RC-F optional equiptment

NemesisUK · August 13, 2017

£1995 for the Premium Nav option, then another £1000 for the ML.

Personally I couldn't justify £1k on a sound system in a car. I find the 10 speaker Premium Nav sound more than adequate. I would prefer to spend it on my home system, where the acoustics are far more controllable ...

peachy · August 13, 2017

On 11/08/2017 at 8:36 PM, ColinBarber said:

Have you spent time with the standard system? That could be almost as good.

I've owned 2 lexus cars. One with ml and one with the standard system and I can't tell the difference between the two. The standard system is superb. The ml not worth the extra in my opinion.

Linas.P · August 13, 2017

16 minutes ago, peachy said:

I've owned 2 lexus cars. One with ml and one with the standard system and I can't tell the difference between the two. The standard system is superb. The ml not worth the extra in my opinion.

I completely agree that it s the case on IS mk2, but not mk3 IS and RC... Standard 6 speaker system is just awful.. @NemesisUK I can easily justify £1000 for ML considering how bad standard system is, but not £2995 as ML is only available with premium nav (which is by the way useless as well - compared to free app on the phone). So basically in RC you are forced to get at least £1995 premium nav option and then extra £1000 is kind of diminishing returns on ML.

NemesisUK · August 13, 2017

@Linas.P I find the Premium Nav eminently usable, completely satisfactory and very convenient. It's connected services work very well and I haven't found it wanting in getting me from A to B My phone stays safely stowed in the centre cubby..

Linas.P · August 13, 2017

3 minutes ago, NemesisUK said:

@Linas.P I find the Premium Nav eminently usable, completely satisfactory and very convenient. It's connected services work very well and I haven't found it wanting in getting me from A to B My phone stays safely stowed in the centre cubby..

That is what any nav does in any newish car - nothing special. The problems is that Lexus/Toyota decided not to use Android Car Play/Apple Car and hence their navigation function itself is lacking. For example Waze or googlemaps on my phone car run circles around them in terms of real time traffic condition and routing. I am not saying there is no such functions, but the suggestions they give and speeds is at 2008 level, not at 2017. The interface is dated and not very intuitive as well. If I could choose ML without Sat nav at all that would be good enough. Finally, I agree it is ok going from city to city or driving in country side, but it is not up for task navigating in London traffic where timely information and accurate predictions are necessary.

NemesisUK · August 13, 2017

I don't need anything special, just usable. To say the Lexus Nav system is good or bad is very subjective. I grant it isn't intuitive in it's operation but practice makes perfect

Personally I dislike "add-ons" and using my phone as a Nav system, it's a communication device.

All very personal and subjective. I'm perfectly happy with the Lexus system

Linas.P · August 13, 2017

Overall, I would not say Lexus Sat Nav is significantly worse than other makes (unless they like Tesla uses google maps which are much better). It is fine for showing the most straightforward route, not as much predicting traffic condition with accuracy of minute if not seconds. That prediction is what I need... I already know my way to work and back home, I don't need sat nav to barely show me where to go, what I need is accurate conditions and possible shortcuts and ways around traffic. That what phone apps are capable of, not built in sat navs (I am yet to see one fitted in the car by default ... again except Tesla and few other using apps).

In terms of phone as communication device ... that is bit outdated, days gone when phone was there to only make calls, then there was second generation which said "each devices has its own place" and refused to throw away ipods and kept on their bulky DSLRs, dedicated sat navs in the cars... now even that is gone, even professional photographers agrees that phone camera is fully sufficient for daily use and taking full size camera is only necessary specific work purposes. Same with sat nav, I don't really care that phone is "primarily communication device" if sat nav on it is more intuitive, faster, more accurate and predicts faster route for me more consistently. There is nothing subjective about it - it is fact that if I leave tomorrow in the morning and there is traffic on my way to work (which is 100% there because it is London) app such as Waze or built in google maps will show me better and faster route to work than Lexus sat nav would.

Finally, on other cars there is again Android car play etc. which allows your entertainment system to use your phone functionality such as that superior navigation, without need of using your phone screen or cradle to hold it - it is kind of best of both worlds.

___

Just wanted to add that my original point was not about how good or bad Lexus sat nav is, but more about that I am happy to pay £1000 for ML system if it upgrades the car from 6 speakers poverty line to 17 speakers ML system, what I am not happy with is to pay £1995 for sat nav which I don't need and it adds no value for me (considering normal nav is already in standard equipment).

Standard Lexus nav does all what I need from it - simple point to point navigation in case I don't know the roads and without need of using data (especially useful when going abroad). If I want real time traffic and routing I don't need to spend £1995, I can simply get free app which as well works better than Lexus system.

Finally, finally... It applies only for RC300/200t F-sport and Luxury. This all doesn't apply to RC-F, nor Premium trim in other RC's as they gets premium sat nav with reasonable 10 speakers audio from standard. Furthermore, I haven seen RC-F without ML anyway so all argument is more theoretical.

Rabbers · August 14, 2017

The merits and de-merits, the latter mainly economic, of ML audio have been debated as long as LOC Forums have existed without, as far

as I can see, anything like a general consensus of opinion having emerged. As for me, my RC is my first Lexus without ML, which, on the

basis of tried and trusted performance, I would have preferred had its availability not involved a wait of 4-5 months against immediate

delivery of an F-Sport with the 10-speaker system as standard. While I have learned to live with the latter system, and consider its quality

perfectly acceptable (so much so that I am faintly ashamed to be focusing on such a typically First-World issue), I would still objectively have

preferred the ML. What I would not have tolerated, on the other hand, and would have put up with any length of waiting-list to avoid it, is

the 6-speaker system, whose tinniness I experienced in a CT loaner and which would certainly once not have been considered worthy of

Lexus, let alone of any of its higher models.

MNMJ · August 14, 2017

23 hours ago, wendle said:

unfortunately if everyone listened to Lexus reviews made by Top gear we wouldn't buy any model.

Carry on Top Gear I say. It makes them rarer and cheaper to buy. Double win.

Linas.P · August 15, 2017

On 8/14/2017 at 8:14 AM, Rabbers said:

What I would not have tolerated, on the other hand, and would have put up with any length of waiting-list to avoid it, is the 6-speaker system, whose tinniness I experienced in a CT loaner and which would certainly once not have been considered worthy of Lexus, let alone of any of its higher models.

Cannot agree more, I believe from 10 speaker "premium" ML is diminishing returns on investment, no doubt better, but not exactly best value for money.

However 6 speakers standard system is profiteering gone wrong, that is something I call negative marketing - "make standard offer so bad, that customers will have no choice but to upgrade"... works well for budget airlines making standard seats so miserable that you have no other option but to upgrade to "premium economy", from there on "first class" is diminishing returns as well, not sure it is good idea for premium automotive brand selling exclusive cars in niche market.

ColinBarber · August 15, 2017

The RC-F standard audio is a 10-speaker system, the ML is optional. There isn't a 6-speaker system on the RC-F.

The RC is similar to the IS, three systems available - standard, premium, and ML. The standard 6-speaker system is weak.

Linas.P · August 15, 2017

That was mentioned already several time. Indeed the topic is about RC-F... from the responses above it seems everyone are in agreement that standard system is decent enough - though I have yet to see RC-F without ML.

I guess I was more in interested in TVD and ACC/PCS... for what I could gather TVD is great addition, though not showstopper for daily driver. Any other opinions on ACC/PCS.. Any negatives of TVD (except few extra kg of weight)?...

mikesands · January 11, 2023

so how feasible is it to DIY upgraded speakers if you are stuck with the 6-speaker system on the Luxury 300H?

Mike

Linas.P · January 12, 2023

12 hours ago, mikesands said:

so how feasible is it to DIY upgraded speakers if you are stuck with the 6-speaker system on the Luxury 300H?

Not easy... I would not say impossible, because basically it is no different from fitting the speakers in good old times to the cars which had nothing. Basically you would need everything - amps, wires, speakers etc. The problem is that in old good days there were standard 1 din or 2 din slots, so at least the head unit was relatively simple affair. Nowadays in RC you have head unit which has no outputs and which is obviously custom made to the car and it will complicate everything.

So the start it would be to replace Lexus unit with android unit (there are ones made specifically for RC) and it will cost £500-700, then for speakers and amps you can go with as much or as little as you want, could be something as low as £500, could be £10,000. Now to rationalise the price - to get sound quality of the next level-up (Pioneer 10-speaker system from Lexus) I would say you need to spend additional £1000 and to get to the point of Mark Levinson - probably £1500-£2000. Realistically you can't get to the same point as ML as it would require cutting new holes in panels and adding speakers to the places where there are none, so it is diminishing returns and not feasible. The £1000 would get you all replacement components for the places where the 6-Speakers are located with decent amp + either active-sub or sub and the amp, just bear in mind that this means driving with the sub-box in the boot. There are slim subs that go under the seats as a option, but integrating it the way Lexus did it in higher spec. systems would be complicated.

In short - this would be costly affair, at minimum £1500. Overall, my advise would be to ignore Luxury trim, it is the most basic, it is missing most of key features and thus you will be losing a lot on resale. And at the same time £1500 extra probably already buys F-Sport over Luxury (the only Caveat F-Sport could come with 6-speaker system as well). If you getting it for good price, then this is basically the reason why - it is missing most of equipment and model highlights like LF-A style dash etc. Obviously, that is just my personal opinion and your personal circumstances might justify the purchase, but I would avoid it.

mikesands · January 12, 2023

3 hours ago, Linas.P said:

Not easy... I would not say impossible, because basically it is no different from fitting the speakers in good old times to the cars which had nothing. Basically you would need everything - amps, wires, speakers etc. The problem is that in old good days there were standard 1 din or 2 din slots, so at least the head unit was relatively simple affair. Nowadays in RC you have head unit which has no outputs and which is obviously custom made to the car and it will complicate everything.

So the start it would be to replace Lexus unit with android unit (there are ones made specifically for RC) and it will cost £500-700, then for speakers and amps you can go with as much or as little as you want, could be something as low as £500, could be £10,000. Now to rationalise the price - to get sound quality of the next level-up (Pioneer 10-speaker system from Lexus) I would say you need to spend additional £1000 and to get to the point of Mark Levinson - probably £1500-£2000. Realistically you can't get to the same point as ML as it would require cutting new holes in panels and adding speakers to the places where there are none, so it is diminishing returns and not feasible. The £1000 would get you all replacement components for the places where the 6-Speakers are located with decent amp + either active-sub or sub and the amp, just bear in mind that this means driving with the sub-box in the boot. There are slim subs that go under the seats as a option, but integrating it the way Lexus did it in higher spec. systems would be complicated.

In short - this would be costly affair, at minimum £1500. Overall, my advise would be to ignore Luxury trim, it is the most basic, it is missing most of key features and thus you will be losing a lot on resale. And at the same time £1500 extra probably already buys F-Sport over Luxury (the only Caveat F-Sport could come with 6-speaker system as well). If you getting it for good price, then this is basically the reason why - it is missing most of equipment and model highlights like LF-A style dash etc. Obviously, that is just my personal opinion and your personal circumstances might justify the purchase, but I would avoid it.

yes - just been going through the user manual and realise that there's a lot missing when it's the Luxury Trim. Having said that it's got 18 inch wheels and a nice ride. Many of the options available on the F-sport are not what I want. Oddly I found this morning that I could accept the standard 6 speaker system (and I have ML in my RX400H). Having been caught by Lexus's absolutely dreadful and expensive satnav systems previously, I would always use my Iphone, so that aspect of the upgrade options is irrelevant too. ..... But there were some other obvious stuff missing that looks as though I might pine for it. This car has nice grey leather though and most of the cars are funereal black. I hate the reversing camera in my RX and much preferred the beeping sensors in my previous LS and Gs. This RC has the sensors but there's a message saying they need cleaning - which I have done but the error is still there - any tips?

Mike

Linas.P · January 12, 2023

6 minutes ago, mikesands said:

This RC has the sensors but there's a message saying they need cleaning - which I have done but the error is still there - any tips?

Contact the seller to sort out... seems like faulty to me.

I had my RC quite filthy and I never got to the point where it was complaining about it. In previous IS this would only happen when sensors are literally covered in mud, snow or something like leaf stuck on it, so physically blocking the sensor. If you cleaned the sensor and it still doesn't work, then I suspect they are faulty. And the worst part of it - generally Lexus sensors don't fail... so I don't want to speculate, but faulty sensor is usually a sign of previous accident and somebody not plugging them in correctly, or damaging them in the process, or maybe if part required painting, then painting over them. As as I said before - I would go to the seller to sort it out, and whilst at it I would inspect carefully for any other worrying signs, it isn't normal...

mikesands · January 12, 2023

1 minute ago, Linas.P said:

Contact the seller to sort out... seems like faulty to me.

I had my RC quite filthy and I never got to the point where it was complaining about it. In previous IS this would only happen when sensors are literally covered in mud, snow or something like leaf stuck on it, so physically blocking the sensor. If you cleaned the sensor and it still doesn't work, then I suspect they are faulty. And the worst part of it - generally Lexus sensors don't fail... so I don't want to speculate, but faulty sensor is usually a sign of previous accident and somebody not plugging them in correctly, or damaging them in the process, or maybe if part required painting, then painting over them. As as I said before - I would go to the seller to sort it out, and whilst at it I would inspect carefully for any other worrying signs, it isn't normal...

I think I found them all but may not have done - particularly the front sensors. - are they hidden in the black grille? By the way - do I have to switch on parking assist for them to beep at all?

Mike

Linas.P · January 12, 2023

1 minute ago, mikesands said:

I think I found them all but may not have done - particularly the front sensors. - are they hidden in the black grille? By the way - do I have to switch on parking assist for them to beep at all?

I wasn't even sure if Luxury has front parking sensors, but it seems it does... 4 in the back 4 in the front. Should be two at the bottom of the grille just above the lip.