Pub question

[is200 Newbie]

Have posted this in the IS section also as its relevant

 

Basically - whats best

Diesel or Petrol

I know the issues with Lexus diesel and to some extent the same issues with other manufacturers (DPF etc)

So a conversation ensued in a pub this evening regarding the best option, petrol or diesel. The question arose against a 2016 3.0 diesel X5 BMW and my 2007 petrol is 2.5 SE-L. Obviously the BMW (due to the age will win hands down) on performance only - interior in my opinion is still sub standard from the IS (even my old 2007 model)

BUT - I could not argue the point against the equivalent diesel version of a Lexus (as they don't make them anymore) so the conversation went along the lines of an equivalent 3.0 petrol car (not necessary a Lexus) vs. a 3.0 diesel X5 BMW.

So I am guessing along the lines of what would be the best option between the above (BMW X5 3.0) and the nearest Lexus model to a 3.0 model (Rx / Nx etc)

Would I be right in saying that after taking into account the weight ration between the BMW above and the IS 250 (mine) and all the other factors but basing the figures on an IS that was looked after and probably with a bit more BHP than stock. Would it be blasted out of the park in an 0 to 60 dash bearing in mind one is diesel and one is petrol.

What I am was trying to establish in the pub was that, for all the faults that diesel FUEL has (as I am sure the engines are ok in any car - the diesel is engineered to be too clean these days) is it better than petrol - would like to base this on basically Lexus vs BMW and I would think there would be a lot of different views on this,

My point would be keeping a diesel for many years doing short journeys (sub 4k) would not be a good idea, even when doing a good blast to keep the DPF clean - ok for petrol though.

 

So a 3.0 diesel BMW vs a 3.0 petrol Lexus - whats best ?????

[rayaans]

Petrol obviously. Faster in a straight line, cleaner, sounds better, can rev the guts out if it and no dpf to worry about.

Diesel is for lazy drivers. Those who don't understand the concept of clutch control and how not to stall

[is200 Newbie]

Good answer - I prefer the Lexus brand to the BMW anyway so it was not to sway my decision but to have an informed choice on which was best

Still ..... any conclusive proof that our Lexus 3.0 models are better then the equivalent BMW ones - Also would a 250 stand a chance against a 3.0 X5 - considering one is a diesel and one is a petrol (0-60), I am guessing the weight difference would come into play,  also one is virtually new "tech" and one is "old" tech driving 

[is200 Newbie]

 

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Basically - whats best

Diesel or Petrol

I know the issues with Lexus diesel and to some extent the same issues with other manufacturers (DPF etc)

So a conversation ensued in a pub this evening regarding the best option, petrol or diesel. The question arose against a 2016 3.0 diesel X5 BMW and my 2007 petrol is 2.5 SE-L. Obviously the BMW (due to the age will win hands down) on performance only - interior in my opinion is still sub standard from the IS (even my old 2007 model)

BUT - I could not argue the point against the equivalent diesel version of a Lexus (as they don't make them anymore) so the conversation went along the lines of an equivalent 3.0 petrol car (not necessary a Lexus) vs. a 3.0 diesel X5 BMW.

So I am guessing along the lines of what would be the best option between the above (BMW X5 3.0) and the nearest Lexus model to a 3.0 model (Rx / Nx etc)

Would I be right in saying that after taking into account the weight ration between the BMW above and the IS 250 (mine) and all the other factors but basing the figures on an IS that was looked after and probably with a bit more BHP than stock. Would it be blasted out of the park in an 0 to 60 dash bearing in mind one is diesel and one is petrol.

What I am was trying to establish in the pub was that, for all the faults that diesel FUEL has (as I am sure the engines are ok in any car - the diesel is engineered to be too clean these days) is it better than petrol - would like to base this on basically Lexus vs BMW and I would think there would be a lot of different views on this,

My point would be keeping a diesel for many years doing short journeys (sub 4k) would not be a good idea, even when doing a good blast to keep the DPF clean - ok for petrol though.

 

So a 3.0 diesel BMW vs a 3.0 petrol Lexus - whats best ?????

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[rayaans]

41 minutes ago, is200 Newbie said:

Good answer - I prefer the Lexus brand to the BMW anyway so it was not to sway my decision but to have an informed choice on which was best

Still ..... any conclusive proof that our Lexus 3.0 models are better then the equivalent BMW ones - Also would a 250 stand a chance against a 3.0 X5 - considering one is a diesel and one is a petrol (0-60), I am guessing the weight difference would come into play,  also one is virtually new "tech" and one is "old" tech driving 

The problem with the comparison is that BMW use turbos whereas Lexus are typically naturally aspirated. 

Having said that, the latest 3.5l engines from Lexus are pretty impressive for NA units, 311hp in 2018 GS350. The 3.5l Twin Turbo in the LS500 is a force to be reckoned with - 414hp and 600NM of torque, more torque than the BMW M4 but 10 less hp. I'm sure lexus have tuned it conservatively for reliability too 

Drop that engine into an IS with a few tweaks and youll have an ISF

[johnatg]

BMW X5 3.0D 0-60 - 6.8 seconds (there are faster and slower versions) (Diesels have massive torque which gives you low down acceleration)

Lexus IS (2.5) - 0-60  7.8 seconds (petrol versions - there are slight variations over model years and trims - due to weight and a particular year's emissions standards?

Top speeds are much the same - X5 143mph, IS 144mph

So a 3.0 X5 is slightly faster than an IS but not by much and I suspect that in a straight drag race it would be down to the drivers. Not much difference in the real world.

Oh - and I don't know about diesels not stalling - I had a rental BMW 116D in Sicily last week - damn thing was completely gutless and it would stall if you let the revs drop below about 1500. At least the stop/start system would restart it when you dropped the clutch!

[Spacewagon52]

2 hours ago, johnatg said:

 

Oh - and I don't know about diesels not stalling - I had a rental BMW 116D in Sicily last week - damn thing was completely gutless and it would stall if you let the revs drop below about 1500. At least the stop/start system would restart it when you dropped the clutch!

That is interesting, I still stall my diesel Mitsubishi Grandis on occasions. It is a very good car overall - tows my caravan really well - 7 seats - economical approx 40 mpg - 28mpg towing. BUT .............. I have never really enjoy driving it. I would often take my old petrol Mitsubishi Space Wagon out rather than the Grandis. Had a diesel Octavia, which was a good drive, but I have never really taken to this car. Now I have the RX300, I can see it being used even less. The RX is such a lovely car to drive, more power than I expected and it handles really well for such a big 4x4. No regrets - so far - buying it.

[Linas.P]

This comparison is all apples and oranges... Comparing SUV with saloon, Turbo charged diesel with NA petrol etc.

First of all Lexus doesn't have any 3.0L Petrol in UK. 300h as we all know is "dumb-down" version of 2.5L, that is for good reason by the way - it runs on Atkinson cycle to be most efficient, but in terms of power it is not powerful engine for displacement. Take for example same IS250 2.5L v6 - 204hp, IS300h 2.5L I4 only 177hp (an that is 10 years never engine).

So first of all we need to look either at BMW 3 series vs. Lexus IS or BMW X5 vs. Lexus RX... Now in UK IS has no petrol engine at all... the only the "R.I.P" IS200t which by no way compatible with 330d, because BMW diesel is much more powerful, more fuel efficient etc. Better comparison would be between say BMW 430d and Infinity Q60 3.0T.. then infinity would win hands down in terms of performance and driving pleasure (all subjective), whereas diesel would still win hands down in fuel efficiency. Especially, noticeable if you doing euro trips where speeds are above 90MPH... diesels makes much more sense there - above say 90MPH petrol becomes especially thirsty where diesels can still pull 30MPG and more, I know ... not so much of issue in UK.

As well it depends on application 3.0d in X6 is very good engine, because for SUV torquier diesels is better than say similar displacement petrol and it is much more fuel efficient in such application.

This is all personal choice - if somebody would ask me what I prefer and I can only have one choice it would always be NA petrol, something like 5.0L V8 in IS-F... But if can have more ... than for track car 3.0T, for SUV 3-4L TD, for long trips 3L TD (something like 5 series), for city SUV Hybrid like 450h though why would you drive SUV in city... dumb choice, but better to drive PHEV like BMW 330e.