High quality audio input for ML

Britprius · July 2, 2017

I have at last found time to find a simple cheap high quality audio input method for those with Mark Levinson systems.

After much investigation I can now confirm "from my previous post" that the single blue connector with a screened cable on the ML amp is indeed a SPDIF (Sony Phillips digital interface) input. This input is only used for the CD player audio.

Using an analog to digital converter available for around £6 on eBay analog audio from you phone or tablet can be converted into quality digital format. This can be fed into the ML amp in two ways.

The first way is to remove the Blue plug on the ML amp in the boot, and inject the digital signal into the amp, But it would be better to cut the lead, and wire in a switched jack socket. So that when a jack plug is inserted the signal from the CD player is disconnected, and the new signal substituted.

The alternative is to do this at the rear of the radio unit sending the signal down the cable to the rear of the car.

Once connected there must be a CD in the player, and the CD player selected. With the jack plug inserted no sound from the CD player will be played, but the substitute audio will be played. Sound quality is governed purely by the quality of the audio input. Removing the jack will resume normal CD playing.

All the OEM on screen audio controls will still work as does the OEM volume on the radio as these are all controlled within the amp.

Sorry no pictures at the moment, but they will follow with a wiring diagram. This is very simple requiring only the converter and a switched jack socket. There is only one channel input with SPDIF as the stereo signal is digitally encoded. Make sure when buying the converter it is an A to D (analog to digital) not a D to A (digital to analog) the D to A being much more common. The converter is about 2.5 x 2 x 1 inches, and has SPDIF, and optical outputs.

John.

Big Rat · July 2, 2017

2 hours ago, Britprius said:

I have at last found time to find a simple cheap high quality audio input method for those with Mark Levinson systems.

After much investigation I can now confirm "from my previous post" that the single blue connector with a screened cable on the ML amp is indeed a SPDIF (Sony Phillips digital interface) input. This input is only used for the CD player audio.

Using an analog to digital converter available for around £6 on Ebay analog audio from you phone or tablet can be converted into quality digital format. This can be fed into the ML amp in two ways.

The first way is to remove the Blue plug on the ML amp in the boot, and inject the digital signal into the amp, But it would be better to cut the lead, and wire in a switched jack socket. So that when a jack plug is inserted the signal from the CD player is disconnected, and the new signal substituted.

The alternative is to do this at the rear of the radio unit sending the signal down the cable to the rear of the car.

Once connected there must be a CD in the player, and the CD player selected. With the jack plug inserted no sound from the CD player will be played, but the substitute audio will be played. Sound quality is governed purely by the quality of the audio input. Removing the jack will resume normal CD playing.

All the OEM on screen audio controls will still work as does the OEM volume on the radio as these are all controlled within the amp.

Sorry no pictures at the moment, but they will follow with a wiring diagram. This is very simple requiring only the converter and a switched jack socket. There is only one channel input with SPDIF as the stereo signal is digitally encoded. Make sure when buying the converter it is an A to D (analog to digital) not a D to A (digital to analog) the D to A being much more common. The converter is about 2.5 x 2 x 1 inches, and has SPDIF, and optical outputs.

John.

@Britprius 'Sounds' interesting John - sorry couldn't resist the pun, look forward to seeing the pics always best to have a visual aid for those of us who are are somewhat techie wanting !

Got a mate who can sort this for me as and when you've finalised your research - well done.

Big Rat

royoftherovers · July 2, 2017

3 hours ago, Britprius said:

I have at last found time to find a simple cheap high quality audio input method for those with Mark Levinson systems.

After much investigation I can now confirm "from my previous post" that the single blue connector with a screened cable on the ML amp is indeed a SPDIF (Sony Phillips digital interface) input. This input is only used for the CD player audio.

Using an analog to digital converter available for around £6 on Ebay analog audio from you phone or tablet can be converted into quality digital format. This can be fed into the ML amp in two ways.

The first way is to remove the Blue plug on the ML amp in the boot, and inject the digital signal into the amp, But it would be better to cut the lead, and wire in a switched jack socket. So that when a jack plug is inserted the signal from the CD player is disconnected, and the new signal substituted.

The alternative is to do this at the rear of the radio unit sending the signal down the cable to the rear of the car.

Once connected there must be a CD in the player, and the CD player selected. With the jack plug inserted no sound from the CD player will be played, but the substitute audio will be played. Sound quality is governed purely by the quality of the audio input. Removing the jack will resume normal CD playing.

All the OEM on screen audio controls will still work as does the OEM volume on the radio as these are all controlled within the amp.

Sorry no pictures at the moment, but they will follow with a wiring diagram. This is very simple requiring only the converter and a switched jack socket. There is only one channel input with SPDIF as the stereo signal is digitally encoded. Make sure when buying the converter it is an A to D (analog to digital) not a D to A (digital to analog) the D to A being much more common. The converter is about 2.5 x 2 x 1 inches, and has SPDIF, and optical outputs.

John.

John, Many thanks

.You have so much to offer this Forum .It is a pleasure to read your contributions which I am sure are of immense benefit to all Members.

I have just pencilled you in to my World X1 TO PLAY MARS. :):):)

Regards

John

Hangie · July 2, 2017

There is no usb port in pre facelift modele ?

i normalny use Bluetooth streaming which is good enough for me but there is also CD or USB to choose from.

Britprius · July 3, 2017

11 hours ago, Hangie said:

There is no usb port in pre facelift modele ?

i normalny use Bluetooth streaming which is good enough for me but there is also CD or USB to choose from.

In the 2007 models and earlier there is no audio, blue tooth, or USB input. The only alternative was a tape player adapter or an adapter costing around £70.

John.

Hangie · July 3, 2017

Tape player got horrible quality so then your finding is a really nice one!

ds001 · July 3, 2017

Hi John,

I bought a 2007 model 450h at the weekend and spent quite a while trying to figure out how to get music from my phone to play. I was looking at a few solutions but they seemed to work by replacing the CD changer so I wasn't even sure that was even possible.

So, I couldn't believe my luck when I saw this thread, looking forward to seeing your pictures and wiring diagram!

cheers

Andy

Zotto · July 3, 2017

2 hours ago, Britprius said:

In the 2007 models and earlier there is no audio, blue tooth, or USB input. The only alternative was a tape player adapter or an adapter costing around £70.

John.

In my previous 450h I used a BT audio receiver with output connected to aux input to send audio from a cell/tablet. Better than tape player adapter.

ds001 · July 3, 2017

14 minutes ago, Zotto said:

In my previous 450h I used a BT audio receiver with output connected to aux input to send audio from a cell/tablet. Better than tape player adapter.

Is there an aux input on the 2007 model with ML stereo, I looked and couldn't find one, maybe it is at the back of the stereo ??

Farqui · July 3, 2017

From 2008 theres a phono jack in the back of the center console.

I don't think the earlier version had an easy option to hook up AUX. So folks either use a transmitter or a modified tape deck feed.

Update: ah, I see John replied with this earlier...

Linas.P · July 3, 2017

21 hours ago, Britprius said:

Using an analog to digital converter available for around £6 on Ebay analog audio from you phone or tablet can be converted into quality digital format. This can be fed into the ML amp in two ways.

Wouldn't it be better using something like this for end-to-end digital?

https://www.tomtop.com/toslink-optical-cables-adapters-1344/p-v2728.html?currency=GBP&aid=gplagb&gclid=EAIaIQobChMIg8qD9ont1AIVRRwbCh0F1wGREAQYAyABEgJi-fD_BwE

Because, I feel like using 3.5mm or coax would limit any benefits (if any) of using SPDIF, because your audio will go Digital (out from questionable quality phone amp)>Analog (via questionable cable)>Digital (via questionable £6 converted from eBay).

In above option it will go Digital via BT (most of new mobile devices would have like BT4+A2DP) > still questionable quality receiver (though I am sure it is possible to find high quality BT receiver), but this time it doesn't need to convert anything > into digital interface.

Does it make sense?

Other option is USB to SPDIF interface, again end-to-end digital. Though they might be pricey.

Finally, I don't really have issues with 3.5mm quality, especially considering my source is usually low quality mp3, the question is how to make audio controls on steering wheel/console to control your source device?

Britprius · July 3, 2017

My effort was to find an easy cheap method of adding a good quality audio input on pre 2008 vehicles that do not have an audio input socket. In my last car a 2008 Prius there was an audio input on the JBL sound system, but that is all it was just an aux audio input.

Finding, and a method inputting audio without resorting to tape adapter "that I have" or a transmitter at a realistic price was therefore my aim.

I agree control of an MP3 player from the steering wheel would be nice, and there are units capable of this but this would come at at leased 10x the cost and still use analog audio as the input.

I do realise that a Bluetooth system could also be input, but this raises costs considerably with little advantage. All of the existing audio touch screen controls work as does the volume control from the steering wheel with the method I am using.

Up until now I have not come across any information that even suggests there was an SPDIF input on the ML system, and no information on how to access this input.

John.

Britprius · July 3, 2017

4 hours ago, ds001 said:

Is there an aux input on the 2007 model with ML stereo, I looked and couldn't find one, maybe it is at the back of the stereo ??

There is no aux input on pre 2008 ML system cars even on the rear of the radio unit. People have resorted to opening up the radios and connecting input wires to the tape heads.

John.

Britprius · July 3, 2017

6 hours ago, Linas.P said:

Wouldn't it be better using something like this for end-to-end digital?

https://www.tomtop.com/toslink-optical-cables-adapters-1344/p-v2728.html?currency=GBP&aid=gplagb&gclid=EAIaIQobChMIg8qD9ont1AIVRRwbCh0F1wGREAQYAyABEgJi-fD_BwE

Because, I feel like using 3.5mm or coax would limit any benefits (if any) of using SPDIF, because your audio will go Digital (out from questionable quality phone amp)>Analog (via questionable cable)>Digital (via questionable £6 converted from eBay).

In above option it will go Digital via BT (most of new mobile devices would have like BT4+A2DP) > still questionable quality receiver (though I am sure it is possible to find high quality BT receiver), but this time it doesn't need to convert anything > into digital interface.

Does it make sense?

Other option is USB to SPDIF interface, again end-to-end digital. Though they might be pricey.

Finally, I don't really have issues with 3.5mm quality, especially considering my source is usually low quality mp3, the question is how to make audio controls on steering wheel/console to control your source device?

This is where the confusion arises. The item you link to is a D to A converter or D to blue tooth. It will not convert to SPDIF.

John.

Linas.P · July 3, 2017

Ok... sorry, you probably right. As well it is transmitter and not receiver. But I am sure there are receivers as well - I just posted something to illustrate my point. Do you agree with my overall point that converting signal from digital to analog and back, using questionable converters negates the purpose?

Britprius · July 3, 2017

1 hour ago, Linas.P said:

Ok... sorry, you probably right. As well it is transmitter and not receiver. But I am sure there are receivers as well - I just posted something to illustrate my point. Do you agree with my overall point that converting signal from digital to analog and back, using questionable converters negates the purpose?

Actually the converter uses a very good chip to do the converting. I will not go to far into the method of conversion, but the quality depends on something called the sampling rate which is very high in the available units of which there are few. If you search for A to D converters you will get a string of D to A converter ads.

I agree it would be better not to have to convert, If all you have is an analog input device you either stick with analog and try to input that. Messy at best with the ML radio and amp. Or you convert to digital using the CD quality part of the amp and it's controls including the graphic equaliser.

John.

truckermal · July 4, 2017

Hi Guys my GS 300 only has the Lexus premium sound system and not ML, I purchased a cable that was supposed to plug into the rear of the CD changer to give me a Aux in cable..

The cable wouldn't fit the socket on the CD changer so I'm back to square one, is there any alternative to adding my own Aux in cable?

Britprius · July 4, 2017

About the only methods I know is either a tape adapter or an FM transmitter. Neither are perfect, but the tape adapter is reasonable. Problems I found are at higher volumes from the audio source the tape heads become saturated distorting the base. Turning the source volume down and the player volume up produces noticeable buzzing from the tape player motor in the audio.

If I had a radio unit to work on I could probably come up with a solution, but I have the ML system.

John.

truckermal · July 15, 2017

Will a ML unit from a 450h work in my GS 300?

Britprius · July 16, 2017

On 7/15/2017 at 4:55 PM, truckermal said:

Will a ML unit from a 450h work in my GS 300?

Simple answer yes, but do not expect it to be a straight plug in conversion. You will need the head unit, the amp, more speakers, and the wiring loom. The amp fits in the right hand side of the boot in the space taken by the Battery on the left hand side.

John