Lexus UK dropping GS450h

[Linas.P]

1 hour ago, dutchie01 said:

it still does not add up for me. My IS250 6 pot has direct injection and at idle you do hear the injectors clicking. Strange sound but not audible when revs pick up. My IS300H is just silent.

Maybe you don't "trash it"? 

You see I would describe my experience in IS300h  (I believe it had ~3000 miles) and RC300h (~9000miles) similar to one of @arkviz IS250 "sings" when pushed it, 300h combination it is just not responsive enough for me and it lack power, which in result means I have to push it to get where I want to be and then it just sounds wrong, loud, trashy ... and definitely not quiet. I must say it is quiet is you drive it very slowly and carefully.. and that is not something I do very often. 

@noby76 - 340i... but that is no coupe?! You probably meant 430i? but that is 2.0t ?! how that makes sense? If BMW would make 430e I would get it tomorrow, same if Lexus would RC350 or RC450h, however none are the option.

Just to balance out my criticism for GS300h, in my perspective it is ~ BMW 520d rival. If you ask me which one would I have, my answer would be - neither! 

Now again GS450h is not car for me, I am just not in the market for large 4 doors car, but it this one of the best, equally practical and properly fast, enjoyable car. It being difficult to on Lexus webpage seems for me like it is being phased-out. I hope I am wrong, but you don't put your fanciest things in the back of the store.....

[arkviz]

2 hours ago, noby76 said:

could the fact that its direct injected be the issue? i

I don't think it has anything to do with injection or Premium fuel. Beside DI there are also port injectors and if I am right, they are (indirect) operating when engine is not under heavy load. This is 99% of my driving. Engine itself if quiet and smooth if it is not engaged to driveshaft. For example first hundreds of meters after cold start, or idling in sport mode, it is very smooth. Almost the same as a 6 pot. But once in "gear" whole car shudders like espresso maker.It is more perceivable at low revs. Vibrations are often very irregular. Increasing revs to about 2000 and vibrations are gone. Above 3000 it begins to vibrate again. This sounds more like loos exhaust pipe. It doesn't bother me so much, because i almost do not use this rev range. After longer driving there is another type of vibration. Doesn't matter how many revs there are, whole drivetrain is vibrating like jackhammer. And then there is sometimes a bluster sound. Especially when revs suddenly drop to 1000 on a highway.

I am not a skilled constructor, but i have some points which can cause these problems.
1, Big engine, long stroke - physically must produce more vibration than same cylinder design of a half displacement.
2, heavy car, more load on engine - more vibrations
3, need for low emissions - too low revs - more vibrations. Older automatics didn't allow to go under 1300rpm.
4, need for elasticity - lighter flywheel - more vibrations
5, Atkinson cycle - May be? I think it rather reduces vibrations a little.
6, inline 4 cylinder configuration is the worst for vibrations. You can find many articles about that.
7, vibration dampers lost their capability. New car did almost not vibrate.
8, vibrations making all car parts worn. I Have problem with rattling or droning plastics around seat heating controls. The same and even worse can happen to important mechanical parts.

This evening on my way home, car was surprisingly smooth. Not the best, but better than yesterday.

[Linas.P]

Other point - I am not blindly bashing 300h, I believe CT300h would be cracking car! They way I see it - gone are the times when hybrid meant to be slow and fast cars mean to be thirsty. The proof is the GS450h itself. Surprisingly, Lexus introduced it to luxury segment - the first luxury hybrid car GS450h... and it was cracking one as well. What happened with 200h and 300h options is really beyond me... 

Equally, nobody is buying Lexus to make speed records, but luxury car should have that "effortless" feeling under acceleration, kind of telling - "doesn't matter how much power you need, it will be there when you need it". How much power is needed to drive in London... not much, but the fact you have reserve makes that comfortable/luxury feeling and that is something 300h and 200h doesn't provide.

[Zotto]

Arkviz ,Have you made the firmware update to engine as described in this forum?

[arkviz]

10 minutes ago, Zotto said:

Arkviz ,Have you made the firmware update to engine as described in this forum?

No I didn't. Dealer said, there is everything up to date.

[dutchie01]

11 hours ago, arkviz said:

I don't think it has anything to do with injection or Premium fuel. Beside DI there are also port injectors and if I am right, they are (indirect) operating when engine is not under heavy load. This is 99% of my driving. Engine itself if quiet and smooth if it is not engaged to driveshaft. For example first hundreds of meters after cold start, or idling in sport mode, it is very smooth. Almost the same as a 6 pot. But once in "gear" whole car shudders like espresso maker.It is more perceivable at low revs. Vibrations are often very irregular. Increasing revs to about 2000 and vibrations are gone. Above 3000 it begins to vibrate again. This sounds more like loos exhaust pipe. It doesn't bother me so much, because i almost do not use this rev range. After longer driving there is another type of vibration. Doesn't matter how many revs there are, whole drivetrain is vibrating like jackhammer. And then there is sometimes a bluster sound. Especially when revs suddenly drop to 1000 on a highway.

I am not a skilled constructor, but i have some points which can cause these problems.
1, Big engine, long stroke - physically must produce more vibration than same cylinder design of a half displacement.
2, heavy car, more load on engine - more vibrations
3, need for low emissions - too low revs - more vibrations. Older automatics didn't allow to go under 1300rpm.
4, need for elasticity - lighter flywheel - more vibrations
5, Atkinson cycle - May be? I think it rather reduces vibrations a little.
6, inline 4 cylinder configuration is the worst for vibrations. You can find many articles about that.
7, vibration dampers lost their capability. New car did almost not vibrate.
8, vibrations making all car parts worn. I Have problem with rattling or droning plastics around seat heating controls. The same and even worse can happen to important mechanical parts.

This evening on my way home, car was surprisingly smooth. Not the best, but better than yesterday.

This sounds more like the drivetain issue that bothered the first IS300H cars! Mine was also affected. It was a strange phenomenon around 1800rpm or 80 - 100kmh there was a vibration in the entire drivetrain combined with a heavy metal sounding noise. always when the electric/petrol changeover took place. It was very annoying and ruined the entire ride. There was a thread on the IS forum started by D.Blacha and through that i found out there was a Toyota Service Bulletin at the Lexus dealers and if customers came forward changes would be made to the car. I went to the dealer and i believe they installed some sort of dampers, anyway since then all solved no noise no vibration.

as the engines and total drivetrain are identical this could be thesame issue? Does anybody know on the GS forum if this also affected the GS models?   

[arkviz]

Yes, I've read that topic. Dealer assured me my car has already everything solved, instaled dampers etc... Your post reminded me about one more thing.  When the car was new, it was very hard to recognize when the engine kicked in. Now it is kicking my *****. But not always.

[Zotto]

Giving a look  to tech site you can verify if the update has been made with you car VIN. I had it made on my GS 300h and while in IS 300h the update needs also a mechanical modification in GS it's only software, after it the slight vibration issue disappeared even if it was not so evident also before.

[arkviz]

Where can I verify that?

[Zotto]

Start from here: https://www.lexus-tech.eu/default.aspx

then, after registration (for free), go to "owner" section - ECU updates certificates , input VIN of your GS and you will see if some update has been made or not.

Searching in whole site you can verify if there are updates to do for your car: remind that update is NOT a recall, being a recall strongly suggested, while a simple update is often only made if owner finds some anomaly (indicated in corresponding TSB) and he asks to be it done.

Here my certificate indicating fw update:

img002.pdf

[arkviz]

Thank You Luigi, now i see i have nothing installed. in my car.

 

[noby76]

16 hours ago, Linas.P said:

 

@noby76 - 340i... but that is no coupe?! You probably meant 430i? but that is 2.0t ?! how that makes sense? If BMW would make 430e I would get it tomorrow, same if Lexus would RC350 or RC450h, however none are the option.

Now again GS450h is not car for me, I am just not in the market for large 4 doors car, 

The car for you can be found at Infiniti in form of Q60 3.0T (which I am guess the interior does not appeal to you even though i personally think its a cracking looking beast) the BMW 435i Luxury Audi A5 3.0T or Ford Mustang 5.0 either one you pick will have a compromise...

[dutchie01]

1 hour ago, arkviz said:

Thank You Luigi, now i see i have nothing installed. in my car.

 

Let us know how you get on please?

[Shahpor]

It seems you have made the club newsletter Linas

 

A bit cheeky of whoever decided to include it though.

[Steve]

Not sure what you mean cheeky? Interesting topic shared. Sure Linas would be happy. :D

[Shahpor]

Sorry, I don't mean not to include it, but it is just that the wording suggests it is news, not a query.  Linas really should have put a question mark at the end of the title.

I agree he should be quite chuffed though.

[rayaans]

By the way, the current word is that the GS/ES which is coming in the next few months is going to be a 4 door coupe! 

[Linas.P]

On 10/24/2017 at 4:06 PM, Shahpor said:

Sorry, I don't mean not to include it, but it is just that the wording suggests it is news, not a query.  Linas really should have put a question mark at the end of the title.

I agree he should be quite chuffed though.

Indeed - the topic meant to be a question, not a statement... but I kind of rushed it. I guess that can be treated as feedback to the Lexus as well - if customer struggles to find a car on their page, they might need to think of how to make it more visible ... especially GS450h.

P.S. adding question make to the title would really help 

[Ala Larj]

On 24/10/2017 at 12:13 PM, Zotto said:

Start from here: https://www.lexus-tech.eu/default.aspx

then, after registration (for free), go to "owner" section - ECU updates certificates , input VIN of your GS and you will see if some update has been made or not.

Searching in whole site you can verify if there are updates to do for your car: remind that update is NOT a recall, being a recall strongly suggested, while a simple update is often only made if owner finds some anomaly (indicated in corresponding TSB) and he asks to be it done.

Here my certificate indicating fw update:

img002.pdf

Hi Luigi,

Have checked my car and get the message "Factory Standard. No updates have been applied". Have had a look around the site but can't see anywhere where I can see if there are any updates for mine. Can you head me in the right direction?

Cheers,
Alan

[Zotto]

If you give a look to my certificate in .pdf file you can see the old and new one calibration data; to verify the only way is to connect obd using techstream and reading the calibration data number for engine ecu: if you read "old" cal data you can ask update to your dealer.

If you have not experienced vibrations accordingly TSB at about 2000 rpm and only in some circumstances (or you have not noticed  or also you don't care about them), no need to have update done.

[Ala Larj]

Thanks. Mine runs sweetly with no vibrations. 

[arkviz]

1 hour ago, Ala Larj said:

Thanks. Mine runs sweetly with no vibrations. 

I am really curious how sweetly does it run. My runs almost like diesel tractor.

[Ala Larj]

No vibrations at all. You can barely feel the engine kick in and most the time not at all. That's why I'm curious about your problem. It's not normal. I've driven other gs300h's as courtesy cars and they were fine too. You really must get the dealer to sort it as it's still under warranty. If the dealer won't help contact Lexus HQ and make a complaint.