Dipped headlights

[Glover]

Sitting in you car you very rarely see your car's lights but the other night I did my usual check that all lights were working.  For the first time I realised that the dipped lights were the inner rather than the outer lights.  Outer lights dipped is the configuration on every other car I've had and over the last few days I've noticed that every car with it's lights on has dipped on the outside.  just wondered is this a Lexus peculiarity and is anyone aware why they are set up like that?  Given the position of the sidelights it means the edges of the car aren't marked.  Says something about the cars that the majority of postings on the forum (this one included!) have nothing to do with faults, breakdowns and problems.

[DanD]

Other cars have a similar configuration: Peugeot 208, previous generation Renault Scenic, previous generation Seat Altea/Toledo/Leon and others.

[Glover]

Wonder why manufacturer's choose a particular configuration?  Strangely according to my handbook it looks like the LED equipped cars have the outer lights as the dipped beams.  On the subject of LEDs is it just a straight swap to change the side lights from conventional to LED?

[iwonder]

Aslong as the LED fits in the housing and are of the same type they will work fine (e.g. 501). 
If you fit LED bulbs double check once fitted that they do not shine (very dim) when lights should be off as you will get back to your car with a flt Battery
 

[Brian26]

Hi, I have changed my sidelights for LED bulbs. The only problem I found was the actual lengh of the bulb. The first one's I got were too long. From memory the first ones were constructed with I think two LEDs either side of the pcb and one stuck on the end making them rather long. The second ones I got were only 1 LED either side of the pcb and one on top. These fitted perfectly. The longer ones I used for the rear sidelights and had no problems getting them to fit.

Hope this helps

Bri

[rayaans]

21 hours ago, Glover said:

Wonder why manufacturer's choose a particular configuration?  Strangely according to my handbook it looks like the LED equipped cars have the outer lights as the dipped beams.  On the subject of LEDs is it just a straight swap to change the side lights from conventional to LED?

My 4RX F-Sport just has LED lights in the whole housing.

Worth remembering that LED headlights or sidelights are illegal if being retrofitted. The LED lamps fitted as standard to vehicles are tested whereas LED conversions are not. Possible MOT fail if spotted by the examiner

https://www.motoringassist.com/motoring-advice/news/fit-led-lighting-car-legally/

[Glover]

Hi all.  Thanks for the very useful comments and Rayaans you are a mine of information; the article is enlightening (sorry!!!).  I assume that although some pre-facelift 3RXs (SE-L and Premier?) have LED sidelights that these bulbs, even if bought from Lexus, cannot be fitted on a 3RX that did not have them as an original fitment.

[rayaans]

1 hour ago, Glover said:

Hi all.  Thanks for the very useful comments and Rayaans you are a mine of information; the article is enlightening (sorry!!!).  I assume that although some pre-facelift 3RXs (SE-L and Premier?) have LED sidelights that these bulbs, even if bought from Lexus, cannot be fitted on a 3RX that did not have them as an original fitment.

Technically no, however it's one of those cases where you can be certain that you'll be fairly safe if using the same bulbs and you've got them from a dealer.

I think the problem is mainly with aftermarket conversion LED bulbs which have a different pattern of light and aren't approved.

 If an LED headlight bulb blew in a dipped beam light, they aren't legally allowed to change the bulb, they have to change the whole headlamp assembly! 

[JeffL]

21 hours ago, rayaans said:

My 4RX F-Sport just has LED lights in the whole housing.

Worth remembering that LED headlights or sidelights are illegal if being retrofitted. The LED lamps fitted as standard to vehicles are tested whereas LED conversions are not. Possible MOT fail if spotted by the examiner

https://www.motoringassist.com/motoring-advice/news/fit-led-lighting-car-legally/

Amazing what we learn on this forum and rayaans you are very knowledgeable. After reading the above it occurs to me that when buying a used vehicle it's an additional thing to check that illegal/wrong type bulbs haven't been fitted by the previous owner(s)! 

[iwonder]

You wouldn't fail an MOT on LED sidelights unless they were blue so do be too concerned about it, just by good quality LEDs and enjoy.

[rayaans]

On 15/11/2017 at 6:11 PM, iwonder said:

You wouldn't fail an MOT on LED sidelights unless they were blue so do be too concerned about it, just by good quality LEDs and enjoy.

At discretion of the examiner tbh

Any LED pointing horizontally onto the road in face of oncoming traffic can be failed.

[iwonder]

10 minutes ago, rayaans said:

At discretion of the examiner tbh

Any LED pointing horizontally onto the road in face of oncoming traffic can be failed.

What reason for rejection would that come under? I never seen that for position lights, only reg plate lights. 

[Fireblade1]

I changed my sidelight bulbs to LED gs 450h took the car to Lexus on Monday for a mot failed the mot on the LED bulbs they had to put the proper bulbs in,and do a retest and the LED's we're really white not blue

Edited November 16, 2017 by Fireblade1

[rayaans]

2 hours ago, iwonder said:

What reason for rejection would that come under? I never seen that for position lights, only reg plate lights. 

Because as I mentioned already, any LED lights fitted as an aftermarket upgrade which is facing oncoming traffic is illegal. The reason for this is because LED lights are brighter and have a different pattern of light compared to conventional halogen bulbs. The LED aftermarket bulbs are not tested and certainly not approved for UK road use and hence why they would be MOT fails.

Robert has clearly outlined this in his experience here :

1 hour ago, Fireblade1 said:

I changed my sidelight bulbs to led gs 450h took the car to Lexus on Monday for a mot failed the mot on the led bulbs they had to put the proper bulbs in,and do a retest and the LED's we're really white not blue

 

[iwonder]

2 hours ago, Fireblade1 said:

I changed my sidelight bulbs to led gs 450h took the car to Lexus on Monday for a mot failed the mot on the led bulbs they had to put the proper bulbs in,and do a retest and the LED's we're really white not blue

What was the failure? Incorrect colour I assume?

1 hour ago, rayaans said:

Because as I mentioned already, any LED lights fitted as an aftermarket upgrade which is facing oncoming traffic is illegal. The reason for this is because LED lights are brighter and have a different pattern of light compared to conventional halogen bulbs. The LED aftermarket bulbs are not tested and certainly not approved for UK road use and hence why they would be MOT fails.

Robert has clearly outlined this in his experience here :

 

I understand where your coming from but I think your confusing the two, you seem to be referring to dipped beam, which would still pass provided the pattern was ok. The only failure for front sidelights people get failures for is incorrect colour because they get blue looking ones, which is purely based on the testers opinion. The fact the LED sidelight is aftermarket or not E marked has nothing to do with the MOT. The same goes for aftermarket DRL lights, as long as they dont replace the original sidelights. Where there is any doubt, the tester is supposed to give the benefit of doubt and pass that area of inspection.
MOT is a very basic roadworthy check. You can pass an MOT and get pulled by police and fined on the same day, the MOT standards are that low. 

[Fireblade1]

I am talking about the side light bulbs I did query it with them and they said because the car wasn't made with LEDs they had to fail it they couldn't even give an advisory

[iwonder]

27 minutes ago, Fireblade1 said:

I am talking about the side light bulbs I did query it with them and they said because the car wasn't made with LEDs they had to fail it they couldn't even give an advisory

What's your reg? You can give an advisory for anything so they are lying to you. 

[Fireblade1]

43 minutes ago, iwonder said:

What's your reg? You can give an advisory for anything so they are lying to you. 

how does,that,work if you got four,bald tyres you won't get an advisory you'll get a fail

[rayaans]

11 hours ago, iwonder said:

What was the failure? Incorrect colour I assume?

I understand where your coming from but I think your confusing the two, you seem to be referring to dipped beam, which would still pass provided the pattern was ok. The only failure for front sidelights people get failures for is incorrect colour because they get blue looking ones, which is purely based on the testers opinion. The fact the LED sidelight is aftermarket or not E marked has nothing to do with the MOT. The same goes for aftermarket DRL lights, as long as they dont replace the original sidelights. Where there is any doubt, the tester is supposed to give the benefit of doubt and pass that area of inspection.
MOT is a very basic roadworthy check. You can pass an MOT and get pulled by police and fined on the same day, the MOT standards are that low. 

Robert has already said that the failure was due to the sidelight being an LED - the colour has nothing to do with it. If a car has an LED light in the main headlight housing and didn't come with it from the factory, regardless of colour, it will fail if the MOT examiner spots it.

The dipped beam would not pass MOT if done by a competent MOT examiner if it was an LED aftermarket bulb

I dont think you understand the law - the bottom line is that any LED aftermarket bulb facing oncoming traffic in the main headlight housing is illegal simply because the beam pattern is different and the bulbs are not approved for road use. 

If there is ANY doubt - the inspector would need to get in contact with someone superior - not just pass it off. 

For your information - aftermarket LED DRLs are also illegal unless they have the RL mark which means they have been tested for their beam pattern and brightness. 

Also, if you get pulled over after an MOT, it'd be for something other than what the MOT looks at otherwise the examiner/centre is in trouble.

[Glover]

This forum is great; there's so much knowledge and I now know that LEDs at the front in any of the lights are only permissible if original fitment.  Does anyone know if there is an alternative halogen sidelight bulb that glows whiter than the original fitment, which is a bit too yellow for my liking.

[iwonder]

10 hours ago, rayaans said:

Robert has already said that the failure was due to the sidelight being an LED - the colour has nothing to do with it. If a car has an LED light in the main headlight housing and didn't come with it from the factory, regardless of colour, it will fail if the MOT examiner spots it.

The dipped beam would not pass MOT if done by a competent MOT examiner if it was an LED aftermarket bulb

I dont think you understand the law - the bottom line is that any LED aftermarket bulb facing oncoming traffic in the main headlight housing is illegal simply because the beam pattern is different and the bulbs are not approved for road use. 

If there is ANY doubt - the inspector would need to get in contact with someone superior - not just pass it off. 

For your information - aftermarket LED DRLs are also illegal unless they have the RL mark which means they have been tested for their beam pattern and brightness. 

Also, if you get pulled over after an MOT, it'd be for something other than what the MOT looks at otherwise the examiner/centre is in trouble.

Sorry mate but that's completely false. It's not worth going any further as your mixing legal with MOT inspection, which are completely different. Your understanding of the MOT is way off. The manual is online for all to see, method of inspection and reason for rejections are clearly stated. 

It might well be illegal in the eyes of the law but MOT isn't the law. 

Letsjust agree to disagree 👍

 

[sorcerer]

I think this article may be of help in this discussion.

[Fireblade1]

11 minutes ago, sorcerer said:

I think this article may be of help in this discussion.

very good article well worth reading

[iwonder]

51 minutes ago, sorcerer said:

I think this article may be of help in this discussion.

Yep

"2. My car has passed its MoT Test with an LED bulb fitted, surely this makes them safe and legal?
The MoT is a minimum safety standard that does not permit dismantling to be carried-out during the examination. It does not, generally, enforce Type Approval. Therefore, it is possible to have an unroadworthy car that has just passed its MoT Test."

This is what I'm talking about. They may be illegal, but they will pass an MOT. Police don't seem to care about LED sidelights either, judging by the number of cars with them fitted around my area.

I saw a brand new CT today going for its PDI, the DRLs are stupidly bright. Surprised they are even allowed as standard. 

[rayaans]

 

14 hours ago, iwonder said:

Sorry mate but that's completely false. It's not worth going any further as your mixing legal with MOT inspection, which are completely different. Your understanding of the MOT is way off. The manual is online for all to see, method of inspection and reason for rejections are clearly stated. 

It might well be illegal in the eyes of the law but MOT isn't the law. 

Letsjust agree to disagree 👍

 

I know the difference between legal aspects and the MOT. 

Many LED sidelights do fail their MOT and the reason they put down is "Incorrect colour" or something along the lines of that. The machines tend to show the light output as blue despite the LED looking white to the eye and you won't even notice a blue tinge. Some bulbs may get away with it, most don't as plenty of modded used cars (particularly of the VW Golf and Audi A3) etc seem to have come up with these failure reasons on MOT. I wouldn't doubt that some centres put down that the headlight adjustment is incorrect if using LED bulbs as the dipped beam.

"It might well be illegal in the eyes of the law but MOT isn't the law" 

The above statement doesn't make sense - if the MOT is failed, you're breaking the law and you're not insured..... albeit for a brief period of time.