LPG on LS430 - just done.

rz1c13 · September 1, 2017

Hi all,

Just converted my 430 to use LPG fuel. Runs beautifully, on BRC plug&drive hardware/software. Seamless and automatic switchover from petrol->LPG. Done in Poland in a Lexus approved installer, 2yrs warranty. Can share pics and experience further. Happy to answer any questions.

rz1c13 · September 1, 2017

Sorry, by mistake I sent it to GS forum, Can an admin move it over to the LS 430 section please? Or, shall I copy this content there myself?

Bluesman · September 1, 2017

Have moved. Carry on happily with LPG.

dendonc · September 1, 2017

4 hours ago, rz1c13 said:

Done in Poland in a Lexus approved installer, 2yrs warranty.

Thats must be profess who have a branch at Hengoed, Glam, they are Polish based installers, hope it all goes well.

rz1c13 · September 1, 2017

No, I did it in Warsaw, Energy Gaz Polska, or Energy Gas Poland. They specialise in challenging projects, and have been auhtorised by many dealers, including Toyota/Lexus. They've done dozens of LS 430s, and showed me some of their clients have covered 700k+ km on LPG fitted LS430s and still running no problems at all. So, I had to look no further. I wanted an experienced garage and engineers that know this particular V8 (3UZ), and they know what they are doing, so I end up with the best gas conversion kit possible for this car and get the best work done, the price did not matter.

By the way I've seen some very impressive LPG conversion projects made by them: Audi RS6 V8 4.2 bi-turbo 511 bhp, Subaru WRX, and lately Ddodge RAM SRT10 with Viper V10 8.3L 517 bhp

rz1c13 · September 1, 2017

Those who know the subject will recognise some parts. The LPG ECU hidden away under one of the covers on the RHS.

Bluesman · September 1, 2017

Nice neat looking install. Enjoy.

Beejay55 · March 10, 2018

I also run my LS430 on LPG. The work was carried out for the previous owner by a company in South Wales. I quickly noticed that when the LPG tank was down to about 50%, and with brisk acceleration, the system would switch over to petrol - despite there still being plenty of LPG in the tank.

At a LPG service the mechanic told me that the problem was that the LPG tank had been fitted back to front. The feeder pipe was at the front of the tank, ie facing the engine. With 50% LPG in the tank, and brisk acceleration, the LPG was being thrown to the back of the tank (ie towards the rear of the car - away from the feeder pipe), the pressure to the forward facing feeder pipe would drop, and the ECU switch over to petrol.

I have decided to live with this, as it is a minor inconvenience.

I note that you have the LPG filler under the filler cap. I believe that it is now illegal to fit it this way in the UK.

sorcerer · March 10, 2018

3 hours ago, Beejay55 said:

I note that you have the LPG filler under the filler cap. I believe that it is now illegal to fit it this way in the UK.

I'm not sure about 'legality' but it's certainly not best practice. When we go abroad we have to use adapters because their pump nozzles are different to ours and vice versa. However, adapters are not supposed to be used on a UK-based car filling up at UK pumps.

Not only that, it has been known for the adapters that Robert will need to use to snap off because some pumps have their hoses 'tethered' to them by a wire rope that's under tension and can exert quite a force on the adapter. Looks to be a nice, neat installation and compares with another LS430 that I've seen (pic below) but I would have had the filler point on a bracket mounted centrally under the rear bumper so that it's easy to fill from either side.

rz1c13 · March 10, 2018

4 hours ago, sorcerer said:

I'm not sure about 'legality' but it's certainly not best practice. When we go abroad we have to use adapters because their pump nozzles are different to ours and vice versa. However, adapters are not supposed to be used on a UK-based car filling up at UK pumps.

As far as I've seen stickers on LPG pumps in the UK they say adapters "not recommended", but definitely nothing like "illegal".

I have 3 adapters, including my Polish domestic - btw it is natively Italian stadard. This covers me the whole EU, and who knows maybe Russia or other countries. The mount inside the flap is absolutely siff and sturdy and well secured. Honestly, I have never had a problem or worry with that. Also I remember when I was picking up the car, I have mentioned to the techs that It worries me a little all the weight of the LPG nozzle + the mighty cable, and it might just snap the adapter or the mounting from the socket. I was assured that this is not going to be the case, and if I have a slightest problem they will fix it for free. And they were right, no problems at all, not a slightest movement, or any visible stress on the material.

I have absolutely no worries using it, nothing bends, deforms etc, good access from any angle.

As far as the "legality" of the fuel flap goes - I'm a bit astonished, because it is all legal in Germany, Poland, and other countries I've visited. Anyway I'm not bothered, as I bought the car for exporting it to Poland, I'm no longer working or living permanently in the UK.

jonthetourist · March 11, 2018

On 9/1/2017 at 10:30 PM, rz1c13 said:

No, I did it in Warsaw, Energy Gaz Polska, or Energy Gas Poland. They specialise in challenging projects, and have been auhtorised by many dealers, including Toyota/Lexus. They've done dozens of LS 430s, and showed me some of their clients have covered 700k+ km on LPG fitted LS430s and still running no problems at all. So, I had to look no further. I wanted an experienced garage and engineers that know this particular V8 (3UZ), and they know what they are doing, so I end up with the best gas conversion kit possible for this car and get the best work done, the price did not matter.

Hi Robert. These guys sound good. How is the price, please? Is it worth driving to Poland for? (I used to work with a Polish girl who regularly declared how glorious it is)

Jon

sorcerer · March 11, 2018

1 hour ago, jonthetourist said:

Hi Robert. These guys sound good. How is the price, please? Is it worth driving to Poland for? (I used to work with a Polish girl who regularly declared how glorious it is)

Jon

Every summer for the last 20-odd years, my wife and I have driven to, and toured around, Poland/Czech Republic/Slovakia for our holidays and it is indeed a beautiful country with some fantastic scenery and amazing architecture and history, and the people are very warm and friendly too.

Definitely highly recommended to visit, although not necessarily for your LPG conversion. If you wanted to incorporate the conversion time into a holiday there then yes, fair enough, go for it, but no need to go there just for that - the pictures I posted are of a conversion done here in the UK. If you want more details, feel free to email me on jhewitt1958@gmail.com and I'll be happy to help.

dendonc · March 11, 2018

6 hours ago, jonthetourist said:

Is it worth driving to Poland for?

Bear in mind, if you go much before spring, it is mandatory to use winter rated tyres and normal to carry snow chains, snow chains mandatory in France, you can end up with a car impounded if you break those winter tyre laws + fine, check the rac site to get more specific winter tyre laws for euro countries.

rz1c13 · March 12, 2018

On 11/03/2018 at 3:56 PM, dendonc said:

Bear in mind, if you go much before spring, it is mandatory to use winter rated tyres and normal to carry snow chains, snow chains mandatory in France

Something to clarify.

As far as i know the Polish law, as of today, there is still no legislation forcing you to use winter tyres, BUT... as soon as we have the first snow fall I don't know anyone sane who keeps their summer tyres on. Many people don't just sit and wait for the snow but swap early/late November to stay on the safe side and avoid a kilometer long queue to the shops in December. Another story is when you cause or are involved in an accident without proper tyres - simply you are screwed, even if it's not your fault.

Now, I understand Germany has similar rules - you can risk driving on summer tyres, but if you are caught wearing them on snow and/or ice you are screwed - and rightfuly.

See this https://www.wbs-law.de/eng/road-traffic-law-eng/law-winter-tyres-germany-48118/

https://www.german-way.com/travel-and-tourism/driving-in-europe/driving/snow-tires-winter-driving/

This is all about being responsible, and knowing what you are doing and risking.

It is not hard to imagine, and I've been several times in this situation:

Winter, via Germany, amazing 3-4 lane motorway, mountains, a lot of mighty hills, twists, dry conditions, everyone very fast and happy, and of a sudden the weather changes and we drive into a snow blizzard. Visibility very limited, good layer of snow under the wheels, a few huge hills (up and down) in front of me and nearest exit in 30-50km... Had I not got winter tyres then, I wouldn't have made it, also imagine the danger you could be to yourself and others.

I don't know about France, but in Poland and Czech Rep. no mandatory snow chains (only option), Slovakia - mandatory to have snow chains.

rz1c13 · March 12, 2018

On 11/03/2018 at 9:55 AM, jonthetourist said:

Hi Robert. These guys sound good. How is the price, please? Is it worth driving to Poland for?

Hi Jon,

Driving solely for the LPG install - probably not a good deal. Depending on where in the UK you are, you would probably burn £300-400 petrol to drive the LS to Warsaw + the cost of the trip back on LPG say 200-ish. My install costed 5500 PLN including a bigger LPG tank - you do the math, the ex. rate fluctuates.

The cost of instal is not cheap, especially for Polish conditions, but the reasons I did it this way are above (reliability, safety, good components), I could have done it easily for half the price in a shed of an LPG "magician" somewhere much closer than Warsaw, but at a great risk getting serviced by an arrogant idiot.

Now there is the question of legality of the Polish install in the UK. The Warsaw guys gave me a bunch of certificates and homologation documents stating that the install conforms to all the safety standards to use it in Poland, and from what I enquired also ok for Germany and most of the EU countries. However, I cannot tell if this would be ok for the UK authorities, and how to go about legalising this install in the UK. As said, I don't bother, as I bought my LS for export.

I believe you may find a good UK based installer. If you want details of my LPG kit, feel free to ask. I was told in Warsaw that the LPG kit they sold me was the best for the LS430 at the time. They could have easily milked my wallet and installed something more expensive, but they were honest.

They dynoed and tuned the car as well, which is not what most installers do. I mean fine-tune the LPG install, not a chip-tunning.

rz1c13 · March 12, 2018

Btw, guys, please go there

and share with me some thoughts, as it seems I didn't get much attention :)

jonthetourist · March 12, 2018

1 hour ago, rz1c13 said:

I believe you may find a good UK based installer. If you want details of my LPG kit, feel free to ask. I was told in Warsaw that the LPG kit they sold me was the best for the LS430 at the time. They could have easily milked my wallet and installed something more expensive, but they were honest.

Hi Robert. Thanks for the feedback. Good advice. I think what really swings the decision is that Poland is an awful long way to go if I have any problems post-installation. That price currently translates to £1160, by the way.

It would be good to know which kit your guys recommended. I was going to message you, but thought others may appreciate hearing it too. If you don't want to put it out there for any reason please message me.

Thanks again

Jon

dendonc · March 13, 2018

9 hours ago, rz1c13 said:

I cannot tell if this would be ok for the UK authorities,

Where it is not OK for uk authorities is channel tunnel link, conversions are banned & I think even manufacturers are banned from using the tunnel.

rz1c13 · March 13, 2018

6 hours ago, dendonc said:

Where it is not OK for uk authorities is channel tunnel link

Oh, no, I meant other authorities like DVLA. I know the tunnel bans LPG. It's rather obvious to me that if you do the LPG install in the UK it is the installer's job to conform to all domestic LPG standards. But let's say one day you go with your UK car and do the LPG install abroad, be it Poland or Germany, you name it. What is going to happen next? Who is going to assess that the install conforms to norms and regulations of the UK. I can easily imagine a situation that you could be kicked out by MOT people, declined insurance or something worse.

sorcerer · March 13, 2018

All it would need is an inspection by a "UKLPG Approved Installer" and, providing that it complies with UK rules and regs, they will issue a certificate that is acceptable to all insurance companies and other interested parties.

UKLPG are a trade body. In other words, you pay a membership fee and they let you into their club. It isn't government run or funded and it has no legal standing, but they've done a good job in convincing the authorities that they know best.

Bluesman · March 13, 2018

1 hour ago, sorcerer said:

All it would need is an inspection by a "UKLPG Approved Installer" and, providing that it complies with UK rules and regs, they will issue a certificate that is acceptable to all insurance companies and other interested parties.

UKLPG are a trade body. In other words, you pay a membership fee and they let you into their club. It isn't government run or funded and it has no legal standing, but they've done a good job in convincing the authorities that they know best.

Some of their members have done some of the worst work of any installers. Ignore the UKLPG branding as a kite mark to excellent work they are just a money making outfit for themselves and has nothing to do with making sure you get value for your money. There are no MOT requirements as yet, they were going to bring it into the MOT several years ago but they haven't done so far.

rz1c13 · March 13, 2018

21 hours ago, jonthetourist said:

It would be good to know which kit your guys recommended.

I'll try to find my LS430 LPG papers and post the list of equipment here soon.

21 hours ago, jonthetourist said:

I think what really swings the decision is that Poland is an awful long way to go if I have any problems post-installation

Yes, that's true, It is unlikely though you'll have a post-install problem, but there is also a question of warranty. To retain their 2yrs warranty you must do regular service intervals with them, if I remember correctly it's every 10 000 mile-ish (15 000km). All they would usualy do is to replace the liquid phase and gass phase filters (that cost 20PLN, less than £5), double-check all critical parts and components, charge you 150PLN (about £30) and off you go.