Anyone switched from ISF to GS450h?

Flytvr · June 27, 2017

I was chatting to another member the other day, and the subject of real world performance came up - the ability to use the ISFs performance on today's busy roads etc. This lead onto a discussion about the Lexus GS450h (current shape).

anyone own one / driven one? How do you find it?

emjay82 · June 27, 2017

Very interested to hear if anyone's made the switch and general thoughts on the GS450h.

wendle · June 27, 2017

I went from a MK4 GS450h f sport to a RC-F

the GS was a very nice car and in my option was a wolf in sheeps clothing.

i only changed to the RC because I didn't need 4 doors and wanted a smaller car, as it turns out I think th RC is just as wide but a bit shorter.

what I liked about the GS was the active suspension in normal mode it drove smoothly then when you put it in sports or sport plus things tightened up. The ride was then quite ferm, but at least you have the option which the RC hasn't, hence the change th the LC.

the only thing was the CVT on the GS which was not a problem for me but this was the main complaint from reviewers.

if I needed to go back to a 4 door car then the GS 450h would be my first choice.

NemesisUK · June 27, 2017

The current model RC-F does have active suspension, bringing it in line with the RC-F Sport.

I believe the RC-F gets a 39 step adjustability, compared with the RC-F Sport's 9 step.

mrfunex · June 27, 2017

I went from a 3rd gen GS450h to an ISF...

GS was probably faster in many situations. The 370(?)bhp available nearly instantly and the acceleration on the motorway was stunning. The ISF is more nimble and faster only once wound up above 4-5000rpm... Both are great cars, ISF has more 'character' though, imo.

I'd buy my old GS back in a heartbeat and own both if I could!

rayaans · June 27, 2017

16 minutes ago, NemesisUK said:

The current model RC-F does have active suspension, bringing it in line with the RC-F Sport.

I believe the RC-F gets a 39 step adjustability, compared with the RC-F Sport's 9 step.

The change was for the 66 plate vehicles onwards

Chris bought his car when it first came out so wouldn't have had it

would be interesting to see the difference it makes though - Ive only ever driven one without and it was a tad firmer than I would have liked for town use but nigh on perfect for spirited driving

Flytvr · June 27, 2017

Thanks for all the comments guys.

I really am tempted to swap out the ISF.

Big Rat · June 27, 2017

@Flytvr Don't bother they won't have you over on their forum, anyway you will miss my sense of humour 😊

🐀

Corrado · June 27, 2017

The reviewers are right about the gearbox imho. CVT gearboxes in general are dire so make sure you're ok with the gearbox if you're considering switching.

NemesisUK · June 27, 2017

43 minutes ago, Corrado said:

The reviewers are right about the gearbox imho. CVT gearboxes in general are dire so make sure you're ok with the gearbox if you're considering switching.

Define dire...

IMHO the e-CVT gearbox in my RC is a remarkably mechanically 'simple' solution to getting energy from the generators (be it ICE or electric) to the wheels. There is no meshing and separating of cogs, as in a manual 'box. There are no clutches and brake bands to wear out, as in a conventional automatic 'box. They are also remarkably compact and maintenance free.

Using clever computer control, constantly engaged, spinning cogs can generate infinitely variable ratios,giving seamlessly smooth acceleration. Switch to Sport mode and it can also create defined, stepped gearing, giving the illusion or a conventional 'box be it manual or automatic. Engine revs rise and fall, just as they do in conventional drive trains. I can select gears which 'change' instantly, faster than any other 'box.

I really love using, or not using depending on my mood, the e-CVT gearbox. All the advantages of both manual and automatic boxes, without the drawbacks.

Linas.P · June 28, 2017

2 hours ago, NemesisUK said:

Define dire...

IMHO the e-CVT gearbox in my RC is a remarkably mechanically 'simple' solution to getting energy from the generators

Unlikely, supporter here... but if anything I did not have any complaints about is e-CTV in RC300h, one of the very few aspects of the cars which I can genuinely compliment for. I am certain in 450h it tastes even better... and I stop here (because my next point is - why on earth 450h is not an option on RC!).

Flytvr · June 28, 2017

3 hours ago, Linas.P said:

Unlikely, supporter here... but if anything I did not have any complaints about is e-CTV in RC300h, one of the very few aspects of the cars which I can genuinely compliment for. I am certain in 450h it tastes even better... and I stop here (because my next point is - why on earth 450h is not an option on RC!).

I totally agree RC450H

NemesisUK · June 28, 2017

Ditto ....

Big Rat · June 28, 2017

9 hours ago, Corrado said:

The reviewers are right about the gearbox imho. CVT gearboxes in general are dire so make sure you're ok with the gearbox if you're considering switching.

@Corrado Very valid point CVT boxes are not for everybody prefer a proper auto myself.

Big Rat

Chris111 · June 28, 2017

7 hours ago, Linas.P said:

why on earth 450h is not an option on RC!)

3 hours ago, Flytvr said:

I totally agree RC450H

3 hours ago, NemesisUK said:

Ditto ....

I started a thread on this in the General Discussions forum earlier this month asking why there is no 450h version of the RC. Rayann replied stating there is no demand. However, three on this thread also ask the question and I believe there would be demand as there maybe potential buyers (both UK and Europe) out there who like the look of the RC but can't afford the F version but would want one that offers a bit more performance than the 300h or 200t.

Linas.P · June 28, 2017

1 hour ago, Big Rat said:

@Corrado Very valid point CVT boxes are not for everybody prefer a proper auto myself.

Big Rat

I guess the comparison between CVTs (like GS mk3 and CT) and e-CTVs (GS mk4, RC) is necessary as well. Older boxes had "rubber banding" effect and felt strange, so Lexus added steps in e-CVT to mimic real gears. So that is where my compliments come from.

When changing steps it feels "quite mechanical" and changes are instant, literally like in computer game. No auto can downshift like that and it does engine brake as well. upshift is somewhat not as good and still little bit strange... but hey - if best possible acceleration is what you after CVT is the best thing and it best performs in auto without your interference (which is I guess is the problem - box is so good in doing what it does, that driver feels unnecessary and useless).

19 minutes ago, Chris111 said:

I started a thread on this in the General Discussions forum earlier this month asking why there is no 450h version of the RC. Rayann replied stating there is no demand. However, three on this thread also ask the question and I believe there would be demand as there maybe potential buyers (both UK and Europe) out there who like the look of the RC but can't afford the F version but would want one that offers a bit more performance than the 300h or 200t.

I disagree with @rayaans on this one. I myself have stated many times that it makes no sense that RC350 or RC450h are not options in UK (latter not an option at all). This is more the case as of Lexus trying to get away with the least necessary to lure undiscerning customers as stated by @Rabbers in the other thread:

"why should Lexus want to engineer a better car than the RC300h when they can so easily con an undiscerning customer like me into buying the present bad one"

Exactly that - 300h is cheaper to manufacture than 450h, in fact RC is cheaper to manufacture than GS, so Lexus is playing "looks" card and tries to get away with it. I personally found it unacceptable that RC being more expensive than GS is so much worse equipped (both standard and optional equipment) and has worse engine options.

Big Rat · June 28, 2017

@Linas.P I've driven the older types of CVT and they are not for me the more modern boxes I'd need an extended period of time to see if it suited my style of driving, there are some on here who would describe me as unnecessary and useless but I've got broad shoulders 😂

Big Rat

Linas.P · June 28, 2017

Just now, Big Rat said:

@Linas.P I've driven the older types of CVT and they are not for me the more modern boxes I'd need an extended period of time to see if it suited my style of driving, there are some on here who would describe me as unnecessary and useless but I've got broad shoulders 😂

Big Rat

That is my point CVT and e-CVT are not the same. Lexus tried to fix specifically the concerns you mentioned with e-CVT, so I guess it is worth time testing.

Corrado · June 28, 2017

11 hours ago, NemesisUK said:

Define dire...

IMHO the e-CVT gearbox in my RC is a remarkably mechanically 'simple' solution to getting energy from the generators (be it ICE or electric) to the wheels. There is no meshing and separating of cogs, as in a manual 'box. There are no clutches and brake bands to wear out, as in a conventional automatic 'box. They are also remarkably compact and maintenance free.

Using clever computer control, constantly engaged, spinning cogs can generate infinitely variable ratios,giving seamlessly smooth acceleration. Switch to Sport mode and it can also create defined, stepped gearing, giving the illusion or a conventional 'box be it manual or automatic. Engine revs rise and fall, just as they do in conventional drive trains. I can select gears which 'change' instantly, faster than any other 'box.

I really love using, or not using depending on my mood, the e-CVT gearbox. All the advantages of both manual and automatic boxes, without the drawbacks.

The gearboxes in the RC300h and GS450h aren't quite the same though, are they?

I'm sure the RC's e-CVT is at least one generation newer and given the "illusion" of a conventional transmission sounds much more acceptable.

ETA - I didn't know the GS450h also had an earlier form of e-CVT though. Thanks @Linas.P

Linas.P · June 28, 2017

Just now, Corrado said:

The gearboxes in the RC300h and GS450h aren't quite the same though, are they?

I'm sure the RC's e-CVT is at least one generation newer and given the "illusion" of a conventional transmission sounds much more acceptable.

As stated GS450h mk3 has CVT, whereas GS450h mk4 should have similar or even the same unit as RC300h e-CVT

rayaans · June 28, 2017

I have had no issues with the e-CVTs in any Lexus vehicle to date. Yes the older ones had a feeling that I can only describe as being somewhat lazy but the one on the latest GS, RX and IS are very smooth

Corrado · June 28, 2017

17 minutes ago, Linas.P said:

That is my point CVT and e-CVT are not the same. Lexus tried to fix specifically the concerns you mentioned with e-CVT, so I guess it is worth time testing.

Agree with both @Big Rat whose concerns with older CVTs I share and with @Linas.P that I'd need to drive one of the new e-CVT equipped cars 😀

Corrado · June 28, 2017

4 minutes ago, Linas.P said:

As stated GS450h mk3 has CVT, whereas GS450h mk4 should have similar or even the same unit as RC300h e-CVT

Similar I guess - L110 gearbox in 2012 onwards GS450h and L210 in 2016 onwards RC300h. Maybe it is the same generation of gearbox then.

NemesisUK · June 28, 2017

5 minutes ago, Corrado said:

The gearboxes in the RC300h and GS450h aren't quite the same though, are they?

I'm sure the RC's e-CVT is at least one generation newer and given the "illusion" of a conventional transmission sounds much more acceptable.

Quite probably, the point I was making is that one cannot just dismiss the CVT type of transmission as dire.

The flaring some complain about when accelerating with a CVT 'box, or at least the e-CVT version, is simply the computer dropping a 'gear' or two to bring the ICE into it's power range. Unless in Sport mode there would be no step to define the changes, it's seamless.

There's certainly no rubber-band effect, I'm old enough to remember the Daf-matic ...

Big Rat · June 28, 2017

22 minutes ago, Linas.P said:

That is my point CVT and e-CVT are not the same. Lexus tried to fix specifically the concerns you mentioned with e-CVT, so I guess it is worth time testing.

@Linas.P I agree The Rat's 'F' is going for an mot in the morning I'll see what I can wrangle 😉

🐀