It’s Snow Good!

[steve2006]

I needed to get into my garage and being a bit tight decided to back the LS out to give me more space, even with just a little snow and a cold engine tick over it still wanted to go sideways back into the garage.

 

[The-Acre]

The LS is a real nightmare, even just a forecast of snow gives it a slippery back end.  I drove mine in snow once, never ever again!

[cruisermark]

We are not the only ones - We had 2 struggling BMWs this morning in the family - one decided to stay put despite the rear wheels spinning! - The other managed to move but the driver was scared due sideways manouveres its was pulling that he gave up and came back home 1 mile after setting off.

The LS on the other hand is snuggled up under a nice white blanket (of snow).

I think it will be even worser tommorrow after the temperatures drop overnight

[cornershop]

Is it just a lack of appropriate tyres or something specific that makes the ls400 useless in snow?

Just back from a 2hr round trip to London Town, amazed how many newish e-class Mercs I saw struggling with the slightest of inclines. Our 62 plate CMax just trundled on bye :)

[The-Acre]

4 minutes ago, cornershop said:

Is it just a lack of appropriate tyres or something specific that makes the ls400 useless in snow?

Just back from a 2hr round trip to London Town, amazed how many newish e-class Mercs I saw struggling with the slightest of inclines. Our 62 plate CMax just trundled on bye :)

Snow tyres would help, but it's a combination of rear wheel drive, auto box and the sheer size and power.  Although its been some years since we had any real snow on the West Sussex coast.

 

[grantwils]

It’s 100% down to the wrong tyres. You can’t beat the laws of physics. I’ve towed 4x4s up hills in a RWD auto Merc when I’ve had winter tyres on and they’ve had summer tyres.

I have no idea why cars in UK are shipped with rubber specifically for use above 7 degrees when it’s below 7 degrees for 6 months of the year.

They use RWD automatic cars on ice covered roads and steep inclines in Scandinavia and Canada.

Buy a second set of rims and winter tyres. It’ll save you money and you wont get stuck.


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[mrdoofa]

Big car+RWD+Automatic=Poor in the snow!!! We once had a crappy little Fiat UNO that was superb in the snow, left everything else standing, the only time it would leave everything else standing though lol!!!

[steve2006]

Fortunately I only have to use mine occasionally so it will be kept in the garage until it clears away but if yours is a daily driver it may be worth getting some winter tyres on it but the best thing to do is avoid driving if at all possible.

[grantwils]

Big car+RWD+Automatic=Poor in the snow!!! We once had a crappy little Fiat UNO that was superb in the snow, left everything else standing, the only time it would leave everything else standing though lol!!!

Very little to do with the size of car, the transmission and the driven wheels and very much to do with the tyres. My auto RWD Merc pulls 4x4 Imprezas and Freelanders up hills because it’s got the right tyres on it.



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[dendonc]

3 hours ago, cornershop said:

Is it just a lack of appropriate tyres or something specific that makes the ls400 useless in snow?

I think its the weight probably combined with the actual depth of snow, they are a very heavy car

[The-Acre]

1 hour ago, grantwils said:

 

 

Very little to do with the size of car, the transmission and the driven wheels and very much to do with the tyres. My auto RWD Merc pulls 4x4 Imprezas and Freelanders up hills because it’s got the right tyres on it.



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I pretty much guarantee an LS with tractor tyres wouldn't pull anything much up hill.  I've been driving one for 9 years, and regardless of tyres they are without a doubt the worst car I've driven in snow in 40 years.

[grantwils]

12 minutes ago, The-Acre said:

I pretty much guarantee an LS with tractor tyres wouldn't pull anything much up hill.  I've been driving one for 9 years, and regardless of tyres they are without a doubt the worst car I've driven in snow in 40 years.

Really? How come Scandinavians and Canadians drive them without much trouble in a hell of a lot worse conditions than we get here? Have you ever driven one with winter tyres? I've never, ever found a car that didn't handle perfectly with winter tyres front wheel drive A3 auto, RWD Merc autos, various 4x4s all capable of starting in thick, untreated snow on a hill without even a hint of wheelspin. 

 

 

 

[Neil E]

14 minutes ago, The-Acre said:

I pretty much guarantee an LS with tractor tyres wouldn't pull anything much up hill.  I've been driving one for 9 years, and regardless of tyres they are without a doubt the worst car I've driven in snow in 40 years.

Actually Phil, this is where real experience counts, it might seem that way with big rwd cars but with a full covering of snow and indeed in blizzard conditions I ran my old LS430 up over the infamous A939 in the Cairngorms several times with Wdrive Yokohama tyres and it was better than the RX300 on all season tyres.  With the same tyres, the RX pulled a Passat out of a ditch in deep snow but I felt safer in the LS430 up and down the steep twisty bits because the winter tyres provide better traction laterally and for braking. To give you an idea of how much difference the tyres make, from a standing start on a hill, the LS ploughed through 10 inches of deep fresh snow. Thank goodness for the high setting on the air suspension.

The RX came with all season tyres but as I rely on my own transport for work, I switch between Summer and Winter tyres. I just drove back from Oxford today on Hankook Winters without any issues, while some were struggling. 

[Neil E]

Oh great clip, @grantwils it's awesome driving in snowy Canada. I've only done that in a 4x4 and it was -33 in Calgary, -43 in Jasper. It's much easier in harsh winter conditions as the snow is powder and they plough the roads properly. The Canadians say there's least grip when the temperature is hovering around freezing.

[dendonc]

41 minutes ago, grantwils said:

Really, How come Scandinavians and Canadians drive them without much trouble in a hell of a lot worse conditions than we get here?

Another important variable in answer to that is 'drivers experience',  in some situations with RWD's it is only the experience which makes the biggest difference & in scandinavia & canada they got plenty of that.

[grantwils]

Another important variable in answer to that is 'drivers experience',  in some situations with RWD's it is only the experience which makes the biggest difference & in scandinavia & canada they got plenty of that.

Whole experience might help a very small amount it doesn’t beat the laws of physics.

The best, most experienced Scandinavian rally driver on summer rubber will be no match at all for a total idiot with winter rubber. The idiot will literally run rings around him and leave him stranded.


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[Neil E]

40 minutes ago, dendonc said:

Another important variable in answer to that is 'drivers experience',  in some situations with RWD's it is only the experience which makes the biggest difference & in scandinavia & canada they got plenty of that.

It's true that driver experience can make a significant difference in difficult conditions but @grantwils is quite correct, the biggest difference by far in this case is the tyres. I think it's just one of those topics where once you've tried it, you know. 

 

[The-Acre]

I think it also depends on the "type" of snow.  In fresh, fairly thick snow I would maybe risk it, the snow I'm referring to is like in Steve's original post, thin and wet.

[cruisermark]

13 hours ago, The-Acre said:

Snow tyres would help, but it's a combination of rear wheel drive, auto box and the sheer size and power.  Although its been some years since we had any real snow on the West Sussex coast.

 

I noticed 2 LSs in the video - thats a rare sight!

[dendonc]

9 minutes ago, cruisermark said:

its been some years since we had any real snow on the West Sussex coast.

Yes, the lack of snow days here in the deep south laves us with very little experience at all, it's those poor little mites on the edge of civilization (leeds, birmingham, Reading etc) who get snow a lot more

[Cotswold Pete]

Not so sure I'd be brave enough to try to oversteer technique as in the video.

Just spent ten minutes trying to put car into a proper space in car park at work, and car sliding around like a bar of soap in a shower, car park has a 1 in 25 slope!!!

Cetainly a little easier with Mk4 Snow Drive, but not fun when you have lots of things, including office wall to hit.

[The-Acre]

8 minutes ago, Cotswold Pete said:

Not so sure I'd be brave enough to try to oversteer technique as in the video.

Just spent ten minutes trying to put car into a proper space in car park at work, and car sliding around like a bar of soap in a shower, car park has a 1 in 25 slope!!!

Cetainly a little easier with Mk4 Snow Drive, but not fun when you have lots of things, including office wall to hit.

I was having some fun with an X5 a few years ago in my MK4, but a damp roundabout caused a very scary slippery rear end.  I've learned to be very gentle with the back end since, except when it's dry of course!

[Nick W858]

I made my feelings about and my love of winter tyres very clear a few weeks ago when I challenged dendonc to a race (albeit a very slow race!) up and down my street when the snow hit. It really is a horses for courses situation for me, if you live in a place liable to snow and ice and you feel you need to get around and feel safe whilst doing it then winter tyres will do the job. Make no mistake, as grantwils has said, this is nothing to do with size of the car/engine/fwd or rwd or experience of driver, it is down to the tyres and the guys in Scandinavia & North America who deal with far worse than the UK weather prove they do the job. I did like the video of the fishtailing LS but it would terrify most people and ultimately will lead to a collision. My wife is scared to go up our street because although the 4wd of her Rx450 will get her up, it will be sliding all the way which to her is not fun, equally when she comes back down the street and her car won't stop, she doesn't enjoy that either. It was minus 2 this morning and my hilly street was covered in packed old ice plus some bits of fresh snow and I passed my neighbour clearing the screen of his new A4 (not Quattro) and I went straight up my street with no fuss or drama in my winter tyred LS. When I turned out onto the next side road I pulled over to clear further snow/ice from my windscreen. I then turned round to see the A4 unable to clear our street so I went over and made a smart remark about the wrong tyres before pushing him on to the side road. I then carried on dropping my kids at school coming back down the hill and parking up with no drama whatsoever. For me personally that is important but to others depending on where you live or whether you have to be certain places then it might not. Please though, do not confuse your own need (or lack of need) for winter tyres with the question of whether or not they actually work, the folks who buy and use them would not bother to spend their hard earned money if they didn't work. There are some current posts on the RX/IS forums at the moment which illuminate the benefits the tyres are having for some forum members as well as tons of other example across the web.  My car as it stands is the best car by a country mile in winter conditions I have driven in 32 years of driving, it's nothing to do with the type of car I am driving, it is merely down to the different compounds of four pieces of rubber the car sits on. I have got 25 years of summer tyres under my belt and the dramas of winter driving using them, I now prefer the no drama/get where I want to go option but I do appreciate they will not be necessary or justifiable for some. Drive safe and arrive safe is the priority and if you don't feel you can do that then no problem stay at home and put the kettle on, it always thaws in a few days anyway!

[dendonc]

2 hours ago, Nick W858 said:

I made my feelings about and my love of winter tyres very clear a few weeks ago when I challenged dendonc to a race (albeit a very slow race!) up and down my street when the snow hit. It really is a horses for courses situation for me, if you live in a place liable to snow and ice and you feel you need to get around and feel safe whilst doing it then winter tyres will do the job. Make no mistake, as grantwils has said, this is nothing to do with size of the car/engine/fwd or rwd or experience of driver, it is down to the tyres and the guys in Scandinavia & North America who deal with far worse than the UK weather prove they do the job.

Since then I have gone more into it, especially with an Austrian frau who lives there. Yes winter tyres are more advantageous and have a better chance of stopping a car & holding the road. (I also got hateful sermon on snow chain use from her, she hates them)

>However< they are not as safe as what your posting on them implies, or will imply, to anyone not that used to them, snow & ice etc, they are better than normal tyres on snow seemingly a bit better on compressed & therefore more slippery snow, but they are not anywhere near as good & fail safe as you suggest they are,.

Snow tyres should be seen as completely ineffective with ABS if you go into even the slightest slide, you simply cannot stop the car until or unless it grips on something, something Nick858 failed to mention as well as his snow 'escapade' which ended with him & car nearly going under a juggernaught.

So winter tyres are better than normal tyres at gripping, but they are by no means a fail safe drive as you want on compressed snow ice as Nick858 implied in his previous post, once ABS goes into the slightest slide a drives is in trouble big time, something nick again overlooks. 

The forcast for tonight is that tempratures is expected to drop -12c

[The-Acre]

Interesting comments.  For me though it's my front wheel drive Volvo if it snows, much better traction and easier to get out of a snowy rut.  If we had regular snow down here I'd certainly consider snow tyres, but if it does snow its usually gone within hours.