Lexus UK dropping GS450h

[Linas.P]

It seems UK Lexus page was updated recently and now looks more similar to the Lexus.com. If you have not visited it for a while I invite you to take a look.

On the same point I was trying to look for Lexus GS450h "configurator" and it seems such model is not available to select, the only thing there is awful awful GS300h. Does it means there are no 450h anymore or I just cannot find where I can find this model? I was trying to find such topic as I would expect this to be long leaked and well discussed if it would be the case, but no.. I could only find somebody thinking of LPG coveting GS450h (why on earth...)

So is GS450h still a thing? I cannot find any announcement anywhere about this either. That would be very big surprise to me and a bit unexpected, because 450h in my opinion was the only model worth  considering from whole line-up and I have frequently complained about RC not having this powertrain. 300h is underpowered even in much lighter IS, I have not tried GS300h but it must be extremely annoying machine ... maybe only suitable if you are executive cab driver.

________

Update

________

After quite long search I actually found the way to configure GS450h, it is not available on main GS page as an option, nor as an option in "configurator", however if you go into GS>Price and Specification> Lexus GS450h> Explore GS450h Range in detail > configure your GS >... it takes you directly in GS configuration screen. I guess there were no reason to worry about it - they just changed the page and have not fully configured it tho show all the models..... or they phasing out GS450h, as from first glance it is not an option unless you spend 10 minutes looking for it.

[paulGS250]

Go Lexus.co.uk

Select Cars

Select GS

Select Prices and Specifications

2nd car a 450h

 

https://www.lexus.co.uk/car-models/gs/prices-and-specifications/

 

Confused?

 

[Britprius]

Linas.

It was probably my post you saw about converting to LPG. Answering your question the reason for conversion would be to put fuel costs well and truly in Prius territory The equivalent of 65/70 mpg in cost terms. That with no noticeable loss in performance seems a reasonable aim. Even when towing my caravan "yes I tow a caravan with the 450H" I would be getting the equivalent of 50 mpg.

John.

[Ala Larj]

1 hour ago, Linas.P said:

 

On the same point I was trying to look for Lexus GS450h "configurator" and it seems such model is not available to select, the only thing there is awful awful GS300h.

What is so awful about the GS300h?

[stevet]

1 hour ago, Linas.P said:

 

. 300h is underpowered even in much lighter IS, I have not tried GS300h but it must be extremely annoying machine ... maybe only suitable if you are executive cab driver.

 

There isn't much difference in weight between an IS and GS as they are based on the same chassis.

[Ala Larj]

 "I have not tried GS300h but it must be extremely annoying machine "

It does amaze me when someone can say something is awful without even trying it!

I find the GS300h more than adequately powered, especially in S and S+ modes. I thought I'd miss the mid range torque of my previous IS220d but not at all. More than enough power for overtaking and pulling away from tailgaters. 

[Linas.P]

I am not surprised with reaction, sadly I cannot ignore the existence of 300h or for that matter like it. Loosing GS450h from the range in my opinion would be a major problem. Equally, in my opinion (after trying) IS300h and RC300h are underpowered and I found them painful to drive and event to be inside. 300h combination produces same power/torque in all models, but IS is the lightest (1670kg), whilst GS is the heaviest (1830kg), which means it the worst in this aspect. Stating that GS is not "that much heavier" than IS is just wrong, because it is ~160kg heavier (and that is a lot, almost 3 extra adults in your car). GS is the heaviest car to have 300h configuration with RC being second biggest offender (1775kg), followed by NX (1755kg). This clearly impacts performance of the car (IS 8.4s vs. GS 9.2s 0-60).

I accept that not everyone are the same, hence car manufacturers have different engine options for the same model. Sadly, as is the case with RC -  Lexus gives no engine option and that is what I find particular pain point about the brand as a whole. If they would drop GS450h I would not be able to comprehend what is their goal... except of alienating customers like me.

In terms of how big issue it is...

• for RC it is massive issue - slow sports coupe doesn't sound particularly appealing,
• for IS it is not as much of an issue, first of all because it is the lightest of the bunch and fastest, secondly because as replacement for IS220d it can be considered suitable, slow sports saloon is not great and lack of IS250 replacement is apparent and painful, but it definitely has it's places as entry model to the range,
• for NX that is not an issue at all, because it is city SUV for school runs so it's sportiness is relatively ok...
• for GS... I don't know. I guess if GS450h exists it would be fine - you choose what suits you (something you cannot do with RC), but if GS450h does not exists that seems like major problem for me... 

My personal feelings about 300h (and your hurt feelings) aside... does anyone have anything to add regarding 450h and why do you think it is hidden away on Lexus website?

P.S. I really don't want to insult anyone, but just because car is "~OK" for you it doesn't means it is "~OK" for everyone and equally that they have no right to have different opinion about it. I am trying to be factual, however all depends on perspective and it is clear that we all have different ones.

[Guest]

It's like they took away the exterior dullness and hid it in the engine bay.

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[Chris111]

21 minutes ago, Linas.P said:

why do you think it is hidden away on Lexus website?

I don't think it's hidden away. As Paul says above:-

5 hours ago, paulGS250 said:

Go Lexus.co.uk

Select Cars

Select GS

Select Prices and Specifications

2nd car a 450h

You might think it's hidden away because every other model on the website (with the exception of the LC) only has one engine choice, so, for example, if you click on the IS link, as there is only the 300h engine option, there is no choice to make. Same for the CT, NX and RX. The RC 300h and RCF are listed separately but if you click on the link for the LC you are asked, in exactly the same way as on the GS link, to pick your engine choice.

[AmbroseJohn]

5 hours ago, Ala Larj said:

 

I find the GS300h more than adequately powered, especially in S and S+ modes. I thought I'd miss the mid range torque of my previous IS220d but not at all. More than enough power for overtaking and pulling away from tailgaters. 

The GS300h may compare favourably with a IS220d but it's no comparison with the GS450h

[stevet]

I am not surprised with reaction, sadly I cannot ignore the existence of 300h or for that matter like it. Loosing GS450h from the range in my opinion would be a major problem. Equally, in my opinion (after trying) IS300h and RC300h are underpowered and I found them painful to drive and event to be inside. 300h combination produces same power/torque in all models, but IS is the lightest (1670kg), whilst GS is the heaviest (1830kg), which means it the worst in this aspect. Stating that GS is not "that much heavier" than IS is just wrong, because it is ~160kg heavier (and that is a lot, almost 3 extra adults in your car). GS is the heaviest car to have 300h configuration with RC being second biggest offender (1775kg), followed by NX (1755kg). This clearly impacts performance of the car (IS 8.4s vs. GS 9.2s 0-60).
I accept that not everyone are the same, hence car manufacturers have different engine options for the same model. Sadly, as is the case with RC -  Lexus gives no engine option and that is what I find particular pain point about the brand as a whole. If they would drop GS450h I would not be able to comprehend what is their goal... except of alienating customers like me.
In terms of how big issue it is...

• for RC it is massive issue - slow sports coupe doesn't sound particularly appealing,
• for IS it is not as much of an issue, first of all because it is the lightest of the bunch and fastest, secondly because as replacement for IS220d it can be considered suitable, slow sports saloon is not great and lack of IS250 replacement is apparent and painful, but it definitely has it's places as entry model to the range,
• for NX that is not an issue at all, because it is city SUV for school runs so it's sportiness is relatively ok...
• for GS... I don't know. I guess if GS450h exists it would be fine - you choose what suits you (something you cannot do with RC), but if GS450h does not exists that seems like major problem for me... 

My personal feelings about 300h (and your hurt feelings) aside... does anyone have anything to add regarding 450h and why do you think it is hidden away on Lexus website?
P.S. I really don't want to insult anyone, but just because car is "~OK" for you it doesn't means it is "~OK" for everyone and equally that they have no right to have different opinion about it. I am trying to be factual, however all depends on perspective and it is clear that we all have different ones.

Sorry, I had the GS300h weighing in at 1730kg


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[Zotto]

Surreal topic: what is the sense to say that a BMW 520d  is not like a M550d and the last one is far better? 

I had a GS450h and I traded in for a GS300h, obviously 450h was faster, but for daily use GS300h is more than adeguate and less thirsty of gasoline. (and taxes here where I live).

May be my  next Lexus will be faster, if i will decide to waste more my money.

About GS 300h; a nice review of same version I have:

http://carproductstested.com/cars/2014-lexus-gs-300h-premier-review/

 

 

 

[rayaans]

Maybe its just me but Ive got an awful sense of deja vu about this thread

Lets lock it before it gets out of hand again.

[Ala Larj]

I agree. Personal tastes are just that, personal!

My only criticism was the fact that someone could make a judgement on a vehicle that they admitted that they'd never driven. That to me is bizarre!

[Shahpor]

@rayaans I agree that I also have a sense of foreboding when it comes to this subject, but locking a thread before there is reason to is a tad excessive.  Perhaps people will play nice this time?

@Ala Larj Well, seeing as Linas's objection is based on the fact that the GS shares the engine with the IS300h, I am curious to know if you have tried a IS300h, and if so, what are your thoughts on the similarities/differences between the two?  I have driven quite a few IS300h now, but I have never been lucky enough to try a GS.

[Ten Ninety]

11 hours ago, rayaans said:

Maybe its just me but Ive got an awful sense of deja vu about this thread

Lets lock it before it gets out of hand again.

I am a relative newcomer to these parts, but I have found this particular subforum to be refreshingly-free of posturing and insults. I would like to think that most of us would be able to look past the OP's somewhat provocative choice of words and respond to the issues raised rather than descending into a slanging match. However, you have been here much longer than I have, so perhaps you know better!

For what it's worth, I would not be surprised if Lexus did get rid of the 450h. It certainly fulfils a purpose (being quite quick, quite economical, understated and well-built) but I'm not sure if there's much of a market left for that any more. It does seem like people either want ridiculous horsepower and bragging-rights speed (where even the GS-F fails to compete), practicality or posing potential (where the saloon bodystyle fails to compete on either count) or simply fuel efficiency (where 40mpg just doesn't cut it any more). Add in the fact that the the GS-F is such a depreciation disaster that a lightly-used one can be had for the same money as a 450h, and the case for the 450h seems to weaken further. To me, Lexus's RC strategy actually makes more sense - offer an economical but sporty-looking version and a fast-but-thirsty version, with no need for anything in between. 

I would also add, in response to the OP's comments about the 300h being 'awful' and 'annoying' that for anyone with a serious interest in performance motoring, it might well indeed be both of those things. Whilst the power is just about adequate for overtaking, it could never be described as a quick car. I can imagine it would be very frustrating for someone who enjoys 'spirited' driving as it's a heavy old lump that's just not set up for that kind of thing. Whilst it can go round corners at a decent lick, it makes it clear to all concerned that it's not really enjoying the experience!

The 300h is also not even all that great at being a quiet wafter. The road noise is not as well-suppressed as one might expect and the ride is not as relaxing as it really should be. However, it is peerlessly brilliant in three specific areas: a) Delivering strong fuel economy for a car of its size without being a stinking diesel, b) offering a well-built and classy interior and c) not being German. That was enough to seal the deal for me.

 

[Guest]

The NHS are soon opening special wards for people offended or damaged by an opinion expressed online. Serious religious cases take priority with car brand fans just behind. ;)



A simple rule is easiest.

Criticise or ridicule the idea; never the individual expressing it.



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[royoftherovers]

23 hours ago, paulGS250 said:

Go Lexus.co.uk

Select Cars

Select GS

Select Prices and Specifications

2nd car a 450h

 

https://www.lexus.co.uk/car-models/gs/prices-and-specifications/

 

Confused?

 

Well said Sir.

Had Linas put a ? after his title line, this thread might have taken a different course ?

[Ala Larj]

9 hours ago, Shahpor said:

@rayaans I agree that I also have a sense of foreboding when it comes to this subject, but locking a thread before there is reason to is a tad excessive.  Perhaps people will play nice this time?

@Ala Larj Well, seeing as Linas's objection is based on the fact that the GS shares the engine with the IS300h, I am curious to know if you have tried a IS300h, and if so, what are your thoughts on the similarities/differences between the two?  I have driven quite a few IS300h now, but I have never been lucky enough to try a GS.

I've driven a few IS300h's as courtesy cars. With regards to performance in every day use it feels no different than the GS. 0 to 60 times are irrelevant in my mind unless you plan on maxing it every time you pull away. Where I live you'd probably end up rearing someone! The GS is generally more refined which suits me fine. 

[rayaans]

15 hours ago, Shahpor said:

@rayaans I agree that I also have a sense of foreboding when it comes to this subject, but locking a thread before there is reason to is a tad excessive.  Perhaps people will play nice this time?

@Ala Larj Well, seeing as Linas's objection is based on the fact that the GS shares the engine with the IS300h, I am curious to know if you have tried a IS300h, and if so, what are your thoughts on the similarities/differences between the two?  I have driven quite a few IS300h now, but I have never been lucky enough to try a GS.

It was tongue in cheek..... :D

But yes, I wouldn't get rid of the GS450h, its the first hybrid saloon from Lexus, it'd be rude to get rid of it.

[rayaans]

10 hours ago, Ten Ninety said:

I am a relative newcomer to these parts, but I have found this particular subforum to be refreshingly-free of posturing and insults. I would like to think that most of us would be able to look past the OP's somewhat provocative choice of words and respond to the issues raised rather than descending into a slanging match. However, you have been here much longer than I have, so perhaps you know better!

For what it's worth, I would not be surprised if Lexus did get rid of the 450h. It certainly fulfils a purpose (being quite quick, quite economical, understated and well-built) but I'm not sure if there's much of a market left for that any more. It does seem like people either want ridiculous horsepower and bragging-rights speed (where even the GS-F fails to compete), practicality or posing potential (where the saloon bodystyle fails to compete on either count) or simply fuel efficiency (where 40mpg just doesn't cut it any more). Add in the fact that the the GS-F is such a depreciation disaster that a lightly-used one can be had for the same money as a 450h, and the case for the 450h seems to weaken further. To me, Lexus's RC strategy actually makes more sense - offer an economical but sporty-looking version and a fast-but-thirsty version, with no need for anything in between. 

I would also add, in response to the OP's comments about the 300h being 'awful' and 'annoying' that for anyone with a serious interest in performance motoring, it might well indeed be both of those things. Whilst the power is just about adequate for overtaking, it could never be described as a quick car. I can imagine it would be very frustrating for someone who enjoys 'spirited' driving as it's a heavy old lump that's just not set up for that kind of thing. Whilst it can go round corners at a decent lick, it makes it clear to all concerned that it's not really enjoying the experience!

The 300h is also not even all that great at being a quiet wafter. The road noise is not as well-suppressed as one might expect and the ride is not as relaxing as it really should be. However, it is peerlessly brilliant in three specific areas: a) Delivering strong fuel economy for a car of its size without being a stinking diesel, b) offering a well-built and classy interior and c) not being German. That was enough to seal the deal for me.

 

Depends on how you define quick. Anything under 6s is quick in my book and mid range acceleration of the GS450h would still decimate most cars on the road today. 

And if opting for the F-Sport version, can go around corners as quick as any other M-Sport or AMG-Lite saloon from Germany with its 4 wheel steering.

Ask me how I know - I've done it.

[Shahpor]

3 hours ago, rayaans said:

It was tongue in cheek..... :D

But yes, I wouldn't get rid of the GS450h, its the first hybrid saloon from Lexus, it'd be rude to get rid of it.

Then where was the ? 

I agree in the hope that nothing happens to the 450h.  It does seem like an ideal configuration; rapid and relatively frugal.

[marrat]

The GS450H is one of the rare Lexus and non-German cars getting rave reviews all over the globe  Would be weird to get rid of it, even though it's understandable since it isn't popular. Easiest way to fix it would be to lower the price by a couple thousand.

As for the sheer raw power, it isn't just a zero to sixty thing. The smoothness of the ride in a 450h cannot be compared to an IS/GS300h IMO. The motor doesn't even need to strain itself and that makes the ride, both audibly and the feeling, better. There's also the fact that if such a heavy car with such acceleration can get 37 mpg, it's damn impressive. It's sad to see how unpopular it is really.

[arkviz]

As a GS300h owner I am a lot disappointed after 1,5  year of daily driving. Dashboard rattles and squeaks, engine is trashy and generates loud vibrations in almost all rpm range. Power is not an issue but, economy changed from 5.2 Liters/100km to 6.5. Maybe i have bad piece but the car is not what it was. From sweet whistling car i have now a tractor with jackhammer under the bonnet. 

[bobmc]

On 17/10/2017 at 4:52 PM, arkviz said:

As a GS300h owner I am a lot disappointed after 1,5  year of daily driving. Dashboard rattles and squeaks, engine is trashy and generates loud vibrations in almost all rpm range. Power is not an issue but, economy changed from 5.2 Liters/100km to 6.5. Maybe i have bad piece but the car is not what it was. From sweet whistling car i have now a tractor with jackhammer under the bonnet. 

Just guessing here as I've never owned/driven a hybrid but are you sure the hybrid Battery is performing properly? Might be the reason for the poor mpg and overworked engine?