Parking Brake Info Wanted

[dendonc]

My parking brake either needs adjusting tighter or possibly new pads (unlikely?), can anyone tell me how my indi can get at it? alternatively my indi does quite lot of mercs, does this LS400 have access in the same place etc? I have not seen my indi about it yet but dont want to spend 'searching money' on that part, anyone second guess they just need tightening or pads?.

[steve2006]

The LS400 parking brake uses conventional brake shoes located inside the drum section of the rear discs.

I had a similar problem on mine a few years ago when the MOT tester mentioned the parking brake was only just within requirements.

Once the wheel is removed there is a rubber bung which when prised out and the drum positioned correctly gives access to the shoe adjuster at the top, slacken this off,remove the disc fixing screws,rear caliper and mounting bracket and the disc will come off the wheel studs.

Once inside I cleaned the internals with brake cleaner, cleaned any rust off the inside of the drum with a rotary wire brush and  then roughened up the brake shoes ( they tend not to wear out completely) then reassembled everything and finally readjusted the shoes on the adjuster ( adjust this until the drum is locked up then back off slightly to allow free turning)

There should be no need to adjust the parking brake cables which is a PITA.

Below is a link to the tutorial for replacing the rear discs which may be useful although there is no mention of adjusting the parking brake shoes up as I described above.

http://www.lexls.com/tutorials/brake/rbrotor.html

[dendonc]

2 hours ago, steve2006 said:

adjust the parking brake cables which is a PITA

What does PITA mean.................as regards all the other things......hmmm well as regards those......hells bells, think  might for once call lexus and ask them for a quote, it all sounds more of a nightmare than Corbyn being elected, it really looked a pigs ear job in the making, whatever happened to the good old handbrake eh?

Thanks a lot for the input.....jeeze, who on earth would want to be a mechanic...

[ColinBarber]

1 hour ago, dendonc said:

What does PITA mean.................

pain in the a...

[dendonc]

I was looking at Rockauto, they are selling ''parking brake shoes'' but I dont see pads, so is a parking brake ''shoe'' what I want instead of a pad, heres the place & shoes but Im lost now as to what I really want, old pads off new pads 'seemed' the easiest but I dont see parking brake pads at all on rockauto

http://www.rockauto.com/en/catalog/lexus,1995,ls400,4.0l+v8,1187502,brake+&+wheel+hub,parking+brake+shoe,10177

[steve2006]

The rear brakes on the LS consist of a combined disc brake for the foot brakes and drum brakes for the parking brake so 2 different and independent systems.

Once the disc is removed the parking brake shoes will be revealed as shown below and as I said in my previous post the brake shoes rarely wear to a point where they need replacing. Generally a good clean, lubrication of the moving parts, a good scrub of the friction surfaces with some sandpaper and correct adjustment will restore good parking brake action.

Picture below shows Brake shoes exposed after the disc removed.(These are the same parts on your Rock Auto link)

Any half decent garage should be able to carry out the work in a couple of hours at most.

 

[dendonc]

OK thanks for all the input so far, I actually think it's begining to sink in, the photo of the shoes above & rockauto's photo of same new 'shoes' combined with the input more or less put it all together, I'll get my indi to do it, in the past he's never really said anything about them but my last MOT I also was told I will need to get them fixed, I can press the foot pedal almost down to the floor, thats what made me think 'pads', 23 year old car.......are many other cars using similar systems these days? thanks for all that anyway

[Topper Harley]

Lot's use this system . Toyota Subaru Merc BMW Kia/Hyundai Izuzu ............

14 hours ago, dendonc said:

OK thanks for all the input so far, I actually think it's begining to sink in, the photo of the shoes above & rockauto's photo of same new 'shoes' combined with the input more or less put it all together, I'll get my indi to do it, in the past he's never really said anything about them but my last MOT I also was told I will need to get them fixed, I can press the foot pedal almost down to the floor, thats what made me think 'pads', 23 year old car.......are many other cars using similar systems these days? thanks for all that anyway

 

[39buss]

The parking brake is just an old fashioned, low tech drum system with the same old problems. Dirt and dust clogging things up and it can seize with the results seen in the attached photo. In this instance the cable was seized in the lining. The casting bolted to the back plate can break cos you can get a lot of weight on it with your left leg.  Even when new the friction linings on the shoes are small and thin so, as Steve says, wheel off, caliper off, disc off and clean and lube all moving parts.      

[MLW]

My handbrake went 'down' quite a bit'. Asked my local Formula 1 Autocentre chain 'clean it off and set it up'. They took the disc/drum off, cleaned it all up, and re-set it'.

The effect was great, Good bite, and about 4-5 clicks to a lock-up.

Cost about £30-35.

[The-Acre]

As we've often said, use the parking brake always, that way it keeps parts moving.

[ambermarine]

The shoe surface does disappear at a rapid rate if you drive away after forgetting you had set it which happened on my mark 1.

I eventually stopped using it and that LED to the seizing up which required a full strip down.

 

[dendonc]

2 hours ago, ambermarine said:

The shoe surface does disappear at a rapid rate if you drive away after forgetting you had set it

I have done that a few times, how 'few' times & for how far I don't know/can't remember,  it don't sound to good if that's the case

[dendonc]

On 11/16/2017 at 10:39 PM, MLW said:

asked my local Formula 1 Autocentre chain 'clean it off and set it up'. They took the disc/drum off, cleaned it all up, and re-set it'.

I've found the nearest to me, Ill ask my normal mechi if he wants the work first & if he's 'not so keen' Ill use them, how much did they charge you for the work?

 

On 11/16/2017 at 3:22 PM, 39buss said:

The parking brake is just an old fashioned, low tech drum system with the same old problems

I have a variety of cars since 1966, I never had one single handbrake problem with any of them, not one!

[steve2006]

On 16/11/2017 at 10:39 PM, MLW said:

My handbrake went 'down' quite a bit'. Asked my local Formula 1 Autocentre chain 'clean it off and set it up'. They took the disc/drum off, cleaned it all up, and re-set it'.

The effect was great, Good bite, and about 4-5 clicks to a lock-up.

Cost about £30-35.

That's exactly what I did but with DIY also save myself the cost :)

[dendonc]

On 11/16/2017 at 10:39 PM, MLW said:

Cost about £30-35.

I missed that before, OK than ks

[plastic orange]

My pedal went almost to the floor on my first use of the car after being on hols (never leave brake on if left for a while), so I suspect a cable failure as pedal was fine before hols. Rear discs and handbrake shoes were replaced last year, so I'll investigate before MOT next month. Just another thing wearing out after 18 years I suppose. My car could do with all the niggles sorted, but I'm weighing up if it's all worth doing.

 

Pete

[runsgrateasanut]

On 18/11/2017 at 8:38 AM, dendonc said:

I've found the nearest to me, Ill ask my normal mechi if he wants the work first & if he's 'not so keen' Ill use them, how much did they charge you for the work?

 

I have a variety of cars since 1966, I never had one single handbrake problem with any of them, not one!

Thats because older Cars had just one system at the rear being brake shoes which worked by either the foot pedal or the handbrake.

Having a Disc and a Drum at the rear is OK if you use it regularly to park and don't leave it "on" mwhen you drive off becuase as someone said they are very thin linings.

[dendonc]

7 hours ago, runsgrateasanut said:

Having a Disc and a Drum at the rear is OK if you use it regularly to park

Actually I took more notice today of what 'was' there & theres more there than I thought, based on that I think a clean up should be enough, I just hope it don't need any new parts at Lexus prices

[39buss]

All the parts are available after market without going to Lexus.

[dendonc]

51 minutes ago, 39buss said:

All the parts are available after market without going to Lexus

Are they on a brit site? if so which? thanks

[39buss]

My regular garage sourced them from his supplier and fitted them as a new brake cable was needed as well and definitely a job requiring the hoist.  Brake cable, as seen above,  came from Lexus (£60) as we couldn't find one at all on the web.

[Cotswold Pete]

On 17/11/2017 at 9:29 AM, ambermarine said:

The shoe surface does disappear at a rapid rate if you drive away after forgetting you had set it which happened on my mark 1.

 

Did that once in current Mk4, and it was not all noticeable on the short drive from office down to the dual carriageway, but once I hit 35mph on dual carriageway it sounds like I had a full set of Minions clog dancing in the boot, and did not know what the heck was happening until I looked at console to see that parking light staring at me.

I know my brake is only just meeting MOT standard (for last 3 years), and it is naff at holding the car on any hill that looks like a hill, so maybe time to go to my local garage and insist on a proper clean, and then find a 20% gradient to do a hill start on.

[Malc]

 rarely use the manual foot brake except when I'm parked on a steep gradient and then I think that the gearbox in " park " should hold the car anyway !

Am I wrong in my thoughts guys ?  Are there official statistics about the gearbox in " park " doesn't hold the car ?

Thanks

Malc

[Cotswold Pete]

Not sure if there are any stats on how many autos in park have ended up rolling down a hill where the pawl in the gearbox snapped.  It is not a huge bit of metal so parking and LS on a 20% for long periods may well create a problem.

However the MOT pass rate for an LS is 16% (see MOT Manual ) and last time mine was 18% ( I recall) and my handbrake is next to useless when the gradient gets to 10%.

I would have thought from an engineering view point parking on steep hills (a lot) is going to create more strain and potential failure of the parts, whether it was auto or manual, it is just that with a manual you can park in gear which has less chance of failing than a pawl in the auto-box.

Be interesting if anyone has ever known a failure of LS pawl.