Keyless Thefts

[Muddywheels]

Coming from LR ownership I am painfully aware of the problem with keyless thefts and have used fob gaurds and disklocks to protect my vehicles in recent years so I am very impressed to read in the handbook you can disable this when leaving the vehicle via the fob and reactivate when you return - Brilliant

[Pablo43]

What is this sorcery ? 

[Muddywheels]

Are you asking how they're stolen or how to disable the key 

[Pablo43]

How to disable the key ?

[Muddywheels]

Got you now

Page 157 in my handbook -

Quote

Electronic Key Battery-Saving Function
When battery-saving mode is set, battery depletion is minimized by stopping the electronic
key from receiving radio waves.

Press unlock button on fob twice while pressing and holding
lock button. Confirm that the electronic key indicator
flashes 4 times.

While the battery-saving mode is set, the smart
entry & start system cannot be used. To cancel
the function, press any of the electronic key buttons.

This should secure against relay attack method used to steal keyless vehicles

[NemesisUK]

I'm not sure it does. This is a Battery saving function. It stops the key fob receiving radio signals, so one must presume the car is still transmitting those radio signals. It's those signals that the thieves intercept 

[Muddywheels]

The thieves intercept the signal from the fob by using a device to boost the signal to the vehicle and drive away 

I've just tested it and you can't open the doors using keyless after disabling the fob 

People I know have lost brand new Range Rovers worth over £100k because of keyless attacks 

[NemesisUK]

8 minutes ago, Muddywheels said:

I've just tested it and you can't open the doors using keyless after disabling the fob 

Exactly as it states in the handbook.

What it doesn't say in the handbook is that the fob transmits continuously, only that it won't receive when disabled. I'm guessing the reception of a signal stimulates a response which is what the thieves then intercept? The fob has to be within approx 2m of the car for the system to function?

[Muddywheels]

http://www.fleetnews.co.uk/news/car-industry-news/2017/08/10/thieves-target-keyless-entry-cars-with-relay-attack

To protect against this you can place keys in tins at home or a Faraday pouch available on amazon 

http://www.foxnews.com/tech/2015/10/24/why-should-wrap-your-keys-in-aluminum-foil.html

Lexus is the first car I've owned where disabling key is option to protect against this 

[NemesisUK]

A friend on the MB forum had his AMG stolen by thieves smashing in his front door and threatening him and his wife to hand over the keys.

If they can steal the car from the driveway using a laptop and intercepting the keyless signal, without entering the house, I know which I prefer ... It's only a car

[Muddywheels]

I get what you are saying Peter - it is an argument I've heard before

Most thieves are after a quick easy job and nothing is easier than taking a keyless luxury car using a £80 device bought on eBay 

The type that resort to violence are usually stealing high value vehicles to order and will take it whatever you do 

Disabling my key is easier than fitting a disklok or using a fob guard so I'm happy Lexus came up with something LR are still working on after 7+ years

[rayaans]

Wouldn't worry about it personally. 

Plenty of S/RS Audi's, M BMWs and AMG Mercs around to take.

The only one that seems to be nicked more often in the Lexus range is the RX.

[Guest]

I had seen I can disable it via the cars settings but it seemed a pain to then use the normal key. Will try the key instructions, especially as have 3 keys.

 

It's something manufacturers should be on top of. My brother-in-laws friend Lost his week old rs3 this way recently.

 

Imagine in the showroom, 'these are all the security features sir, Alarm immobiliser tilt sensors etc but do be aware if some one has a small gadget from the Internet there is no point locking it.

 

Sent from my STV100-4 using Tapatalk

 

 

[Muddywheels]

Again good points - since ditching the RR Sports which were the most stolen vehicles according to the press I have worried less 

I couldn't see anyone queuing up to steal the Mitsubishi Outlander PHEV 

I have disabled the spare at home and will do it to the main key when I remember because it's easy but not going to lose sleep over it - it's just a nice simple feature that deserves a pat on the back 

The RC got me worrying again but agree it's not in the same league to them - just to me 

[Muddywheels]

Oh and keyless is still more secure than using buttons on fob from my research and forum discussions 

The only thing more secure is going back to a good old fashioned key but that will never happen now

[Rabbers]

Although the battery-saving feature was also present in the key of the IS300h I previously had, and is simple enough to operate, 

I have never trained myself to use it - not that I see much purpose for it beyond stopping the doors constantly locking and unlocking

and the mirrors folding and unfolding (yes, I know this function can be switched off separately) when I am washing the car, especially

with a jetwash.   Instead, I pop the key into a highly effective signals-blocking pouch I bought online for a price that was lower than

the postage, and which I keep in the car for no other purpose.

 

Like many other owners, I cling to the belief that professional thieves are less likely to target a Lexus in preference to other more

common marques because of the small sell-on potential and the better chance of it being quickly spotted by the police.  

Unfortunately, this is probably not true in the case of joyriders, especially "serial" ones for whom the prospect of stealing and

riding in a comparatively rare car might be the main attraction.   Not that I would think many of them would know how to clone

an electronic key.

 

[dutchie01]

7 hours ago, Rabbers said:

Although the battery-saving feature was also present in the key of the IS300h I previously had, and is simple enough to operate, 

I have never trained myself to use it - not that I see much purpose for it beyond stopping the doors constantly locking and unlocking

and the mirrors folding and unfolding (yes, I know this function can be switched off separately) when I am washing the car, especially

with a jetwash.   Instead, I pop the key into a highly effective signals-blocking pouch I bought online for a price that was lower than

the postage, and which I keep in the car for no other purpose.

 

Like many other owners, I cling to the belief that professional thieves are less likely to target a Lexus in preference to other more

common marques because of the small sell-on potential and the better chance of it being quickly spotted by the police.  

Unfortunately, this is probably not true in the case of joyriders, especially "serial" ones for whom the prospect of stealing and

riding in a comparatively rare car might be the main attraction.   Not that I would think many of them would know how to clone

an electronic key.

 

Absolutely spot on rabbers. Thieves steal to sell on and make money that way. Supply and demand. If there is lots of demand for a certain make/model that is what they will go for. In Holland the top of the range germans and Range Rovers are in a container on a boat to Nigeria/Ghana/Kenia nowadays no longer to Eastern Europe. Sometimes on order.

I personally came back to Lexus after 2 years in a BMW 3 Touring. They did not steal the car ( unfortunately ) but just emptied it totally 3 times in a row with intervals of 4 months. All gone, stearingwheel aircon, satnav, controller etc. 4K damage each time ( insured). I - no pressure from my wife..- decided it had to go. My logic was to go back to Lexus and my alibi (.) was that there are so few around there is no market for spareparts so they will leave it alone. Happily driving along since 2 yrs in my IS300H Fsport. Guess what my next car will be...   

 

 

 

 

[rich1068]

Does anyone recall that documentary a few years ago about cars stolen in the UK and shipped abroad, specifically Nigeria? They had a helicopter flying over Lagos with a Tracker receiver and the thing was going nuts as they followed rush hour traffic.

4 hours ago, dutchie01 said:

I personally came back to Lexus after 2 years in a BMW 3 Touring. They did not steal the car ( unfortunately ) but just emptied it totally 3 times in a row with intervals of 4 months. All gone, stearingwheel aircon, satnav, controller etc. 4K damage each time ( insured). I - no pressure from my wife..- decided it had to go. My logic was to go back to Lexus and my alibi (.) was that there are so few around there is no market for spareparts so they will leave it alone. Happily driving along since 2 yrs in my IS300H Fsport. Guess what my next car will be...   

I had the air bag stolen out of my F30, smashed window, no alarm, nothing.

[dutchie01]

Same with me 3 times same operation. Reardoor smallest window smashed. I asked the dealer about this they told me that corner is not guarded by the alarmsystem....

They then open the door from the inside without the alarm going off. simple as that  Entire operation takes no more than 3-4 minutes.           

[Muddywheels]

Sorry to read above posts about thefts

Richard & Bernard - were your vehicles double locked - I thought this stopped doors opening from inside through broken windows?

[dutchie01]

Hi Paul, not sure what double locked is, just used the remote and locked the car. It was a 2014 BMW 3 series. When the car was at the dealers for repair i saw various other cars with a smashed tiny rear window. Glad its gone now. Stripping cars is now more popular than stealing. The VAG products are undisputed number 1 here. 

[Muddywheels]

Ah - sorry I thought you meant the Lexus - I'm not very knowledgable on Beemers but I do know it's a well known design flaw and scumbags can access obd this way and disable alarm/programme key, etc 

Double locking is usually two presses of the fob lock button or keyless sensor on door to deadlock doors - ie prevents ability to open vehicle by breaking windows and unlocking - although some manufacturers it's 1 press to confuse matters

[Rabbers]

11 hours ago, rich1068 said:

Does anyone recall that documentary a few years ago about cars stolen in the UK and shipped abroad, specifically Nigeria?.....

Interesting, as dutchie01 also points out, about Nigeria being a main market for cars stolen in the UK, just as it is said to be for ones

stolen in Continental Europe.   The latter, being LHD, would be more logical choices for local customers but I guess that in practice

little has changed in the more than thirty years since I was last in Lagos and when drivers did not seem over-fussed about keeping

to one side of the road or the other.   And the same went for Kinshasa and Luanda in, respectively, Zaire (as it then was) and Angola,

which are said to be other favoured destinations for stolen cars and are probably also equally happy with RHD and LHD.

 

[rayaans]

My brother in law had his B7 Audi RS4's seats stolen (apparently the bucket seats are big money). Since then, he's also had his Porsche Macan S, Audi Q7 and 911 taken in the first year of ownership - never recovered.

Obviously insurance company bought a new car each time as it was within the 1st year but hell, VAG seems to go like hotcakes, especially when parked outside.