RC Speaker quiz

[Guest]

So rc-f has std 10 speakers or optional 17 speaker levinson.

 

What are the locations of all 17 speakers? Anyone ever bothered to look?

 

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[NemesisUK]

RC has 7 speakers as standard, optional 12 speaker with Premium Navigation or 17 speakers with Premium Nav and ML

12 speaker layout is, door speakers are dual cone, as are the speakers in the rear side panels. three speakers are in the dash top panel  (each end and centre) and then there's the sub in the rear parcel shelf.

ML speaker layout shown in this link

http://www.marklevinson.com/lexus-rc.html

 

[Linas.P]

According to Lexus UK - RC has only 6 speakers standard - two large in doors and 2 tweeters in dash + 2 components in the rear (not found this info anywhere, but that was the layout in my test car ~2016 F-Sport). NO sub and overall systems sounds exceptionally "dull", especially in lower end. System is the same as in IS, but I would argue that it is slightly better as cabin is smaller in RC. IS standard system not only sounds dull, but as well very weak - I had no such feeling in RC. It is comparably quite loud, but beyond certain point it was not making sound, but rather noise - it was painful to listen standard system over ~60% of volume as it starts muddling all frequencies together.

Information is scarce on Premium system, but as far as I know it is 10 speakers system, not 12 (and that is true according to Lexus UK as well). It might be confusion with IS which certainly has 10 speakers. Considering that RC ML has 2 more speakers than IS 17 over 15, it would make sense that RC has 2 more speakers in premium configuration as well.

[Rabbers]

I've been trying, I regret to say unsuccessfully, to find the French (or maybe Belgian) site from which, last year when I was awaiting delivery of my MY2016 RC300h, I jotted down the following data relative to the Pioneer 10-speaker system.  I've seen the data nowhere else.

256 WATTS TOTAL OUTPUT

SPEAKERS :  3.5 inch L and R dash 

                        2.6 inch centre dash

                        7.0 inch/dual-cone front doors 

                        6.3 inch rear side-panels (grilles colour-blended)

                       10.0 inch parcel-shelf sub-woofer

It appears that the rear side-panels speakers have been modified in MY2017.

[Guest]

If there are 12 locations I'd call it 12 speakers. 17 speakers seems a bit disingenuous. That would make my home cinema system 25 speakers using that logic!

My IS250 had 13 speakers in 13 locations - So my ML system has 12 speakers, some with multiple cones. Still sounds good, I was just wondering where the other 5 grills were.

[Rabbers]

On 8/24/2017 at 3:09 PM, Comedian said:

If there are 12 locations I'd call it 12 speakers. 17 speakers seems a bit disingenuous. That would make my home cinema system 25 speakers using that logic!

My IS250 had 13 speakers in 13 locations - So my ML system has 12 speakers, some with multiple cones. Still sounds good, I was just wondering where the other 5 grills were.

I agree entirely.  When I first had my RC with 10-speaker audio I remember thinking that I had never previously felt a need to count the speakers let alone research exactly what lay behind the grilles.

Lexus has never offered the sort of over-complicated descriptions that appeal to audio geeks, such mentions as the systems have received in advertising literature over the years having been limited to wattages and speaker numbers and a few laudatory adjectives.  I have always taken this sketchiness as an acknowledgment on Lexus' part that good audio does not rank so high in the desires of most car buyers as to significantly influence their final decision to buy any specific car and is therefore not worth actively promoting.

[Linas.P]

Agree with above with one limitation - most of Lexus owners assume that they don't need to worry about it and Lexus has fitted adequate system i.e. if you not audiophile the standard one will be plenty enough and you you want more then ML will be sufficient. That was the story from introduction of the brand...  Sadly that is not the case with MK3 IS or RC in case of standard audio system which I believe should not exist in the line-up at all. The "Premium" is equivalent of "Standard" on MK2 and ML is ML, but base option on MK3 is just.....

[NemesisUK]

I suppose it comes down to does one want a car or a mobile concert hall?

A sound system in a tin box rumbling along the road is never going to give an audiophile any sense of satisfaction. 

But then music has never featured high in my requirements from a car, performance, handling, ride and safety, yes

 

[Guest]

You're right. But a lounge with hard walls, tables and in a lot of homes hard floors and lots of glass isn't perfect either. However, for many people the car is the main place they get time to listen to music. If I'm going to play it I want it to sounds as good as possible. Not perfect, impossible unless you bring a live band or at least the SACD but just as good as it can be. Otherwise what's the point of even having the device in the car? May As well save the weight.

 

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[Linas.P]

Indeed if that would be the case then, take the units out all together - I can have better sound from £150 headphones... The point here is not whenever you can have "audiophile like" system in the car or not, but whenever system fitted to the car is adequate. 

As well we cannot just say whenever the system is adequate without any reference, as such if we compare it like for like e.g. in my MK2 IS standard system which came to any car from SE to SE-L gives all the sound I need. I had another IS250 with ML and as previously mentioned elsewhere combination of music style, input quality/mode, the fact I am not audiophile means that with my own ears I cannot sense much of the difference. Now in case I want to upgrade the, I can sense very clear difference when using MK3 standard 6 speakers and I would say I believe Standard 12 speakers in MK2 is just little bit better than Premium 10 speaker set in MK 3. That all basically means that MK3 is downgrade in terms of audio system which is generally wrong thing for the successor car...So from the point of returning Lexus customer Lexus system just "doesn't cut it". Now fair enough - Lexus allows me to test drive the car.. even for 24h to determine what is right and what is wrong.. 

Now imagine I am in the end of 2014 looking to get MY2015 RC300h F-Sport and there are no demos yet etc. and I am buying of the booklet. Based on my previous experience of the brand my choice would be - "1 -premium sat nav is waste of money, I would rather use phone app, so "no" for premium + 10 speakers option", "2 - ML is nice but it is £3000 with premium nav which I have already said is waste of money, so "no" for ML", "3 - based on my previous experience standard system is good enough".... Now .. upon receiving this car and listening the the system I would probably find the ways to reject it on the basis of not fit for purpose or it will be due for as early upgrade as possible. I know this is extreme example, but my point is - you don't need concert hall in the car, but the systems needs to be adequate. In conclusion Standard system in mk3 IS and RC is not adequate and should not exist in such "premium" brand vehicles, the premium and ML requires sat-nav which is cheeky..

This all reminds me times when cars were coming with like 4x10w speakers and cassette decks and all "custom/aftermarket" systems, removable-head units, amplifiers and car burglary was the thing... Lately ~10 last years that was going out of fashion because "factory" systems were becoming very good, or lets say "adequate".. Sitting in 2016 RC 300h with standard system it was literally like time machine - "so if I buy this... I need to get aftermarket audio system.. I guess...." Really not a type of memory Lexus wants to leave for their customers.

[Rabbers]

I apologise for straying OT, but I have always found it interesting that Lexus, unlike other marques with expensive flagship audio options of

their own, has never attempted to visually differentiate its ML systems. Even the logo is difficult to see unless you know it's there.  By contrast,

when you look, for example, inside a Benz with Burmester audio, the first things you see are the silvered speaker-grilles with the "forte" symbol,

and, just in case the mushroom tweeters escape your attention in an Audi with a B&O system, which is very unlikely, the liberal sprinkling of

names and logos throughout the cabin will, as intended, quickly set you right about the owner's level of income.  Certainly, in neither of these

cases are you left in any doubt that you are looking at serious pieces of kit, but it is difficult to escape the thought that the designers teetered

close to the edge before avoiding a potential drop into bling.  By comparison, Lexus can only be accused of an excess of sobriety which might

be considered boring by some and elegant by others.

[Linas.P]

I probably one from latter... Speakers are meant to "sound good" I cannot care less how they looks and to be honest if we talking specifically about Burmester in MB - they look outright ugly for me.. That is obviously, individual taste... but maybe that is the point - Lexus doesn't want to risk alienating some of the customers who don't like "flashy disco" toys?

[Guest]

Have seen only one car review that talked about hifi and the Harman Karden in the m4 gets a slating. What's more acceptable; having to pay for ML or having to pay for something not very good? I appreciate some don't care, I don't care about acc or tvd. If you do those options are available. My gripe at the start of the thread is lexus call it a 17 speaker system - and it isn't.

 

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[Rabbers]

To my post of 24 August I am now able to add, should anyone be interested, that the speakers in question (or maybe some of them)

employ Pioneer's proprietary premium CST (=COHERENT SOURCE TRANSDUCER) technology.  If I understand the claims right, this

ensures a more accurate delivery of sound from mid-range speakers at all frequencies to wherever in the cabin a listener is sitting.

[JonP]

Which I think is otherwise known as two concentric cones in one speaker. I believe Tannoy did this about 30+ years ago?

[Guest]

I suppose if they have aimed the cones specifically for the car it's a new 'thing' and an extra level of care and detail. It does sound fantastic. CST sounds like marketing BS though.

 

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[Rabbers]

3 hours ago, Comedian said:

... CST sounds like marketing BS ...

I confess that I often find the acronyms themselves to be more interesting than what they actually mean.  As you point out, CST sounds 

suspiciously like an example of marketing BS [by which I take it you mean TE = Taurine Excrement], and indeed, given the flashes of

semantic inventiveness one frequently encounters in them, the involvement of professional copywriters in their creation seems more

than likely - and, to my mind, quite welcome insofar as engineers have never been renowned for their communication skills.  Japanese

companies seem particularly fond of acronyms, Lexus being no exception.   My own favourite in the Lexus repertoire is V[EHICLE]

D[YNAMICS]  I[NTEGRATION] M[ANAGEMENT],  the meaning of which  seems, correctly in my case, to be conceptually so far

beyond the grasp of non-engineers as to require an accompanying for-dummies picture of a ball rolling unhindered around the inside            

of a hemisphere.  

[Guest]

Coming from the bike world yes that is 100 percent true, there are some real gems. Great post BTW :)

 

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