Lexus Warranty - "reneging"?

PCM · July 28, 2017

Just after some words of wisdom.

I have a Lexus warranty.

Long story short, Lexus Warranty agreed to some work on my car this week. It was then found that extra work was needed. No work yet done.

They sent an independent engineer.

Having agreed to pay the first claim - for work yet to be done - they have now changed their mind, saying my car is too old, and won't pay anything.

Any thoughts much appreciated!

GSLV6 · July 28, 2017

If you have a valid warranty, it is a contract and is binding if the T's and C's are met and it is all paid up. Lexus have a policy of only granting warranties for vehicles of 10 years old or younger, and even then, the small print details things like on the hybrid models, only covering the inverters and motors for a limited time from new (5 years?) so even with a warranty, you have to know what is covered and what isn't. If you took a warranty out in good faith, one would like to think that they have to honour it. Their problem if they signed up to one and didn't check your car's age. If they've taken payment after offering a warranty, and that was specifically for your car and was the full Lexus warranty, that is offer to treat and acceptance in UK law, so must be honoured. Small claims court would settle that in an instant, so if they refuse, it could be worth mentioning that you have the option to go to the small claims court (which if Lexus had made an honest mistake, may not matter...they may still be liable but you may only get the cost of the warranty back). Worth speaking to your Lexus branch manager and try to get a reasonable outcome from them before going further.

PCM · July 28, 2017

Thank you. I have successfully claimed in the past on it for the same car...

I'll keep pursuing it. MY Lexus Dealer are being VERY supportive.

Shahpor · July 28, 2017

It might also be helpful if we knew what the fault was?

PCM · July 28, 2017

7 minutes ago, Shahpor said:

It might also be helpful if we knew what the fault was?

It's a cracked radiator...

Shahpor · July 29, 2017

Sounds simple? How does replacing a cracked radiator involve extra work?

PCM · July 29, 2017

4 hours ago, Shahpor said:

Sounds simple? How does replacing a cracked radiator involve extra work?

It's because another 'part' became involved as well...

But again, the Lexus DEALER involved is being BRILLIANT in helping.

DocT · July 29, 2017

18 hours ago, PCM said:

They sent an independent engineer.

Having agreed to pay the first claim - for work yet to be done - they have now changed their mind, saying my car is too old, and won't pay anything.

I have recently had a similar experience on my car, which has a Lexus Extended Warranty until 2019.

At a recent MOT my car was found to have slight play in the bottom steering UJ. This was checked with Lexus Warranty and the go-ahead for repairs given. When the car went in for the work it was found that the fault was actually in the column (which has had a recall in some markets!). As the cost for this work was higher, Lexus Warranty called for an independent engineer to inspect the work. He refused the claim stating "fair wear and tear" for a 7 year-old car.

The dealer was as surprised by this as me and offered to pay for the work themselves. Whether they can claim this back from Lexus I have no idea but I have nothing but praise for the dealer (Cheltenham Lexus) who have been extremely supportive.

The work has now been done and it has made a huge difference to the car. The steering is now much smoother.

I think the issue is with the independent engineer whose sole aim seems to refuse as many claims as possible. If I had one of the many dubious third-party warranties I would half expect this but surely Lexus should be keen to ensure that their much-vaunted reputation for reliability and customer support is maintained. Cost of repairs really shouldn't matter in the pursuit of this, it should be purely based on whether the part is expected to fail or wear at the age/mileage. In my case the dealer certainly considered this premature failure and thought it should have been fully covered.

I have written to Lexus Warranty for clarification about their policy on this and their MOT protection built into the warranty but have yet to receive a reply. I'll let you know what transpires.

Shahpor · July 29, 2017

2 hours ago, DocT said:

The dealer was as surprised by this as me and offered to pay for the work themselves. Whether they can claim this back from Lexus I have no idea but I have nothing but praise for the dealer (Cheltenham Lexus) who have been extremely supportive.

I had to read this line twice to make sure I understood correctly.

Wow, that is so unexpected that I almost don't believe you. Exceptional service from the dealer. Very impressive.

I do agree with you regarding the independent assessments. Every time I hear of someone getting it done, it never works out well. Perhaps I am being pessimistic, but I do wonder if there is some pressure on them to deny claims.

rayaans · July 29, 2017

3 hours ago, DocT said:

I have recently had a similar experience on my car, which has a Lexus Extended Warranty until 2019.

At a recent MOT my car was found to have slight play in the bottom steering UJ. This was checked with Lexus Warranty and the go-ahead for repairs given. When the car went in for the work it was found that the fault was actually in the column (which has had a recall in some markets!). As the cost for this work was higher, Lexus Warranty called for an independent engineer to inspect the work. He refused the claim stating "fair wear and tear" for a 7 year-old car.

The dealer was as surprised by this as me and offered to pay for the work themselves. Whether they can claim this back from Lexus I have no idea but I have nothing but praise for the dealer (Cheltenham Lexus) who have been extremely supportive.

The work has now been done and it has made a huge difference to the car. The steering is now much smoother.

I think the issue is with the independent engineer whose sole aim seems to refuse as many claims as possible. If I had one of the many dubious third-party warranties I would half expect this but surely Lexus should be keen to ensure that their much-vaunted reputation for reliability and customer support is maintained. Cost of repairs really shouldn't matter in the pursuit of this, it should be purely based on whether the part is expected to fail or wear at the age/mileage. In my case the dealer certainly considered this premature failure and thought it should have been fully covered.

I have written to Lexus Warranty for clarification about their policy on this and their MOT protection built into the warranty but have yet to receive a reply. I'll let you know what transpires.

I've heard of this from other customers of Lexus Cheltenham and Listers Lexus.

Don't know what they're playing at but other dealers dont seem to know of it at all and found no play in my 5 year old RX when it went in too.

After buying my 4RX from Cheltenham, I'd take what they say with a pinch of salt. They're not exactly what you would call the most honest of dealers

royoftherovers · July 29, 2017

Steering is a "Protected Part" and as such cannot be subject to a wear and tear definition.

Pay for the work to be done if it is required,then pursue the Warranty Company via the small claims track of the Courts. It will only cost you £25 to set up the claim on -line.

There are too many cases of wear and tear being used to deny claims under the Extended Warranty.

Regards

John

DocT · July 29, 2017

34 minutes ago, rayaans said:

I've heard of this from other customers of Lexus Cheltenham and Listers Lexus.

Don't know what they're playing at but other dealers dont seem to know of it at all and found no play in my 5 year old RX when it went in too.

After buying my 4RX from Cheltenham, I'd take what they say with a pinch of salt. They're not exactly what you would call the most honest of dealers

Is any car dealer honest? I know that their pre-sale preparation is not up to much. When the sun came out after I first collected my car from them you could see it was covered in micro-swirls. I spent a day with the DA polisher and when I took my car back to them for service they (jokingly, I think) offered me a job valeting their cars.

To be fair they didn't have to change the column, they could have just accepted the assessor's report. The new column has definitely made a difference, previously you could feel the (very slight) play if you moved the steering wheel from side to side when the car was stationary.

As it didn't cost me a penny I'm not complaining.

DocT · July 29, 2017

10 minutes ago, royoftherovers said:

Steering is a "Protected Part" and as such cannot be subject to a wear and tear definition.

They have that covered! The Ts & Cs state:

2.2 We will not pay for the cost of repairing or replacing any Protected Part that suffers a Mechanical or Electrical Failure as a result of wear and tear.

The problem is that the warranty is administered for Lexus by TWG who provide many of the junk warranties around and who, I know, seem to do their utmost to refuse a claim. Once the claim is referred by Lexus to a TWG-appointed assessor the scene is set!

royoftherovers · July 29, 2017

10 minutes ago, DocT said:

They have that covered! The Ts & Cs state:

2.2 We will not pay for the cost of repairing or replacing any Protected Part that suffers a Mechanical or Electrical Failure as a result of wear and tear.

The problem is that the warranty is administered for Lexus by TWG who provide many of the junk warranties around and who, I know, seem to do their utmost to refuse a claim. Once the claim is referred by Lexus to a TWG-appointed assessor the scene is set!

Well spotted David.

I contend therefore that the Warranty itself is unfair in that it "pretends" to accept vehicles up to 10 years old ,having covered less than 140,000 miles, when in fact ANY mechanical or electrical failure will have passed the design life by ,say, 7 years or 80,000 miles ?

Time for Watchdog ?

Regards

John

rayaans · July 29, 2017

1 hour ago, DocT said:

Is any car dealer honest? I know that their pre-sale preparation is not up to much. When the sun came out after I first collected my car from them you could see it was covered in micro-swirls. I spent a day with the DA polisher and when I took my car back to them for service they (jokingly, I think) offered me a job valeting their cars.

To be fair they didn't have to change the column, they could have just accepted the assessor's report. The new column has definitely made a difference, previously you could feel the (very slight) play if you moved the steering wheel from side to side when the car was stationary.

As it didn't cost me a penny I'm not complaining.

Well most dealers dont bother with swirls anyway

Slight play is usually normal wear and tear but I wonder if they're changing them for another reason!

OldTrout · July 29, 2017

30 minutes ago, royoftherovers said:

Well spotted David.

I contend therefore that the Warranty itself is unfair in that it "pretends" to accept vehicles up to 10 years old ,having covered less than 140,000 miles, when in fact ANY mechanical or electrical failure will have passed the design life by ,say, 7 years or 80,000 miles ?

Time for Watchdog ?

Regards

John

I would like to believe that the design life for a Lexus is at least 10 years and 150k mile. It is for many other brands.

John

royoftherovers · July 29, 2017

Name me one other brand John.

Mercedes have a design life of 7 years max for each model and others have 5 years.

I too would like to believe what you might believe, but it is not the real World.

My contention is that the Party to the Agreement (Warranty) , namely us, are LED to believe that 10 years and 140,000 miles is the life of the product and we pay top whack prices for the Warranty too.

The entire Agreement is unfair and tilted significantly in favour of Lexus.

It`s a bit like saying Heads I win, Tails you lose !!

Regards

John

OldTrout · July 29, 2017

Many years ago Jaguar were 10 years and 150k miles. Not sure about Aston Martin. Average AM annual mileage is <5k so design life probably never comes up. My neighbour works in the industry and he says 300km now.

I think my dampers are both poor quality and expensive.

I agree about the warranty. Over 100k miles and say 8 years many more parts get excluded by wear and tear than they would at 30k miles and 4 years.

I wonder what warranty work does get done on our older cars?

John

Shahpor · July 29, 2017

Well, as an example, my car was 7 years old and with a 109k miles on it when I made my first claim, which was for a dual mass flywheel.

Since then it has had 3 calipers replaced, and is having a new seat back fitted next week at 9 years old and 130k miles.

The only thing they wouldn't cover was my engine mounts, but the dealer came through on that one, so I wasn't too bothered.

GSLV6 · July 29, 2017

2 hours ago, DocT said:

Is any car dealer honest? I know that their pre-sale preparation is not up to much. When the sun came out after I first collected my car from them you could see it was covered in micro-swirls. I spent a day with the DA polisher and when I took my car back to them for service they (jokingly, I think) offered me a job valeting their cars.

To be fair they didn't have to change the column, they could have just accepted the assessor's report. The new column has definitely made a difference, previously you could feel the (very slight) play if you moved the steering wheel from side to side when the car was stationary.

As it didn't cost me a penny I'm not complaining.

I've also found their customer service excellent and have been using them for years now . Like your experience, I've had a few replacements under warranty with my lexus vehicles, and for those parts needed that weren't covered by the warranty, I've always had a discount on the parts so can't complain.

tom123 · July 31, 2017

On 7/28/2017 at 4:28 PM, PCM said:

Just after some words of wisdom.

I have a Lexus warranty.

Long story short, Lexus Warranty agreed to some work on my car this week. It was then found that extra work was needed. No work yet done.

They sent an independent engineer.

Having agreed to pay the first claim - for work yet to be done - they have now changed their mind, saying my car is too old, and won't pay anything.

Any thoughts much appreciated!

There is some good advice on the Financial Ombudsman website: "We generally consider that if insurers expect substantial "wear and tear" to occur within the period covered by the policy, they should not sell policies for that duration."

http://www.financial-ombudsman.org.uk/publications/technical_notes/extended-warranties.html

Your claim in the small claims track of the county court would be against the dealer who (mis)sold you the warranty, rather than Lexus themselves.

The only way to get them to change their mind is to publicly shame them..Twitter, Facebook, the motoring press...

royoftherovers · August 1, 2017

8 hours ago, tom123 said:

There is some good advice on the Financial Ombudsman website: "We generally consider that if insurers expect substantial "wear and tear" to occur within the period covered by the policy, they should not sell policies for that duration."

http://www.financial-ombudsman.org.uk/publications/technical_notes/extended-warranties.html

Your claim in the small claims track of the county court would be against the dealer who (mis)sold you the warranty, rather than Lexus themselves.

The only way to get them to change their mind is to publicly shame them..Twitter, Facebook, the motoring press...

I agree wholeheartedly.

Regards

John

DocT · August 1, 2017

9 hours ago, tom123 said:

There is some good advice on the Financial Ombudsman website: "We generally consider that if insurers expect substantial "wear and tear" to occur within the period covered by the policy, they should not sell policies for that duration."

http://www.financial-ombudsman.org.uk/publications/technical_notes/extended-warranties.html

Your claim in the small claims track of the county court would be against the dealer who (mis)sold you the warranty, rather than Lexus themselves.

The only way to get them to change their mind is to publicly shame them..Twitter, Facebook, the motoring press...

That's really useful information. Thanks for posting it.

Malc · August 1, 2017

this is confusing me a little ......... if the potential claim is against the Lexus Main Dealer for mis-selling the warranty BUT it is being sold and pressured to be sold by Lexus itself BUT Lexus itself then sets the threshold to claim too high. then I don't see how the claim can be against the Dealer !

The row is between Lexus UK and the underwriter of their warranty surely ?

The poor customer gets shafted in the middle and that's why the Dealer is trying to protect the customer .... against all the odds I surmise