but have had it serviced and MOT'd every year since by my local trusted independent garage. I was not impressed by Lexus Stockport when I had work done under warranty during the first 12 months of ownership. 

TimS320: Can you just confirm, this was Lexus Stockport you bought it from and who have dealt with the repair. Thanks.

[TimS320]

Yes, this is with Lexus Stockport. Not impressed at all and have just spent some time writing to their Aftersales Manager with some suggestions for a resolution. I’ve had the car for 90 days so I don’t think I can reject. What I want is it sorting and with the water ingress, if it’s not bone dry in there, I’ll make sure they fix it or come up with an alternative plan.

[rayaans]

12 minutes ago, TimS320 said:

Yes, this is with Lexus Stockport. Not impressed at all and have just spent some time writing to their Aftersales Manager with some suggestions for a resolution. I’ve had the car for 90 days so I don’t think I can reject. What I want is it sorting and with the water ingress, if it’s not bone dry in there, I’ll make sure they fix it or come up with an alternative plan.

My car was from Lexus Stockport and the service was excellent.  

I suggest you speak to centre manager Fred Goodwin. Nice chap, sorts issues out pretty much instantly.  

The cleaning responsibility lies with the valeters and the cars aren't checked afterwards. Essentially, if the valeter screws up, after sales won't know about it.

That wheel and door needs some fallout remover. Go for Bilt Hamber Korrosol, iron x or car chem revolt.

Taking a look at the wheel though it looks shot. It's not something that happens overnight and looking at it, it seems you've driven too much with stuck calipers, especially if you drove 45 miles on the motorway to get there. I would have got it towed via AA on a flatbed 

The dealers dont keep or use this so theyd have a hard time shifting this without using acidic products on the wheels and door panel. 

I suggest you try the fallout remover first. 

On a side note, RX450h's don't leak from anywhere. The 2nd gen RX had the potential to leak but the 3RX doesn't so it shouldn't be soaking wet at all.

Having said that, when valeted the car will have had its carpets washed with an extractor so will be wet. The shampoo uses biocides so won't smell when dried though

[TimS320]

I’d normally not be concerned if the valeter hadn’t done a good job, but this time the technician put a contaminated wheel back on, then relied on the valeter to do it. I have no idea if he expected him to take a wheel off to clean it but that’s what was required. Given what had happened I think it should have been down to be inspected after the valeter.

I only drove the 15 miles to Stockport on the sticking caliper at low speed on the local roads, previously it had had very little use. 

The inside hasn’t been cleaned at all and I wouldn’t expect it. I lost this morning trying to put it right, and think they should do the job, so for now I have emailed the head of Aftersales.

[JeffL]

1 hour ago, rayaans said:

The cleaning responsibility lies with the valeters and the cars aren't checked afterwards. Essentially, if the valeter screws up, after sales won't know about it.

Well, they should be checked afterwards by a responsible member of staff surely! This is Lexus we are talking about!

[Guest]

Responsibility lies with the manager. For everything.

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[rayaans]

11 hours ago, TimS320 said:

I’d normally not be concerned if the valeter hadn’t done a good job, but this time the technician put a contaminated wheel back on, then relied on the valeter to do it. I have no idea if he expected him to take a wheel off to clean it but that’s what was required. Given what had happened I think it should have been down to be inspected after the valeter.

I only drove the 15 miles to Stockport on the sticking caliper at low speed on the local roads, previously it had had very little use. 

The inside hasn’t been cleaned at all and I wouldn’t expect it. I lost this morning trying to put it right, and think they should do the job, so for now I have emailed the head of Aftersales.

Technicians don't clean cars. They fix mechanical issues. They dont know how to clean wheels properly and it's not in their job profile.

Valeters are there to clean cars that's what they get paid to do. Do you get the tyre fitters to clean wheels after fitting?!

TBH once you've driven the car off the lot it's he says she says. 

15 miles on a sticking caliper at 30mph is still a lot. Shouldn't really be driven at all looking at that amount of brake dust. It's safe to assume the brakes would have been glowing hot after that drive.

11 hours ago, JeffL said:

Well, they should be checked afterwards by a responsible member of staff surely! This is Lexus we are talking about!

 

10 hours ago, Comedian said:

Responsibility lies with the manager. For everything.

Sent from my STV100-4 using Tapatalk
 

They're not though. The customer needs to inspect the car and see if it's done properly. The valeters been a lazy sod and not bothered to do it or doesn't have the suitable products. The valeters then put the car in the car park. 

If driven off the lot, doesn't matter which dealer it is, they'll always try to wriggle out of it so always check before leaving.

[Guest]

Rayaans, a technician is also a parts cleaner let me tell you. It's a large part of a technician's job. For a start, one can't inspect something when it's filthy and a good technician should never refit a damaged or unsuitable part. The problem for a car technician is they are under time and cost pressures from management. Or maybe they have just lost interest, are poorly trained or are a crap technician? Either way, all management jobs to sort out.

He should not have been working on open hydraulics on a filthy car anyway. The area should have been cleaned first, before the work. Let alone afterwards.

This is what happens when they only see the small immediate profit that can be counted, and not the hard to measure future profits that come from good customer care.




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[rayaans]

3 minutes ago, Comedian said:

Rayaans, a technician is also a parts cleaner let me tell you. It's a large part of a technician's job. For a start, one can't inspect something when it's filthy and a good technician should never refit a damaged or unsuitable part. The problem for a car technician is they are under time and cost pressures from management. Or maybe they have just lost interest, are poorly trained or are a crap technician? Either way, all management jobs to sort out.

He should not have been working on open hydraulics on a filthy car anyway. The area should have been cleaned first, before the work. Let alone afterwards.

This is what happens when they only see the small immediate profit that can be counted, and not the hard to measure future profits that come from good customer care.




Sent from my STV100-4 using Tapatalk
 

Yes but they won't clean the wheels or bodywork.

The hydraulics are cleaned after wheel removal.

The wheel itself is not damaged or unsuitable. Any lawyer will say it's fit for purpose as its not damaged in any way and therefore the technician can put the wheel back on without cleaning it and pass it through valeting. 

Ideally they should be inspecting each car after its been through workshop and valeting but it doesn't happen

[Guest]

Again, you can't inspect something if it's filthy. A wheel is a vital component, not cosmetics.

We will have to agree to disagree. I would have cleaned it if it was me doing the job. But maybe when it was fitted it was clean enough to inspect? As having read through posts I missed I have seen he has had it 90 days. Info not in the 1st post. So wheel was probably not as bad as that when collected. Discussing a non-issue maybe?


I'd certainly inspect a car post work, always do, in fact last time I dragged the guy handling my job out to inspect the car with me. He actually admitted the technician asked him to check he was happy but he hadn't looked as he "knew it would all be OK" so a perfect example of a second check not being done because.....why bother eh? Shoddy I'm afraid. And this is the brand that wins awards for service.








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[TimS320]

Just to clear a few things up. I’ve owned the car for 90 days. Due to some ill health on my part, it’s not been used much and only covered 1200 miles in that time. 

The sticking brake occurred last weekend and was first noticed as a slight dragging on a half mile trip to a supermarket. It was taken back to the dealers as soon as they could fix to, which was last Wednesday. So I collected the car Friday. Therefore I’ve had the car two days since the repair. Me personally, I would not have put that wheel back on until cleaned on the inside. What they do is up to them provided the repairs are sound and does not cause any further damage or degradation. I am looking at the car now and I see no way a cleaner can access the inside of the wheel without removing it. Which he won’t. So that’s the technicians job.

What really concerned me was the over 1 inch of water around the Battery. If, as Rayaans said, these do not leak, how did that get there?

The dealer has previously admitted problems with the valeter, soaking cars, so one would expect them to keep an eye on the new one for a few months. If that much water penetrates the electrics or goes under the carpets, I’ll have a huge job getting it dry. Most of it is at the moment, the dampness is mainly confined to the boot, but there is a question to answer.

[rayaans]

4 hours ago, Comedian said:

Again, you can't inspect something if it's filthy. A wheel is a vital component, not cosmetics.

We will have to agree to disagree. I would have cleaned it if it was me doing the job. But maybe when it was fitted it was clean enough to inspect? As having read through posts I missed I have seen he has had it 90 days. Info not in the 1st post. So wheel was probably not as bad as that when collected. Discussing a non-issue maybe?


I'd certainly inspect a car post work, always do, in fact last time I dragged the guy handling my job out to inspect the car with me. He actually admitted the technician asked him to check he was happy but he hadn't looked as he "knew it would all be OK" so a perfect example of a second check not being done because.....why bother eh? Shoddy I'm afraid. And this is the brand that wins awards for service.








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All true but the thing is..... why would they inspect the wheel when they'd checked it already and found that the calipers were the problem?  

They'd focus on the calipers not the wheels. I'm pretty sure wheels don't get inspected regularly. TBH I don't think they're even removed on a service.

[OldTrout]

4 hours ago, rayaans said:

All true but the thing is..... why would they inspect the wheel when they'd checked it already and found that the calipers were the problem?  

They'd focus on the calipers not the wheels. I'm pretty sure wheels don't get inspected regularly. TBH I don't think they're even removed on a service.

I don't want to hijack this thread but how is a sticking calliper spotted in a visual inspection even if the wheel is removed?

John

 

[rayaans]

8 hours ago, OldTrout said:

I don't want to hijack this thread but how is a sticking calliper spotted in a visual inspection even if the wheel is removed?

John

 

Visual difference in pad thickness I would have thought but if it's fairly recent it'll be minimal. 

Or maybe more brake dust on one wheel compared to the other