In the end, a simple dilemma

[rayaans]

So I promised a write up of my adventures into searching for a vehicle to replace my 3RX. Nothing wrong with it, just fancied a change and thought it was a good time to buy after 5 years. 

Initially, I was thinking of changing brands and spending the next few years with something new but I didn't rule out the vehicles from Lexus. There were 3 categories the replacement would have to fill:

         1) Had to be an SUV

         2) Had to be different to the norm

         3) Had to fall within my budget of £45k

From some quick research, the initial contenders were the Volvo XC90, Jaguar F-Pace, BMW X6, Mercedes GLE, Lexus NX and Lexus RX. I excluded the Porsche Cayenne as the interior was too busy and the Range Rover Sport as it was more expensive and had well known reliability issues. The Q7 was also excluded as I just didn't like the bulbous look it has even though a good example was available within my budget. Additionally, I deliberately drove the 4RX last so I got an idea of all the other vehicles before it and therefore I could compare better.

The next step was to find any vehicles I fancied by trawling through Autotrader and Manufacturer Used sections of their websites. The Lexus NX was the exception here as I didn't find anything I particularly liked and it would have come within my budget new, so I would have taken the new option of Mesa Red/Red with Premier pack. 

 

Volvo XC90

The first vehicle I looked for was the Volvo XC90. I found one in Sunderland with the D5 2.0l diesel engine and in Inscription trim. I liked the colour and it was in my budget so went to test drive it. 

Initial impressions were that it looked classy but was also quite boxy. It looked great it the Luminous Sand colour but would have preferred another interior colour other than black but it wasn't a huge issue. The boxy shape obviously LED to a huge amount of interior space and the boot was cavernous. The XC90 was also the only 7 seater I looked at - didn't really need a 7 seater but it would have come in handy when the in laws were around. 

Spec wise, it was OK. Didn't have many optional extras and no panoramic sunroof either but it had huge side windows so the interior was fairly airy. The interior quality was good yet there were some cheaper feeling gloss black plastics scattered around and whilst the infotainment screen was very simple to use whilst stationary, it was a nightmare whilst driving and I missed dedicated buttons from my RX for certain functions.

Driving impressions - This is where the XC90 fell short. Yes the wind noise is suppressed well but the engine makes itself noticeable and being a 2.0l diesel, it does sound rough at times, especially compared to the buttery smooth 3RX. There is some road noise due to its wide tyres as well. The spec sheet also read 0-60mph in 7.4s or something like that - no chance! It felt heavy and realistically, it must have been around 8.5-9s as the engine seems to run out of puff over 3.5k rpm. The mid-range acceleration was pretty mediocre compared to the 3RX as well. Having said that, in town it was perfectly acceptable and if driven sedately, should be fine for most people. The handling was OK for a big bus, it did roll a bit in the corner but only slightly but this was the result of relatively firm suspension. The gearbox (an 8 Speed Aisin unit used in some Lexus vehicles) was jerky when pressing on a bit and overall, it just needed to be driven sedately to enjoy it.

Conclusion - in the end, I felt the XC90 wasn't for me. It gets rave reviews from the press and I can see why - its built very well and suppresses noises from the outside very well. However, the engine remains its weakest point and ideally, it needs around 270hp. The fuel economy was dismal as well (30mpg) and when Volvo have downsized to a 2l for that very reason, it makes you think that Audi's strategy of "right sizing" is a much better option as it seems to get better fuel economy with a lot more power and refinement.

 

Jaguar F-Pace

After deciding the XC90 wasn't for me, off I trawled to Jaguar Preston to see this car! 

First impressions - a good looking vehicle - certain angles looked funny (the front looks odd IMO) but overall not bad and certainly not a vehicle you see everyday (although they are getting more common now). I haven't see one in Black yet so thought that was probably the one to go for if I did decide on a Jag. 

This particular example had two tone red/black leather as well but also had a 2.0l diesel engine. Spec wise, it was OK. It had a pan roof but it didnt open, tinted windows and memory seats (all optional extras). Apart from that I think it was fairly stock. This basically meant that there were no LED headlights, no reversing camera, no adaptive cruise control etc.

The biggest difference when getting into the F-Pace after testing the XC90 was the reduced cabin space. There was less headroom and shoulder room in every seat and reduced boot space. The greatest problem was the rear seat foot space. Its probably the worst design Ive ever come across in an SUV - the footwell is extremely narrow and my wife's IS has a bigger footwell.

The quality of materials in the Jag was also poor in comparison to the Volvo. The main bits that I noticed was that some of the stitching on the dashboard was not straight, some of the buttons felt a bit cheap and components moved more i.e steering wheel, armrests etc when giving them a vigorous shake. The door panels had a tinny sound when tapped too (something I just do in all cars I see now, sounds stupid but gives you a good idea of how the car is built). The infotainment was easier to use on the move compared to the Volvo but overall, just a slower system. The audio system was crap compared to the ML in the 3RX so this was off-putting. Im also not sure on the leather - it didn't feel like real leather.

Driving impressions - what the F-pace lacks in interior quality, it makes up for in driving experience. It handles very well and feels connected to the road. Again, the weakest link is the diesel here. For a great handling car, there's just not enough power to exploit the handling characteristics. The engine is also less refined than in the XC90 and there is more tyre roar and wind noise. Of course, the 3.0l is available but this was out of the budget!

Conclusion - The F-Pace left me feeling cold. Whilst the F-pace is a brilliant handling SUV, I realised I would hardly exploit its handling capabilities and therefore, preferred the more refined option which was the XC90 after testing the Jag. The XC90 had better interior quality and was ultimately, a more solid feeling vehicle and at this point, the XC90 had gone to the top of the list. Now I realise that the F-Pace was cheaper than the XC90 but it feels that way - the real question is, would I rather have a newer, cheaper feeling car or a 1 year older, expensive feeling car for similiar price and I would go for the older, better quality car everyday of the week.

 

BMW X6

Off I went to BMW in Rochdale to see a Flamenco Red X6 M-Sport. 

Initial impressions - Personally thought it was a great looking car. I loved the colour and quite a rare one too with only 15 being sold in the country in Red. This particular one had a decent spec with a heads up display, heated steering wheel, heated rear seats and surround view. It was also the 40d version. Interior quality was very good. Everything felt solid and was functional but it was slightly boring in that the same sort of interior has been used on BMWs for the past decade. There was enough interior space although rear headroom was limited due to its sloping roof line. This car also had the nappa leather which was very nice to the touch.

This particular car was missing tinted windows but this could easily have been sorted. 

The infotainment system was the easiest to use IMO, even on the move and the car itself felt solid on the road.

Driving impressions - This is where the BMW shines. Its a very good handling car. Its not as good as the F-pace but it has an extremely potent 3.0l diesel engine and every time my foot planted the floor, there was a huge smile on my face. Having said that, it fell short in other areas. Whilst wind noise was well suppressed, there was a huge amount of tyre roar from those massive tyres and the engine still sounded slightly gruff despite being a 6 cylinder. Smoothness of the engine however, was exceptional and the torque was very addictive.

Conclusion - I really liked this one. The road noise was a problem but I think the current tyre choice wasn't helping. This was now on the top of my list followed by the XC90 and then the F-pace.

 

Merc GLE

The next vehicle to test was the GLE350d. I'd seen a white one on the road a few weeks earlier and it had huge road presence and is a fairly rare sight so it was on the shortlist. 

Initial impressions - yes, huge road presence from that front end. The vehicle itself is very large. I thought it looked brilliant in white as well. Interior space was not an issue although it had the same problem as the X6 with the rear headroom but it wasn't too bad. Same with the boot, it was bigger than the X6's. 

Interior quality - This is where the Mercedes was let down. The interior is extremely aged. The centre console seems to have been lifted straight from a W204 C class with the addition of a modern screen. Just looks odd in my opinion. This car also had the nappa leather which was nice but the seats were poor in both support and comfort in comparison to the X6 and Volvo.

Driving impressions - The Mercedes felt the most tank like to drive. The way it drove just felt solid - it was genuinely like driving an indestructible behemoth on the road with the added benefit of everyone just moving out of the way. The ride was firm, almost jarring and the handling was rubbish but it was quick in a straight line. Nothing much to say here apart from wind noise was fairly well suppressed but road noise, again due to massive tyres was the biggest thing upsetting the refinement.

 

Lexus NX

This one was tested at my local dealer. Nobody had a Red/Red NX300h with the Premier pack to see or test so it would have been ordered new as it fell within the budget but my dealer had a white/black F-Sport with Premier pack.

Initial impressions - Sharp styling and I liked the DRLs separated from the headlights. Wasn't a huge fan of the rear, felt it looked too upright TBH. Would have liked some larger wheels - 19"s would have done nicely but the diamond finish on the F-Sport was nice.

The interior quality was great. It was closer to a GS than an IS but overall, the interior space was quite compact. It felt more like the IS whereas my 3RX was more open. Rear legroom was similiar to the 3RX but the headroom was reduced slightly, especially with the panoramic sunroof. The quality was definitely better than the F-pace and GLE but not at the same level of the other vehicles which is understandable due to the price tag. 

The tech on this car was amazing - it beat the spec of every other car I'd tested. It had the pan roof, head up display, mark levinson and the surround camera system. It also had the adaptive cruise control etc. The spec was genuinely impressive when equipped with the Premier Pack.

Driving impressions - The NX handled well enough. It was flatter than my RX and rode less firmly. However, road noise and wind noise were certainly more evident, albeit only slightly. The car felt much more agile than my 3RX and didn't exhibit the same bouncy behaviour at the rear axle. I also preferred the size, much more manageable in town than the others that I tested. Having said that, the drivetrain was the weakest link. Whilst adequate in the IS, the NX needs a more powerful engine. It felt slow in almost every situation apart from in town and at low speed. The engine would make itself heard almost all the time when going up hills near where I live so it was a disappointment. If only the 200t was available with the Premier pack - thats what I would have gone for (despite @Linas.P's views on it being trashy ) 

 

Lexus RX

Left the most familiar option to the end so that I could compare it to the rest of them. I was initially looking at the one in Cambridge which was White/Black with Pan roof and HUD. It was also slightly out of my budget. 

Anyway I couldn't be bothered going 130 miles just to test drive it so I had a quick test drive with my local dealers demo - a Black/black F-Sport with pan roof only. 

Initial impressions - Looked impressive. I liked the angles but the black paint didn't work on it as the wheels blended in etc. The first thing I noticed was that the panel gaps were very tight and paintwork, extremely smooth - none of that orange peel stuff you get with the German brands. I also noticed that it demanded a lot of attention from pedestrians - they all seemed to be working out what it actually was! 

The interior quality was great - up there with the Volvo. The weakest link was the infotainment system - more complicated and something you have to learn to use rather than use straight away unlike the Volvo or BMW. The seats deserve a special mention. They fit me like a glove and are very supportive, yet also comfortable. This was an issue on the NX which had narrower seats. The infotainment screen is impressive and the panoramic roof let lots of light into the cabin despite the interior being black. The spec list was great too apart from the absence of the HUD which was fitted as standard to the 3RX F-Sport. It didn't have the ML but this didn't bother me as the standard sound system is as good as the ML in my 3RX.

Driving impressions - It felt familiar to the 3RX but improved in every way. The ride was more composed (non of that rear axle bounciness of the 3RX). Its better than the NX F-Sport in terms of ride comfort and the AVS did a good job. Its firmer than the XC90 but then, it handles better as well. Its not a car which you can throw into bends like the X6 or F-pace but it handles well, better than the 3RX but you always know that the weight is there. Wind noise and road noise is NON EXISTENT! I found myself on the motorway thinking I was doing 60mph, looked down and it was doing 90mph (oops). In terms of the drivetrain, I don't care what the journalists are saying but for me, its great. Its refined all the time, even when flooring it, its relatively quiet compared to the diesels in other brands. There's also nothing that compensates for the V6 burble in the background too. Oh and lets not forget, this drivetrain is very quick in the mid range. 

Conclusion - In the end, it was a fairly simple decision to make. The 4RX has very little in terms of flaws and a part of me knows that it would sell like hotcakes if it had a German badge on it. Through 4 generations (ive owned 3 of them now) its been improved constantly and it shows. Yes, it has some annoying characteristics but overall, as a package, its absolutely brilliant.

 

In the end, I didn't get the car from Lexus Cambridge. I eventually bought from Lexus Cheltenham who had exactly the same spec as Lexus Cambridge but with 1500 more miles and the red leather instead of the black for almost 10% less.

Having said that, Lexus Cheltenham did offer the lowest P/X value from anyone. I was offered £18k for my 3RX whilst BMW, Volvo and Jaguar offered £19.5k. However, my local dealer also offered £18.5k so I think its mainly the book that Lexus dealers use (Ive consistently found they offer the lowest p/x value of any main dealer).

[ISJason]

Hi, it's great to see you have come full circle back to Lexus. Fantastic cars. Nothing beats them.

 

 

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

[ISJason]

 

Hi, it's great to see you have come full circle back to Lexus. Fantastic cars. Nothing beats them.

 

 

 

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

 

[steveledzep]

Excellent summary Rayaan.  Enjoyable and informative read.

[Linas.P]

On 7/4/2017 at 0:50 PM, rayaans said:

... the drivetrain was the weakest link... NX needs a more powerful engine. It felt slow in almost every situation apart from in town and at low speed. The engine would make itself heard almost all the time when going up hills near where I live so it was a disappointment...(despite @Linas.P's views on it being trashy ) 

Now I know people going to say - "ohhh no! Not t this discussion again!" - But sorry, I was invited for it... so shush... 

First of all I haven't tried NX, so I can only comment on isolated topic of engine which I have tried in IS200t. Looking at weights NX is about the same as RC (1780 vs 1795kg), but heavier than IS (1620kg)... in other hand 160kg is equivalent to 2 passengers, so it isn't much. Other point, it depends where that weight is.. on IS and RC is low down, but that only matters in cornering and not acceleration. 

@rayaans - now Rayaan, based on what you said above. If it is not under-powered or trashy.. what it is? Because that is exactly how I would describe experience, but our conclusions are completely opposite. So we both agree on criteria, both mark it the same, but the end result is different?! The point I am trying to make, whenever it is "trashy" or not is really personal judgement and depends on personal "red lines", driving style and description (no that what is important - see below).

So you said it lacks power, doesn't feel fast and engine is audible/noisy where you would not expect it to be (kind of in negative way?). Now, I imagine, you probably driving it very gently and you have these comments. Imagine me trying to get "something" from IS200t with my harsh driving style (I call it "dynamic"), IS250 in such condition would either stay quiet or would produce nice roar, IS200t sounds like "like being trashed".  That is because IT IS BEGIN TRASHED, the difference here is that IS250 is completely compliant and nice even when being trashed, buy IS200t feels like being trashed.

Now lets try to translate what you are saying in language I use:

1. NX needs a more powerful engine = engine is under-powered (somebody said it is fine in RC shape... really?! RC is even heavier)
2. It felt slow in almost every situation .... = sluggish (I know I cut it short... but I simply don't have situations where I driver "at low speeds", so I don't understand the notion)
3. The engine would make itself heard almost all the time = noisy/trashy 

Actually, what I have realised is that all this discussion (in other threads as well) was for nothing. It was not a problem of me wrongly describing things, or having different standard - it was the language I use. Brits are so used to understatements and political correctness that they just cannot understand if somebody is being direct and calls things what they are ... Sorry if anyone got hurt (being sarcastic), but it is probably acceptable considering environment in which I grew-up. You see in our schools tutors would say "you total idiot" whereas in UK acceptable comment would be something like "oh you have your style". 

 

 

 

[dutchie01]

Thanks for this excellent review !   Great piece of reading and for me it could even be longer, more detailed.

I was given a RX450H as a loaner last tuesday when my IS 300H was in for service and boy did that car make an impression. I was a bit unsecure by the sheer size of the thing, it Is BIG, and even after climbing on board that feeling was still there. The first thing i noticed when looking in the rearview mirror was the backseats, space, emptyness and room you can simply throw everything in there kids, friends, bikes, furniture you name it. I spent the day just driving for drivings sake, not needing to go anywhere, thats how much fun the car was. Yes it feels heavy in corners, floats a little in slow traffic and the steering is without a lot of feedback or feel but that silky smooth 6 combined with a much more powerful electric system than in my IS meant fast and effortless propulsion. This is a car that always goes faster than you think, like you mentioned looking on the speedo and thinking, What??

The buildquality ( much higher than my IS), the practicality and above all the correct drivetrain for this car is just the right combination that makes this a winner for me and continues the Lexus feeling i experienced in my IS 250 and lost a bit in my 300.  I am convinced it can turn into a friend of the family hauling everybody around come day or night, protecting all from the bad world outside, whillst at the same time giving lots of driving pleasure. OH that lovely vocal burbling V6 just beat all other 4 pots especially when in dieselform. I am not surprised it sells like hot cakes in the states.

Shame it costs 80k Euro in Holland...

Hapyy motoring Rayaan, great Choice!!    

[dutchie01]

27 minutes ago, Linas.P said:

Now I know people going to say - "ohhh no! Not t this discussion again!" - But sorry, I was invited for it... so shush... 

First of all I haven't tried NX, so I can only comment on isolated topic of engine which I have tried in IS200t. Looking at weights NX is about the same as RC (1780 vs 1795kg), but heavier than IS (1620kg)... in other hand 160kg is equivalent to 2 passengers, so it isn't much. Other point, it depends where that weight is.. on IS and RC is low down, but that only matters in cornering and not acceleration. 

@rayaans - now Rayaan, based on what you said above. If it is not under-powered or trashy.. what it is? Because that is exactly how I would describe experience, but our conclusions are completely opposite. So we both agree on criteria, both mark it the same, but the end result is different?! The point I am trying to make, whenever it is "trashy" or not is really personal judgement and depends on personal "red lines", driving style and description (no that what is important - see below).

So you said it lacks power, doesn't feel fast and engine is audible/noisy where you would not expect it to be (kind of in negative way?). Now, I imagine, you probably driving it very gently and you have these comments. Imagine me trying to get "something" from IS200t with my harsh driving style (I call it "dynamic"), IS250 in such condition would either stay quiet or would produce nice roar, IS200t sounds like "like being trashed".  That is because IT IS BEGIN TRASHED, the difference here is that IS250 is completely compliant and nice even when being trashed, buy IS200t feels like being trashed.

Now lets try to translate what you are saying in language I use:

1. NX needs a more powerful engine = engine is under-powered (somebody said it is fine in RC shape... really?! RC is even heavier)
2. It felt slow in almost every situation .... = sluggish (I know I cut it short... but I simply don't have situations where I driver "at low speeds", so I don't understand the notion)
3. The engine would make itself heard almost all the time = noisy/trashy 

Actually, what I have realised is that all this discussion (in other threads as well) was for nothing. It was not a problem of me wrongly describing things, or having different standard - it was the language I use. Brits are so used to understatements and political correctness that they just cannot understand if somebody is being direct and calls things what they are ... Sorry if anyone got hurt (being sarcastic), but it is probably acceptable considering environment in which I grew-up. You see in our schools tutors would say "you total idiot" whereas in UK acceptable comment would be something like "oh you have your style". 

 

 

 

Hi Linas, you say 160 kg is equivalent to 2 persons so not that much.

I tend to disagree with this. Is it one thrashy person of 70 and one of 90 or 1 of 52 and one of 108. And is the heavier one sitting behind you or not as this will definately effect the handling and i am sure the engineers did not take this in account when developing the car whilst they should! Lexus should have thought of all these scenarios before releasing the car to the public!! 

Then again it could be one noisy person of 160 kg !! have that sitting next to you and see what that does to your performance.

it really is very disappointing and i do not understand why they keep building these cars when they are clearly underdeveloped!

I am planning a testdrive next week with 3 friends of minimum 150kg each and i will post my respons to Lexus Japan directly!! 

 

 

 

 

 

[paulrnx]

Awesome writeup rayaans and, may I say, a good choice. Sharp looking car the current NX. I especially like the detailing behind the side rear window. I have experience of Lexus Cheltenham and they always offer low part-ex prices. Probably a Listers policy I always thought

[Linas.P]

You being so funny aren't you?

One thing I agree with - passengers in the car really makes a difference, even full vs. empty tank (~60kg) makes I difference. If you looks to my post again ... I never said I does not make a difference, I said difference isn't that huge. When it comes to overall dynamic of the car we are talking here about similarly powerful (or in this case underpowered cars), rather than day and night difference - that is what I am trying to say.

Will it affect acceleration, of course... will it affect overall feeling - definitely... by how much? By about as much as having 2 friend in the car. Is that much? - I don't know.. you tell me. When I have 2 friends in my IS250 it seems ok... 

[rayaans]

53 minutes ago, Linas.P said:

Now I know people going to say - "ohhh no! Not t this discussion again!" - But sorry, I was invited for it... so shush... 

First of all I haven't tried NX, so I can only comment on isolated topic of engine which I have tried in IS200t. Looking at weights NX is about the same as RC (1780 vs 1795kg), but heavier than IS (1620kg)... in other hand 160kg is equivalent to 2 passengers, so it isn't much. Other point, it depends where that weight is.. on IS and RC is low down, but that only matters in cornering and not acceleration. 

@rayaans - now Rayaan, based on what you said above. If it is not under-powered or trashy.. what it is? Because that is exactly how I would describe experience, but our conclusions are completely opposite. So we both agree on criteria, both mark it the same, but the end result is different?! The point I am trying to make, whenever it is "trashy" or not is really personal judgement and depends on personal "red lines", driving style and description (no that what is important - see below).

So you said it lacks power, doesn't feel fast and engine is audible/noisy where you would not expect it to be (kind of in negative way?). Now, I imagine, you probably driving it very gently and you have these comments. Imagine me trying to get "something" from IS200t with my harsh driving style (I call it "dynamic"), IS250 in such condition would either stay quiet or would produce nice roar, IS200t sounds like "like being trashed".  That is because IT IS BEGIN TRASHED, the difference here is that IS250 is completely compliant and nice even when being trashed, buy IS200t feels like being trashed.

Now lets try to translate what you are saying in language I use:

1. NX needs a more powerful engine = engine is under-powered (somebody said it is fine in RC shape... really?! RC is even heavier)
2. It felt slow in almost every situation .... = sluggish (I know I cut it short... but I simply don't have situations where I driver "at low speeds", so I don't understand the notion)
3. The engine would make itself heard almost all the time = noisy/trashy 

Actually, what I have realised is that all this discussion (in other threads as well) was for nothing. It was not a problem of me wrongly describing things, or having different standard - it was the language I use. Brits are so used to understatements and political correctness that they just cannot understand if somebody is being direct and calls things what they are ... Sorry if anyone got hurt (being sarcastic), but it is probably acceptable considering environment in which I grew-up. You see in our schools tutors would say "you total idiot" whereas in UK acceptable comment would be something like "oh you have your style". 

 

 

 

Why have you chopped and changed my thread when quoting?

If you read correctly I tested the NX300h which is heavier than the IS300h yet has less power. I was also comparing it directly to my 3RX.

Ive tested an NX200T before and it was not slow. 

Please exit this thread - your comments on the IS200T do not belong here in the RX section

[Linas.P]

2 minutes ago, rayaans said:

Why have you chopped and changed my thread when quoting?

If you read correctly I tested the NX300h which is heavier than the IS300h yet has less power. I was also comparing it directly to my 3RX.

Ive tested an NX200T before and it was not slow. 

Please exit this thread - your comments on the IS200T do not belong here in the RX section

Fair call... I haven't read whole post and only replied to the part you mention me.

In all fairness, from only that paragraph I was under impression you described you experience in 200t - I take my comment away. Though parts in blue still applies. Peace

[dutchie01]

20 minutes ago, Linas.P said:

You being so funny aren't you?

One thing I agree with - passengers in the car really makes a difference, even full vs. empty tank (~60kg) makes I difference. If you looks to my post again ... I never said I does not make a difference, I said difference isn't that huge. When it comes to overall dynamic of the car we are talking here about similarly powerful (or in this case underpowered cars), rather than day and night difference - that is what I am trying to say.

Will it affect acceleration, of course... will it affect overall feeling - definitely... by how much? By about as much as having 2 friend in the car. Is that much? - I don't know.. you tell me. When I have 2 friends in my IS250 it seems ok... 

Oh please please please Linas.....Stop this continuous trolling, you have made your point clear ( 60 times ) thank you now do something else.  

Get you beloved IS250 open all windows and take a nice relaxed drive through the woods, try to get some fresh air....Get a life. 

 

[paulrnx]

14 minutes ago, Linas.P said:

Fair call... I haven't read whole post and only replied to the part you mention me.

In all fairness, from only that paragraph I was under impression you described you experience in 200t - I take my comment away. Though parts in blue still applies. Peace

But then you don't ever read the whole post do you. Hell, sometimes you don't even read the title or the first post

[paulrnx]

29 minutes ago, Linas.P said:

You being so funny aren't you?

One thing I agree with - passengers in the car really makes a difference, even full vs. empty tank (~60kg) makes I difference. If you looks to my post again ... I never said I does not make a difference, I said difference isn't that huge. When it comes to overall dynamic of the car we are talking here about similarly powerful (or in this case underpowered cars), rather than day and night difference - that is what I am trying to say.

Will it affect acceleration, of course... will it affect overall feeling - definitely... by how much? By about as much as having 2 friend in the car. Is that much? - I don't know.. you tell me. When I have 2 friends in my IS250 it seems ok... 

But then yours is a <7.6s 0-60 IS250 so you obviously have a good one. Possibly one of those specials that rolled off the production line. They're quite rare. Absolute legends in the minds of their owners

[Linas.P]

8 minutes ago, paulrnx said:

But then you don't ever read the whole post do you. Hell, sometimes you don't even read the title or the first post

No... that is not true. I read tittle and skimmed though post - because honestly I could not care less about SUVs. What I fixated against was Rayaan linking me "(despite @Linas.P's views on it being trashy ) " an the paragraph around it. That is why I have misunderstood the context.

If I am honest I could have made even more critical post about 300h configuration, comparing RC300h with NX300h.... but I would not come back to this discussion. 

@paulrnx - if you wound not live in village I would invite you to try yourself and bring your thermometer to measure it.

[paulrnx]

Most people would agree that the original post was well written, informative, a good read and pretty objective in the eyes of the person doing the testing. Well everyone apart from Linas.P of course

[Linas.P]

1 minute ago, paulrnx said:

Most people would agree that the original post was well written, informative, a good read and pretty objective in the eyes of the person doing the testing. Well everyone apart from Linas.P of course

I haven't said anything bad about post itself... actually I have liked it - which means I agree it is informative and well written. 

[paulrnx]

1 minute ago, Linas.P said:

No... that is not true. I read tittle and skimmed though post - because honestly I could not care less about SUVs. What I fixated against was Rayaan linking me "(despite @Linas.P's views on it being trashy ) " an the paragraph around it. That is why I have misunderstood the context.

If I am honest I could have made even more critical post about 300h configuration, comparing RC300h with NX300h.... but I would not come back to this discussion. 

Guess the red mist was descending as soon as you saw that comment and it obviously affected your logic. I used to do that a lot when I was 3 years old

[Linas.P]

Just now, paulrnx said:

Guess the red mist was descending as soon as you saw that comment and it obviously affected your logic. I used to do that a lot when I was 3 years old

That was the case indeed. Reading you comments it seems that you were 3 years old not that long ago.

[paulrnx]

1 minute ago, Linas.P said:

I haven't said anything bad about post itself... actually I have liked it - which means I agree it is informative and well written. 

On the other hand, I haven't liked any of your posts because I don't think they are informative and well written

[Linas.P]

Just now, paulrnx said:

On the other hand, I haven't liked any of your posts because I don't think they are informative and well written

You struggling to keep up aren't you? At least in keyboard skills I have an edge... or is that the internet speed? I guess admins would help by locking this topic.... because @rayaans already added all necessary information before we came and there is hardly anything objective or informative to add.

[paulrnx]

Looking forward to further writeups about your time with the new car rayaans. Hope you enjoy it

[dutchie01]

please dont feed the trolls chaps

[chris_fletcher]

So my dilema is....

2017 NX300 Premier or 2016 RX450 Luxury for £3k more. I have an is300 Premier and really like the ML sound system and the blind spot monitor and fear that the Luxury will leave me wanting.

Thoughts welcome

[dutchie01]

take them both for a drive.

i would choose the RX without a drive..