US Lexus ES 300h

[parkman]

Hi,  I am interested to know what the US Lexus ES 300h compared to on the UK market. Looking at the pictures it looks like a GS model, but does anyone know ?

Parkman.

[Zotto]

If I remember well, ES is front wheels traction, while GS is RW.

[ColinBarber]

The ES is the Lexus badged Toyota Camry, which isn't sold in the UK.

It is larger than the IS, but smaller than the GS. It is front wheel drive, and uses the same engine as the NX300h (not the IS/GS300h one).

There is talk of the GS being removed from the lineup and just having the ES, possibly in Europe too.

[parkman]

Thanks for the answers. I was just interested to know as there are a lot of items for sale for the ES model in the US, such as car mats and other extra's.

I think that it would be a pity if Lexus drop the GS. My brother-in-law has one and I quite like the size of it when compared to the IS. It can be difficult, sometimes, differentiating between the GS and the IS when you see them coming towards you in traffic.

I would prefer a separate Lexus designed and built car, such as the IS and GS, than a re-badged Toyota.

Parkman.

[Ian J. Parsley]

I am just back from the US and would compare the ES more to an IS. It is essentially a more family-orientated car, from what I could see, with the IS more of a driver's car. I saw a good few GS models on the road there too, so would be surprised if they removed them (at least there).

[rayaans]

From what I have heard, the GS is being converted into a 4 door coupe style thing like the CLS. 

And the ES will be a saloon in the range.

However, there are various sources saying that pictured below is the next gen ES - 

Not sure, it could be that they've made the ES into a 4 door coupe and kept the GS a standard saloon

I'd expect it to be released in New York next year

[Guest]

Isn't the ES built in the USA though?

Sent from my STV100-4 using Tapatalk

[Linas.P]

38 minutes ago, rayaans said:

From what I have heard, the GS is being converted into a 4 door coupe style thing like the CLS. 

And the ES will be a saloon in the range.

However, there are various sources saying that pictured below is the next gen ES - 

Not sure, it could be that they've made the ES into a 4 door coupe and kept the GS a standard saloon

The later makes more sense, considering the size it would me more logical to do opposite - make ES as 4 door coupe and keep GS as large 4 door saloon, obviously as long as ES becomes RWD, otherwise they can just call it Camry and put Toyota badge on it. If they keep it FWD it will be more of competitor to terrible Passat CC rather than CLS

[rayaans]

3 hours ago, Linas.P said:

The later makes more sense, considering the size it would me more logical to do opposite - make ES as 4 door coupe and keep GS as large 4 door saloon, obviously as long as ES becomes RWD, otherwise they can just call it Camry and put Toyota badge on it. If they keep it FWD it will be more of competitor to terrible Passat CC rather than CLS

I think its supposed to be an VW Arteon, A5 Sportback, 3 series GT and 4 series Gran coupe competitor so it will probably be FWD if its the ES thats becoming a 4 door coupe. They won't price it as much as a CLS I dont think - its too niche a market

[parkman]

I know that it is good to see change but I like the current range and their designs. I would rather not see a large diversion from the current shapes, and I would much, much rather not have to have front wheel drive.

I have never really got to like the new MB E-class range since they became more streamlined. I always felt that it looked like the designers were doing well on the front of the car, and then went for lunch, after which they just said "stuff it, let's just wrap up now and stick any old finish on the back, doesn't matter what it looks like".

Parkman.

[Linas.P]

On 11/29/2017 at 10:59 PM, rayaans said:

I think its supposed to be an VW Arteon, A5 Sportback, 3 series GT and 4 series Gran coupe competitor so it will probably be FWD if its the ES thats becoming a 4 door coupe. They won't price it as much as a CLS I dont think - its too niche a market

VW Passat CC = Arteon, it is direct replacement and re-branding. Now again in my opinion FWD has no place in premium market, I hate driving FWD cars, I hated my CC primarily because of FWD and secondly because of awful 2.0t engine from Golf GTI (to be honest the engine was fine for Golf, just no suitable for luxury coupe application). At some point I was tempted to upgrade to US import VR6, but after trying I can say that 4motion is still pretty much FWD... which is not that unexpected for intermittent AWD system. 

Now what is the problem with FWD.... it is balance of the car, RWD naturally tends to overseer and that is what you want in the car, FWD and most AWDs tends to understeer and that automatically takes away from driving pleasure and confidence. It would be right to say IS mk2 tends to understeer as well when pushed to the limits, but that is not be cause of inherent balance, but because of how stability control is adjusted... when car naturally starts to overseer it quickly overreacts and you end-up understeering (or in the ditch). However, all the way to the limit IS feels just fine like any other RWD.

Now obviously, if you buying car for commuting only and you have no plants to ever do any spirited driving in it... then there is no difference whatsoever which wheels does the job. But in that case what is the reason to go for ES? IS is already good commuter car and it is sufficiently streamlined to quite closely match the looks of " door coupe" e.g. roof line is quite low and rear head room is already more limited than say in BMW 3 series or MB C-class... releasing another car which is even more streamlined commuters cars sounds for me like additional confusion in line-up and targeting niche of the niche market and even more niche than Audi A7, CLS and BMW 6 series grand coupe.

[ColinBarber]

On 29/11/2017 at 6:48 PM, Comedian said:

Isn't the ES built in the USA though?

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For the North American market yes, but it is also built in Japan for other markets. Similar to the RX, which is built in Canada and Japan.

[ghost_killer]

I quite like the ES, seen loads in America when I went there, not so many GS's though which is probably reason why there is possibility of it being discontinued, the ES not so much as a re-badged Camry these days ! It is more related to the Toyota Avalon which in turns is based on the Camry, historically during the late 80s and mid to late 90s the Lexus ES (in my opinion anyway) had more sporty looks with its frameless windows as the 1st gen ES250 was exactly same as the JDM only Camry Prominent / Vista - both these cars had frameless windows and reduced height compared to the regular JDM and export Camry's that the US / Aus / Europe got, moving onto 2nd gen ES essentially re-badged JDM Toyota Camry Prominent / Vista and Windom - again these 3 cars had different and more sporty styling and frameless windows opposed to the export Camry of that era ! In this case it is the Camry so they 'can' make the ES into a 4 door 'coupe' I suppose.