Gen 4 rx450. Winter tyres----your thoughts

[goody]

Hi guys 

my car is due it's first service this weekend and I'm thinking of having some winter tyres fitted whilst their 

i've never had winter tyres on any of my cars before, what are your thoughts---- total waste of money?  £900

its the main kid transporter in our family and the wife drives it the most, my thinking is just the safety in the cold winter being able to stop and Manoeuvre on ice/snow and better stopping in rain.

had zero issues with my RX done 10k in 12 months without a problem just like our old rx400h, great cars.

[grantwils]

Absolutely 100% do it. 

I run winter tyres on all my cars. On my C200CDI I've been running them since October last year. On my 2015 Touareg 262bhp V6 I ran them from Oct 16 to June 17. 

In my C200 which is RWD auto I've towed 4WD freelanders and imprezas up hills they couldn't get up despite having 4WD. In my Touareg I towed a fully loaded 2WD 7.5t truck with trailer up a hill that cars couldn't get up. 

Aside from being an absolute machine in the snow you'll take great comfort in the fact your car will have massive safety improvements in terms of braking and cornering when it's just wet and cold. 

I  wouldn't want my kids being in any car over winter that wasn't wearing winter rubber. I'd much rather they used winter tyres in summer if i couldn't afford 2 sets. Even cheap winter tyres are orders of magnitude better than expensive summer tyres in winter. 

I generally have 2 sets of wheels as changing rubber is £40 a time so £80/year. A second hand set of OEM wheels can be had for £200 for most cars. I got new OEM VW rims for the VW for the Touareg; 2nd hand Merc rims for £250 for the Merc; and refurbished (diamond cut) Kia rims for the RX for £330. I always go to the smallest diameter wheel  which fits over the caliper because tyres are cheaper, comfort improves, and potholes are less damaging. 

You really won't regret it, and if you do you'll get decent money for the wheels and tyres second hand. Just check if any relevant tyre pressure sensors are included. Sometimes they're not (I've never bothered).

[stevet]

If you don't fancy swapping them over twice a year go for some all seasons.

[rich1068]

Or just leave the winters on. No harm in that. Unless your wife regularly laps the Nurburgring. I left Nokian WR3 SUVs on my 2014 XC90 year round. 

I know I keep banging on about this but don't get hung up on the tyre thing. Put some decent all seasons or winters on and forget them. Anything else is marketing and forum pish.

#grumpy 

[grantwils]

Totally agree with Rich. 

Ran Vredestein Wintrac Xtreme S all year round on a 262bhp Touareg with no issues at all. Same with TS830Ps on a C-class. 

Either have two sets of wheels & tyres for summer and winter use or just use all season or winter all year round. It's far more sensible than using summers all year round. 

Here's some videos but they only show extreme conditions. Massive improvements in safety just when it's cold and wet with no snow or ice is the main reason I use them. The fact that they mean you can go anywhere in snow is just a nice to have.

It's often cheaper to run separate winter and summer tyres than it is to use summer tyres all year round too, contrary to popular belief. 

 

 

 

[rich1068]

That second vid with Mat Watson is just the one I was looking for when this question was posted elsewhere the other day. Thought it was Carbuyer.

[goody]

Hi guys

thank you for your replies everyone.

just shown the wife those videos and it's a no brainier 👍🏻

Winters tyres all round, I'll keep an eye out for a spare set of alloys for 450 so I can just swop the set myself at home.

many thanks

also reading off the forum, I've ordered some LED reverse bulbs to help when reversing in the dark as the normal bulbs don't help when looking through the camera, you can hardly see anything.

cheers

[rayaans]

Ill be honest with you, Ive had all the RXs bar the 1st gen and Ive never bothered to put winter tyres on any of them. I find them quite stodgy and the feel of the car is altered. I've also never been stuck and I live in the hilliest area in England! 

If the RX was an RWD then yes, but its FWD with an effective snow mode and Ive never had any troubles. 

I ran All season tyres on my 3RX and they were better in the rain than OEM but then it could be that they're just better tyres.

Its not the tyres that will save you, its the mushy thing between the ears - stick to main roads, grit your driveway etc etc and don't be stupid - goes a long way in the winter but many people lack a simple thing called common sense

 

[grantwils]

31 minutes ago, rayaans said:

Ill be honest with you, Ive had all the RXs bar the 1st gen and Ive never bothered to put winter tyres on any of them. I find them quite stodgy and the feel of the car is altered. I've also never been stuck and I live in the hilliest area in England! 

If the RX was an RWD then yes, but its FWD with an effective snow mode and Ive never had any troubles. 

I ran All season tyres on my 3RX and they were better in the rain than OEM but then it could be that they're just better tyres.

Its not the tyres that will save you, its the mushy thing between the ears - stick to main roads, grit your driveway etc etc and don't be stupid - goes a long way in the winter but many people lack a simple thing called common sense

 

Fair points except the mushy bit between the ears doesn't help you get up an icy/snowy hill when you're caught out by unexpected snow, doesn't help you get to hospital when the kid is unwell and ambulance can't get to you and doesn't help you avoid hitting the idiot out of control on your side of the road.  Winter tyres have proved their worth for me in every one of those situations. 

[rayaans]

32 minutes ago, grantwils said:

Fair points except the mushy bit between the ears doesn't help you get up an icy/snowy hill when you're caught out by unexpected snow, doesn't help you get to hospital when the kid is unwell and ambulance can't get to you and doesn't help you avoid hitting the idiot out of control on your side of the road.  Winter tyres have proved their worth for me in every one of those situations. 

Maybe but if you've never experienced getting stuck even in Yorkshire and I also ran an RWD car for 2 years then it doesn't make sense

[grantwils]

1 hour ago, rayaans said:

Maybe but if you've never experienced getting stuck even in Yorkshire and I also ran an RWD car for 2 years then it doesn't make sense

Again, each to their own. But if you can save money and be safer, with less risk of collisions, getting stuck or wheel damage... why would you not?

[chris_fletcher]

Sorry Rayaans I think it is bad advice to sat winter tyres arent worth it. The evidence available strongly suggests otherwise and for safety and peace of mind may be worth it. However on my gen1&2 RX300s summer tyres fared rather well in snow on even steep hills and as I typically drive miss daisy I dont worry too much about low temperature stopping distance improvements (possibly foolish I know) Having said that my gen1 GS300 and CT200H were useless on snow with summer tyres and my wife had to tow me into our estate on a moderate hill with her Honda CRV on summer tyres, which she never tires of reminding me. Never got to try snow with the IS300H but I suspect this would have been equally as bad given the big fat low profile rear tyres. Video clips on Youtube indicate that winter tyres on a FWD or RWD vehicle would do much better than summer ones on a 4WD in snow and stopping distances are massively improved. In fact if I could afford another set of OEM FSport wheels with winter tyres I might consider it

Just my two penneth

[rayaans]

9 minutes ago, chris_fletcher said:

Sorry Rayaans I think it is bad advice to sat winter tyres arent worth it. The evidence available strongly suggests otherwise and for safety and peace of mind may be worth it. However on my gen1&2 RX300s summer tyres fared rather well in snow on even steep hills and as I typically drive miss daisy I dont worry too much about low temperature stopping distance improvements (possibly foolish I know) Having said that my gen1 GS300 and CT200H were useless on snow with summer tyres and my wife had to tow me into our estate on a moderate hill with her Honda CRV on summer tyres, which she never tires of reminding me. Never got to try snow with the IS300H but I suspect this would have been equally as bad given the big fat low profile rear tyres. Video clips on Youtube indicate that winter tyres on a FWD or RWD vehicle would do much better than summer ones on a 4WD in snow and stopping distances are massively improved. In fact if I could afford another set of OEM FSport wheels with winter tyres I might consider it

Just my two penneth

The main problem is that our climate is nowhere near as bad as other countries to warrant a change IMO. We get maybe 2 days of snow, a week perhaps at most and for those 7 days, Ill take the main road and grit my driveway each night. Ive ran the IS300h through the winter in heavy snow and the RXs as well with no issues. 

You get a little bit more slip, but nothing drastic and certainly nowhere near the kind that you see in the videos posted above. 

I know the winter tyres are supposedly supposed to work at less than 7 degrees but Ive never noticed a massive improvement when its not snowing and its just under 7 degrees. Hence, all seasons are probably a better bet but they're hard to find on the IS300h F-Sport and for the awkward 4RX size. 

I also take it easy for the first few miles just to warm the tyres up and then summers are fine for 90% of the year

 

[DanD]

I lived in Bavaria for 9 years and the use of winter tyres was a must. You would typically swap at the end of October, and again at the end of March, typically using plain steel wheels rather than alloys over the winter so that you would not have to worry so much about corrosion or kerbing when sliding into a kerb! Most garages would charge a few quid a year for storing your unused set of wheels, and the service would include inspection and fitting each time you were ready to swap.

The cost of running two sets was in fact minimal: your tyres being used 5/6 months per year lasted twice as long.

Having said that, winter tyres are not worth the expense unless you regularly drive in snow and in temperatures below 7 degrees: Aside from different tread, winter tyres are made of a softer compound that will wear very much quicker than summer tyres above 7 degrees, without added benefits. In fact, I would go as far that road holding is negatively impacted when driving in winter tyres in "warmer" temperatures AND you will notice an decrease in your MPG because of the added friction.

Personally, investing in good quality all-season tyres makes much more sense, especially in a AWD vehicle, unless you drive in snow and ice more than 75% of your time.

[grantwils]

46 minutes ago, DanD said:

The cost of running two sets was in fact minimal: your tyres being used 5/6 months per year lasted twice as long.

Having said that, winter tyres are not worth the expense unless you regularly drive in snow and in temperatures below 7 degrees: Aside from different tread, winter tyres are made of a softer compound that will wear very much quicker than summer tyres above 7 degrees, without added benefits. In fact, I would go as far that road holding is negatively impacted when driving in winter tyres in "warmer" temperatures AND you will notice an decrease in your MPG because of the added friction.

Personally, investing in good quality all-season tyres makes much more sense, especially in a AWD vehicle, unless you drive in snow and ice more than 75% of your time.

 

I'm not disagreeing, just making a couple of points.

The average annual temperature in the UK is 8.5-11 degrees. The average temp is below 7 degrees everywhere in the UK in winter. So, based on that, pretty much everyone benefits from winter tyres. 

The experience of negative road holding in summer on winter tyres is an order of magnitude less of an issue than the road holding of summer tyres in winter. So based on that winter tyres all year round is better than summer tyres all year round. Adverse handling of winter tyres in summer would only be experienced if you were making serious progress anyway. 

I've used winter tyres all year round on a C-class and a V6 Touareg and noticed no difference in wear rates or fuel consumption. I get the same range out tank regardless of what tyres are on them. I was really surprised at the wear rates I got from winters in summer. 

I haven't done the maths but I'd say the cost of alleged increased fuel consumption would easily be offset by the fact good winter tyres are generally cheaper and certainly by the cost & inconvenience of getting stuck or having a bump or kerbing a rim. 

All seasons are a compromise in both winter and summer. It's better than using winter tyres in summer and better than summer tyres in winter, but it's also not as good as summer rubber in summer and winter rubber in winter. 

Best bet is two sets of wheels and tyres if you have space to store them. Winter rubber all year is easily a better idea than summer rubber all year. All seasons are a good idea if you can't have two sets or if you can avoid the more extreme winter conditions. 

Given that I live at the bottom of a hill in central Scotland and have two kids with underlying health issues we'd choose winter all year over all seasons. 

[rayaans]

4 hours ago, grantwils said:

I'm not disagreeing, just making a couple of points.

The average annual temperature in the UK is 8.5-11 degrees. The average temp is below 7 degrees everywhere in the UK in winter. So, based on that, pretty much everyone benefits from winter tyres. 

The experience of negative road holding in summer on winter tyres is an order of magnitude less of an issue than the road holding of summer tyres in winter. So based on that winter tyres all year round is better than summer tyres all year round. Adverse handling of winter tyres in summer would only be experienced if you were making serious progress anyway. 

I've used winter tyres all year round on a C-class and a V6 Touareg and noticed no difference in wear rates or fuel consumption. I get the same range out tank regardless of what tyres are on them. I was really surprised at the wear rates I got from winters in summer. 

I haven't done the maths but I'd say the cost of alleged increased fuel consumption would easily be offset by the fact good winter tyres are generally cheaper and certainly by the cost & inconvenience of getting stuck or having a bump or kerbing a rim. 

All seasons are a compromise in both winter and summer. It's better than using winter tyres in summer and better than summer tyres in winter, but it's also not as good as summer rubber in summer and winter rubber in winter. 

Best bet is two sets of wheels and tyres if you have space to store them. Winter rubber all year is easily a better idea than summer rubber all year. All seasons are a good idea if you can't have two sets or if you can avoid the more extreme winter conditions. 

Given that I live at the bottom of a hill in central Scotland and have two kids with underlying health issues we'd choose winter all year over all seasons. 

If I was living in Scotland, then yes, I probably would opt for winter tyres as well.

I see you mentioned that all seasons are a compromise between summers and winters. The real question is, would this compromise make much of a difference in everyday driving or only on the limit of the vehicle?

Additionally, there are some tyres - like the Michelin Cross-Climates which seem to have no compromise whatsoever, bar the price of course but then its still cheaper than getting an extra set of tyres.

[grantwils]

If I was living in Scotland, then yes, I probably would opt for winter tyres as well.
I see you mentioned that all seasons are a compromise between summers and winters. The real question is, would this compromise make much of a difference in everyday driving or only on the limit of the vehicle?
Additionally, there are some tyres - like the Michelin Cross-Climates which seem to have no compromise whatsoever, bar the price of course but then its still cheaper than getting an extra set of tyres.

All seasons will be just as good in summer as summer rubber unless you’re pushing on. Same in winter with the exception of extreme weather when they’ll be obviously poor.

Running 2 sets of wheels can be cheaper than running summer rubber all year with only 1 set. 2nd hand OEM wheels don’t depreciate much at all. Buy them for £300 and sell them for £250-300 if you change cars. Winter rubber is generally cheaper than summer especially if you can go down sizes. 20” summer Tyres for my Touareg were over £200. I bought brand new OEM 17” winters for £300 a set and premium tyres were half the price of 20” summers.

Replacement set of 20” summer rubber = £800.
17” wheels and 4 winter tyres = £700 but you’ll have a set of wheels which will always be worth £250 so true cost is £450.

I had the Touareg for 2 years, did 22k. Spent £700 on winter rubber and rims. Summer rims stayed pristine. Summer tyres still had 6mm tread on when I handed it back. I’ve got a set of winter wheels and tyres to sell which will easily get £500. If I didn’t run winters I’d have had to replace at least 2 summer tyres for £400 before handing it back. So I’d have been £400 down if I didn’t use winter wheels and tyres. I’m probably down £200 as I can easily get £500 for the part worn winters with rims. I’d have to sell the winter rims and tyres for under £300 to be out of pocket.

So I only had the car for 2 years, saved a good £200, didn’t have to worry or think twice about going out in the worst weather Scotland could throw at me, kept my summer rims pristine, had a much safer car for my wife and kids and vastly reduced the risk of winter potholes damaging my wheels. Not to mention the amount of fun I had playing in the snow.

Why on earth would I consider putting on expensive all seasons and costing myself even more money than just sticking with summer would have cost.

All the RX’s have the same wheel figment so you could have bought at 17” set from a S1RX when you bought the first one, saved a fair chunk of cash, had more fun, been safer with less chance of getting stuck.




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[DanD]

On ‎10‎/‎11‎/‎2017 at 2:34 PM, grantwils said:

I'm not disagreeing, just making a couple of points.

The average annual temperature in the UK is 8.5-11 degrees. The average temp is below 7 degrees everywhere in the UK in winter. So, based on that, pretty much everyone benefits from winter tyres. 

The experience of negative road holding in summer on winter tyres is an order of magnitude less of an issue than the road holding of summer tyres in winter. So based on that winter tyres all year round is better than summer tyres all year round. Adverse handling of winter tyres in summer would only be experienced if you were making serious progress anyway. 

I've used winter tyres all year round on a C-class and a V6 Touareg and noticed no difference in wear rates or fuel consumption. I get the same range out tank regardless of what tyres are on them. I was really surprised at the wear rates I got from winters in summer. 

I haven't done the maths but I'd say the cost of alleged increased fuel consumption would easily be offset by the fact good winter tyres are generally cheaper and certainly by the cost & inconvenience of getting stuck or having a bump or kerbing a rim. 

All seasons are a compromise in both winter and summer. It's better than using winter tyres in summer and better than summer tyres in winter, but it's also not as good as summer rubber in summer and winter rubber in winter. 

Best bet is two sets of wheels and tyres if you have space to store them. Winter rubber all year is easily a better idea than summer rubber all year. All seasons are a good idea if you can't have two sets or if you can avoid the more extreme winter conditions. 

Given that I live at the bottom of a hill in central Scotland and have two kids with underlying health issues we'd choose winter all year over all seasons. 

All reasonable points...

I have to admit that I was surprised by your statement about the average temp is below 7 degrees everywhere in the UK in winter, but it would seem that the Met Office agrees with you!

[grantwils]

40 minutes ago, DanD said:

All reasonable points...

I have to admit that I was surprised by your statement about the average temp is below 7 degrees everywhere in the UK in winter, but it would seem that the Met Office agrees with you!

Ha, I only know that because I work in a world where outside temp has a big effect on the efficiency/cost of our key (cooling) systems. I didn't believe it at first when I was originally told. 

[rayaans]

35 minutes ago, grantwils said:

Ha, I only know that because I work in a world where outside temp has a big effect on the efficiency/cost of our key (cooling) systems. I didn't believe it at first when I was originally told. 

Its 6 degrees here today but I haven't noticed any drop in tyre performance on these crap bridgestones. 

its 9-10 deg for the rest of the week though :D

[grantwils]

Its 6 degrees here today but I haven't noticed any drop in tyre performance on these crap bridgestones. 
its 9-10 deg for the rest of the week though :D

We haven’t done the maths around the fact most of the population uses their cars primarily during the rush hours, not mid afternoon when its warmest. So I’d wager the average temp, during the average commute, is well under 7 degrees for 6 months of the year (I think)


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[chris_fletcher]

OK so what smaller wheels and tyre combination would be a substitute for my 235/55 r20 as I cant get my preferred Micheli Crossclimates to fit oem wheels

[grantwils]

OK so what smaller wheels and tyre combination would be a substitute for my 235/55 r20 as I cant get my preferred Micheli Crossclimates to fit oem wheels

Checkout wheelfitment.eu and willtheyfit.com

I’m not sure 235/55 on 20” is a standard Lexus fitment according to their site!


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[Ian M]

17 hours ago, chris_fletcher said:

OK so what smaller wheels and tyre combination would be a substitute for my 235/55 r20 as I cant get my preferred Micheli Crossclimates to fit oem wheels

Are you sure yours are 20"?  My 2013 model RX has just had Cross Climates fitted this afternoon, 235 55 R 19 is the size on my car.

[chris_fletcher]

Gen 4 RX FSport has 235/55 R20 tyres, so was asking which smaller wheel and tyre combo would do and maintain the overall diameter