Crashed Lexus Loaner

[rich1068]

25 minutes ago, Linas.P said:

 

@rich1068 - I disagree, your local insurance broker is merely middle man between yourself and the same big company. In UK there are few underwriters, the rest are just brands of brokers selling same insurance and charging you commission for it. The conditions are decided by underwriter and just passed on you by the broker... so what is your gain by going local? You still obliged by the same rules, just need to pay extra for brokerage service?

You just disagreed with something I didn't say and ignored what I did. But hey, carry on. You're obviously on a roll.

[Linas.P]

My point is that conditions offered by them would be dictated by the same big company and just passed on you... So I don't understand your point regarding better service or improvement.

I see no problem with contacting my insurance, especially when renewal rip-off time comes-up. Insurer knowing who I am makes no difference what so ever when it comes to rip me off.. or in your own words rip me even more.

[Linas.P]

Just some facts:

in UK there are ~35 million vehicle, all of which are required to have insurance by law (2014 data):

https://www.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/302409/vls-2013.pdf

Now insurance association in UK claims following:

• Motor insurance sector lost £53 millions in 2013
• Paid out £17.1 million a day and there were 3 million claims in a year
• Average premium dropped by 13% YoY to ~£360 per policy

https://www.abi.org.uk/globalassets/sitecore/files/documents/publications/public/2014/key-facts/abi-key-facts-2014.pdf

Basic data crunching:

£35mln cars x £360 per year = £12,6bn

£17.1mln per day (x365) = £6.24bn

= Car insurance is bloody cash cow... £6.36bn left after the claims... however they claim they managed to burn all that money + £53mln!? So are they claiming £6+bn are not covering their operations costs? Very inefficient operations I must say! If there were 3 million claims then according to this data it costs ~ £2,120 to process single claim on top of actual average pay out of £2,080. They spending more money processing the claim then they spending on actually covering the damage - paradox... 

Few things to note:

• You see how their data is presented to confuse? Who cares about daily pay outs? Showing year totals would make it look obvious that something is wrong.
• Cost just doesn't add-up...
• How thin is that loss margin it is looks like "almost" intentional... (53mln from 12.6bn income is ~0.4%) - I believe it is actually intentional, because you see you need to pay tax on profit... but if you vent out all the profits to share holders and make loss, then you pay no tax! Clever.
• Top level fraud just in front of goverment nose... but everyone turn blind eye on it and there are people claiming insurance is apparently "value for money".. 

[Linas.P]

Please close this.

The question is answered:

• law does not require to disclose the damage to loan car, nor your own car to your insurer...
• contracts varies between insurance providers, some requires disclosure during the policy, others only during renewals, or only when you join...
• these disclosures are not legally binding, but might be against (illegal) contract terms arbitrary set-up by insurer...

In summary is such thing happens everyone needs to read their agreement and check what they are contractually (not legally) obliged to do. I red mine and it does not require me to disclose this at this moment. If insurance representatives going to ask me during my renewal whenever I had accidents in last 3 years, I would be lying by not mentioning it even though I am not legally obliged to tell. I guess I will decide then and there... 

P.S. I felt this needed separate thread as it was out of topic (recall), as well I jumped on @royoftherovers for what sounded like trolling, but potentially that was a valid point, depending on what your policy states. Contrary, the claims that I need to inform my insurance and tell them about all my accidents for up to 5 years are not true, or it depends.. So do not follow the suggestions blindly - read your policy! Similarly, with @rich1068 I am not disagreeing with you - I just don't see value in the point you mentioned about local broker. And thanks for contribution from all the rest  

[Ishaq]

My uncle works for Sainsbury's home delivery and I have asked him what happens when he crashes their vans. 

He said it has nothing to do with him as it goes through Sainsbury's insurance and he is just a driver. It has nothing to do with his policy and nor does he need to inform his insurance company anything on his private policy.

I guess courtesy car have the same thing where they just add your to their policy.

I know if I was told all was okay by Lexus dealer on returning the car then there is no need for me to inform my insurance on my private policy.

[Linas.P]

Funny enough, I was told exactly same thing by the guy who crashed into me - I am not going to name the company, but he said... It has nothing to do with him - it is company car and I only need company details, I don't even need the drivers details to make claim if I wanted to (or Lexus if they wanted to, but the don't).

[VrmmVrmm]

Wish I was a Guru!....some on here know more than others.  I can factually refute most of your reply from experience...but why bother?

[Shahpor]

Linas making more friends I see

[Bluesman]

I have always advocated that if something is required by law then it should be supplied/collected by the government, same as road tax and taxes in general etc.

[Shahpor]

2 minutes ago, Bluesman said:

I have always advocated that if something is required by law then it should be supplied/collected by the government, same as road tax and taxes in general etc.

Exactly.

Ideally as a non profit with premiums based on published statistics.

 

[KentIS300]

My CLS500 was damaged in Milan, by the hotel concierge service, the guy decided to clip the corner of the wall with my passenger side rear quarter panel, both side doors and mirror.

I was not driving my car, the accident took place in private land (hotel car park) and also it happened when abroad which my insurance only covers me as 3rd party fire and theft.

Total quoted repair cost by Mercedes dealer just over £3000 ...

Mercedes dealer insisted to go through my insurance to do the repair as this makes their life easier with payments.

The Hotel on the other hand wants this closed and dealt with the soonest possible as they feel bad with the inconvenience caused so far...

Everyone or at least the majority has told me that I HAD to report it to my insurance although it has nothing to do with me, I made the brave step and called my brokers accident line, before I even started giving account details, I was just describing what happened. The agent in short told me, they did not want to know, it is not a claim therefore it has nothing to do with my insurance.

However in my case, the hotel is paying all the repair bill and then the hotel is claiming it back from their Italian insurance, however from what I understand the insurance is not an automotive insurance... not sure if it makes any difference,

In your case, although the Lexus loaner had it's own insurance, your insurance still covers you to drive 3rd party cars, am I right? so I assume on that understanding they would like to know of the accident as you were the driver of the car at the point of accident.
Since it is a no fault claim when it is over and one with your premium in all fairness should not rise.

I had a non fault claim with my insurance about 7yrs ago, poor car was a write off, however I did not have any increase on our premium the year after the claim. (whole thing took about 3 months to settle)

[jackcramerr]

Why isn't there a choice for not having insurance? If someone who doesn't want insurace will simply need to fork out cash... What is the problem here?

 

[Shahpor]

1 hour ago, jackcramerr said:

Why isn't there a choice for not having insurance? If someone who doesn't want insurace will simply need to fork out cash... What is the problem here?

 

I'm not sure I 100% follow you here, but are you saying why can't people just pay themselves if they hit someone?

Let say you hit and write off a new 5 Series or E class.  Can you afford to pay £40k to replace it?

[NemesisUK]

7 hours ago, jackcramerr said:

Why isn't there a choice for not having insurance? If someone who doesn't want insurace will simply need to fork out cash... What is the problem here?

 

There is a choice ..

"The rules regarding insurance do not apply to a vehicle owned by a person who has deposited and keeps deposited with the Accountant General of the Senior Courts the sum of £500,000, at a time when the vehicle is being driven under the owner’s control."

http://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/1988/52/section/144

[rich1068]

Exactly what I do. Just couldn't face dealing with bloody Direct Line every year.

[Shahpor]

4 hours ago, NemesisUK said:

There is a choice ..

"The rules regarding insurance do not apply to a vehicle owned by a person who has deposited and keeps deposited with the Accountant General of the Senior Courts the sum of £500,000, at a time when the vehicle is being driven under the owner’s control."

http://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/1988/52/section/144

That is very interesting.  Although I am still surprised since it is quite possible to exceed £500,000 for a claim.  For example, if a personal injury claim was made, or you were really unlucky and wrote off a McLaren P1 or LaFerrari (although if you managed to destroy one of those then you deserve a good spanking ).

2 hours ago, rich1068 said:

Exactly what I do. Just couldn't face dealing with bloody Direct Line every year.

You have £500,000 deposited with the Accountant General?  You must really hate Direct Line

[bernieeccles]

It always amazed me that, despite the car insurance companies bleating on, year after year, that they are making losses, they continue to spend millions on TV adverts and in the past and now, adverts in Yellow Pages.

I remember in Yellow Pages' heyday, counting the number of pages that contained adverts for car insurance. There were literally about 60 in my local edition, all competing for your/my business.

Now with the advent of the comparison websites, we see it as well.

Why ? If they are making losses year after year, you would think they would through in the towel and give up. Of course a bit of crafty accounting can show whatever you want in the big corporate world.

Just look up the nett worth of that Woods guy, the one who started the online insurance game. Last time I looked, which was many years ago, he was worth half a billion pounds.

 

Losses ? don't make me laugh !

 

Have a look here.

http://www.insurancebusinessmag.com/uk/news/breaking-news/20-insurance-bigwigs-on-2017-uk-rich-list-66956.aspx

[Guest]

18 minutes ago, bernieeccles said:

 

Why ? If they are making losses year after year, you would think they would through in the towel and give up.

To get people to accept something - first you need a crisis.

[VrmmVrmm]

A loss in a business is often seen as a situation whereby they didn't meet a target profit...intended to make a £1 Billion...made £500 million profit.  Don't forget that many companies are not the underwriters they are just very large brokers.  The proof of which will be observed when the costs of hurricanes Harvey and Irma trickle down through the interlinked underwriters.  You may wonder why British oil refined in British refineries into petrol goes up at the pumps in Britain when the infrastructure in the US takes a hit...simply because its a global commodity.  It follows seeing that Insurance is also seen by the underwriters as global that they industry calculates risk on a global and sectoral basis.  Additionally categories of consumers are also risk graded.  The brokering of Insurance carries risks relating to getting enough consumers to engage their business with them to make their operation viable.  eg AA Car insurance is done on the basis of the AA being a brokerage...the underwriters might be Lloyds? (Lloyds example only) It follows that the AA could make a loss on their Insurance brokerage when Lloyds make a profit and also that the AA may make a profit when Lloyds or their underwriter makes a loss.  This industry is very fickle some they win some they lose ....after all they're only glorified bookies.

[Guest]

I assume they do something with premiums raised. Do they speculate on the markets with them?

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[jackcramerr]

There are many countries where insurance is not required by law and they are doing just fine.

Linas Don't drive like an a@@ and you will not hit that Farrari. Go back to driving school. I think if someone gets into accident that is clearly their fault, they should be spanked, driving rovked forever and jailed in my opinion.  Mistakes happen but they are never eye poping big. I am generalizing here of course so I must be wrong and I am exagerating. But point being, if you drive well within speed limit, know the priorities, drive road worthy car, drive according to conditions, drive with full concentration, drive smart and avoid unnecessary travel, take routes that are less busy etc etc you minimize the chances. Now if someone hits you, its their problem not yours. They should fork out cash.

 

If someone who cannot afford to get into accident should not be driving like an a@@ in the first place or have insurance. That is my view and I stand by it. I keep two car distances between the car infront of me at 30mph and the guy in my rear view can do f all. Not caring. Never crossed 70mph. Never crossed 20mph limit. Que behind me? that is their fault for over speeding and causing batches.

I pay x3 times the value of my car for insurance... Isn't that a joke? 

Insurance is biggest scam in the world and people who buy it are either forced or they know they are pish poor at driving and get into accident. Again, my view but I am too annoyed at this. I know a guy who gets insurance on everthing... why? he f ing breaks them so he can claim insurance and get a new item. Drops his laptop intentially etc. What a con. And calls himself a pure proud brit.

[Guest]

If someone who cannot afford to get into accident should not be driving like an a@@ in the first place or have insurance. That is my view and I stand by it. I keep two car distances between the car infront of me at 30mph and the guy in my rear view can do f all. Not caring. Never crossed 70mph. Never crossed 20mph limit. Que behind me? that is their fault for over speeding and causing batches.

Are you trolling or are you really one of those? Careful you don't fall off your horse.

Insurance covers for personal injury, potentially life changing injuries. A life time of care can run into 7 figures, I assume you can afford that? Or would you insure against it?

This can happen if a tree falls in front of your car or an animal such as a deer, or very high horses etc, so bad driving may not even be a factor.




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[jackcramerr]

I think I am on the wrong. Would have edited/removed my post if I could.

Still wonder why people overspeed though and not drive by the book.

[Guest]

No, I just prefer not to get annoyed about anything. Shrug and move on. Join and play the game or keep out altogether. Insurance is amazingly cheap considering the risk. It's cheap because we all share the risk.

For example if I asked you to cover me, how much would you want per year to cover that risk? Bearing in a mind a payout could be say 100k to be reasonable.

I don't believe a collision with an animal or fallen tree would be classed as an act of god.

Just trying to help you feel less angry at the world :)

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[Guest]

http://www.financial-ombudsman.org.uk/publications/ombudsman-news/1/non-disclosure-case-studies.htm

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