Lexus dropping 2.0T for U.K.

noby76 · July 5, 2017

you can have an LS460/600h for 7 series money real not RRP

talaipwros · July 5, 2017

Just now, noby76 said:

you can have an LS460 for real not RRP

apologies, I missed this point

Linas.P · July 5, 2017

2 minutes ago, paulrnx said:

You must have one of those special IS250 cars than do low 7s to 60. That would figure. Linas.P has one too

Yes... and tens of thousands other owners, worldwide. In fact you had 2 yourself. I am starting to suspect right foot dysfunction for you...

talaipwros · July 5, 2017

3 minutes ago, noby76 said:

you can have an LS460/600h for 7 series money real not RRP

a thanks. yes, but BMW does significant discounts and 0%PCP that in Net Present Value reduces the price even further. I have made this complaint to Lexus before. in USA Lexus is less expensive than the comparable BMW. Here it is surprisingly more expensive. As I have said in a another thread, lexus CT is a bargain in the Lexus range - hence I got this one for my wife -. The rest of the range is not as competetively priced.

Still beautiful vehicles, but a bit overpriced

Linas.P · July 5, 2017

1 hour ago, paulrnx said:

As someone who owned an IS200t for about 5 months and did about 10k miles, I got to know this engine.

It is powerful and feels fast in an IS. I've had a 5 litre V8 XF (385BHP) and two 3 litre twin turbo diesel S XFs, all below 6s to 60, the V8 in 5.5s, and I never felt short of go in my IS200t. I'm not saying it was as quick as these cars, just that it felt rapid. Certainly more so than any IS I've driven apart from of course an ISF.

It is however disappointingly uneconomical. I got the same figures, 32-34 in normal driving as I did in a previous 3rd gen IS250 F-Sport. Not a great sound in comparison with an IS250 either but perfectly ok judged in isolation.

The other disappointment of the IS200t was the lack of zing in the engine. It just didn't seem to rev that quickly in comparison with other 4 pot 2 litre turbos - I've driven Golf GTIs and owned an A5 Coupe 211 TFSI and they all rev so much quicker and are faster as a result of it. Just driven a current model 328i and this is also quite a bit nicer than an IS200t.

If Lexus took a bit of inertia out of the engine and made it more economical I think it would have sold in many more numbers. But then they wouldn't sell so many hybrids. I think they missed a trick to be honest.

Oh and the supposed direct shift gearbox was pretty horrible but I learned to drive around the worst shifts by feathering the throttle. From memory, the 3rd to 2nd shift, be it manually initiated or auto initiated, was simply not good enough in a modern car.

All in all though, I enjoyed the car way more than any Lexus hybrid I've owned. But that's probably because I've never owned a 450h!

Just to point out - this post from person who has suspected right foot dysfunction makes perfect sense and is worth liking. However, given what he have said himself I do not understand why he is disagreeing we me so much? Actually, he even contradicts himself in the same post and elsewhere!

noby76 · July 5, 2017

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W4fp84uB6PA

I am not in anyway promoting street racing but if the IS250 could not pull away from my old IS300 (210bhp) which i think was underrated what makes you think it woud match the 245 bhp 200T

Linas.P · July 5, 2017

16 minutes ago, noby76 said:

I am not in anyway promoting street racing but if the IS250 could not pull away from my old IS300 (210bhp) which i think was underrated what makes you think it woud match the 245 bhp 200T

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W4fp84uB6PA

I suggest you read your own post again, because it doesn't make much sense.

IS300mk1 was 1490kg and had more power (217hp) - whereas IS250 was 100kg heavier and had less power (204hp). So to sum-up you comparing lighter and more powerful car with heavier car and trying to make sense out of it. IS300 had official time of 7.5s 0-60... I don't know what was real, but based on pure physics it was faster than IS250.

That as well makes sense in line-up which superseded mk1. IS200 was replaced by IS250, whereas IS300 was replaced by IS350.

Now in terms of IS250 vs IS200t... mk3 is heavier and it seems 8-speed auto is a bit confused from stand still... all in all making IS200t just a bit faster. But that is "a bit..." and not "IS250 would not know which way IS200t went from any gear".. - that is not true.

paulrnx · July 5, 2017

7 minutes ago, Linas.P said:

Just to point out - this post from person who has suspected right foot dysfunction makes perfect sense and is worth liking. However, given what you have said yourself I do not understand why you disagreeing we me so much? Actually, you even contradicting yourself!

Sorry, I don't understand what you've just written here

Linas.P · July 5, 2017

13 minutes ago, paulrnx said:

Sorry, I don't understand what you've just written here

How about this?

Quote

Just to point out - this post from person who has suspected right foot dysfunction makes perfect sense and is worth liking. However, given what he have said himself I do not understand why he is disagreeing we me so much? Actually, he even contradicts himself in the same post and elsewhere!

paulrnx · July 5, 2017

Just now, Linas.P said:

How about this?

Same words so I still don't understand what you've written. Try some different words and then read it back to make sure you understand it yourself before posting it

Linas.P · July 5, 2017

Just now, paulrnx said:

Same words so I still don't understand what you've written. Try some different words and then read it back to make sure you understand it yourself before posting it

Maybe you have more than just a foot dysfunction after all. Somewhat not surprising if you are trying to deny entire internet stating IS250 is ~7.6 0-62MPH.

paulrnx · July 5, 2017

Just now, Linas.P said:

Maybe you have more than just a foot dysfunction after all. Somewhat not surprising if you are trying to deny entire internet stating IS250 is ~7.6 0-62MPH.

No, sorry, you've said something completely different this time. I wanted to know what you meant when you said "Just to point out - this post from person who has suspected right foot dysfunction makes perfect sense and is worth liking. However, given what he have said himself I do not understand why he disagreeing we me so much? Actually, he even contradicts himself in the same post and elsewhere!"

I've looked up right foot dysfunction and I can't find it. I guess it's in the same place on the internet that your <7.6s 0-60 IS250 is. I also wondered who believes I have this suspected affliction and whether I should get it checked out. I also wondered where I'd been contradicting myself. It's quite possible that I have but I'm not aware of it tonight. Certainly we have disagreed on things but then that is what makes the world such a great place. Is there anyone else on the internet that disagrees with you? I think I'll stop here but I'm fairly sure you'll find some more who disagree with you so I'll leave you to put them right. It's been fun tonight.

Linas.P · July 5, 2017

3 minutes ago, paulrnx said:

Certainly we have disagreed on things but then that is what makes the world such a great place.

True wisdom - cannot agree more!

3 minutes ago, paulrnx said:

Is there anyone else on the internet that disagrees with you? I think I'll stop here but I'm fairly sure you'll find some more who disagree with you so I'll leave you to put them right.

Bring it on - more = better!

3 minutes ago, paulrnx said:

I've looked up right foot dysfunction and I can't find it. I guess it's in the same place on the internet that your <7.6s 0-60 IS250 is.

That explains it all, if you not going to find how to cure right foot dysfunction, you will never going to be able to do 7.6s 0-62 in IS250.

Linas.P · July 5, 2017

49 minutes ago, noby76 said:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W4fp84uB6PA

I am not in anyway promoting street racing but if the IS250 could not pull away from my old IS300 (210bhp) which i think was underrated what makes you think it woud match the 245 bhp 200T

Sorry... just watched the video now... and your comparison is even worse. So they not "comparing" mk2 IS250 with mk1 IS300. They actually "comparing" mk3 IS250, which is even heavier than mk2 (and therefore slower) with mk1 modified IS300. But problem doesn't end here - mk3 IS250 actually pulls away against all odds. There is 3rd level of pointlessness in the video... because they are doing rolling start, but completely fudges everything and starts in different times... mess all around. And there is 4th point of pointlessness in the video - mk1 IS300 is manual (and the guy really does poor job changing gears) and mk3 IS250 is automatic... + side point - from the sounds it seems mk1 IS300 has lost some parts or something significant has broken...

Anyway.... that was long winded way to say that video is completely pointless and not representative of anything, because it compares bananas with oranges (not even apples, because those are at least both round).

noby76 · July 5, 2017

seriously just hush..how heavy is MK2 250 TO MK3 250? REGARDLESS of how you try and analyse it the 2.0 Turbo engine is better in performance terms compared to the V6. you can go on and on about trashy sound here and there still will not change that fact..period.

peachy · July 5, 2017

3 minutes ago, noby76 said:

seriously just hush..how heavy is MK2 250 TO MK3 250? REGARDLESS of how you try and analyse it the 2.0 Turbo engine is better in performance terms compared to the V6. you can go on and on about trashy sound here and there still will not change that fact..period.

250 is still a far superior car though despite being SLIGHTLY slower.

The 250 was never supposed to be a performance car unlike the 200t that simply isn't quick enough for its class.

People buying 2 litre turbo vehicles are looking for quick acceleration and power.

The 200t simply does not deliver. Nobody wants to buy it in the uk and that's why lexus have give it neck.

Shahpor · July 5, 2017

Why do I get the feeling you two aren't going to be best friends?

So, from what I understand, Linas doesn't like the engine fitted to the 200t. On the other hand, John doesn't quite believe the performance claims of the IS250.

If this is indeed the case, may I humbly suggest that you agree to disagree and accept the fact that nothing good will come from further conversation on these topics?

Of course, we know who the real culprit is here..... @Big Rat for bringing up such a dangerous topic of conversation!

Big Rat · July 6, 2017

7 hours ago, Shahpor said:

Why do I get the feeling you two aren't going to be best friends?

So, from what I understand, Linas doesn't like the engine fitted to the 200t. On the other hand, John doesn't quite believe the performance claims of the IS250.

If this is indeed the case, may I humbly suggest that you agree to disagree and accept the fact that nothing good will come from further conversation on these topics?

Of course, we know who the real culprit is here..... @Big Rat for bringing up such a dangerous topic of conversation!

@Shahpor Yes I know Shahpor just what have I done and everybody knows that 'Rats' are such lovable creatures 😂

🐀

Casa1862 · July 6, 2017

11 hours ago, peachy said:

250 is still a far superior car though despite being SLIGHTLY slower.

10 year old POS but nothing can touch it!!

Linas.P and Peachy

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kwsBV2EgJ-E

rayaans · July 6, 2017

11 hours ago, peachy said:

250 is still a far superior car though despite being SLIGHTLY slower.

The 250 was never supposed to be a performance car unlike the 200t that simply isn't quick enough for its class.

People buying 2 litre turbo vehicles are looking for quick acceleration and power.

The 200t simply does not deliver. Nobody wants to buy it in the uk and that's why lexus have give it neck.

Actually no, you've missed the point.

The 200t came out for the simple reason that is called "The U.S of A" where they needed a decent base engine for the IS range which provided better fuel economy, and more power but not enough to tread on the toes of the IS350

People buying 2.0l turbos are not looking for "quick acceleration and power" - they'd go V6 or V8 for that in a mid size saloon.

The 200t does not sell in the UK because of how the tax system worked and simply because there is a hybrid model in the range.

Back when there was a 2nd gen IS - if a hybrid was available would the IS250 have sold? No chance.

Linas.P · July 6, 2017

52 minutes ago, rayaans said:

Actually no, you've missed the point.

The 200t came out for the simple reason that is called "The U.S of A" where they needed a decent base engine for the IS range which provided better fuel economy, and more power but not enough to tread on the toes of the IS350

People buying 2.0l turbos are not looking for "quick acceleration and power" - they'd go V6 or V8 for that in a mid size saloon.

The 200t does not sell in the UK because of how the tax system worked and simply because there is a hybrid model in the range.

Back when there was a 2nd gen IS - if a hybrid was available would the IS250 have sold? No chance.

From when people care about fuel economy in US?

And again we are going in circles - you just basically said same thing just in different way... as I was telling for long time. Lexus UK range is not good. Because they have IS/RC350 in US 2.0t makes perfect sense and I agree that is was deliberately designed not to be competitor to 3.5v6. But here in UK we don't have 3.5 v6 and 2.0t doesn't make sense on it's own.

If during the days of mk2 there would have been hybrid it would have killed IS220d, not IS250. Clearly back then hybrid tech would have sucked ... unless Lexus would have committed themselves to IS450h

rayaans · July 6, 2017

28 minutes ago, Linas.P said:

From when people care about fuel economy in US?

And again we are going in circles - you just basically said same thing just in different way... as I was telling for long time. Lexus UK range is not good. Because they have IS/RC350 in US 2.0t makes perfect sense and I agree that is was deliberately designed not to be competitor to 3.5v6. But here in UK we don't have 3.5 v6 and 2.0t doesn't make sense on it's own.

If during the days of mk2 there would have been hybrid it would have killed IS220d, not IS250. Clearly back then hybrid tech would have sucked ... unless Lexus would have committed themselves to IS450h

More people are edging towards more fuel efficient cars - hence the rise of diesel in the US

an MK2 hybrid would have ensured there was no IS220d and would have killed off the IS250 earlier. Remember that the RX400h came out in 2005 - a great hybrid system in its own right.

Martin F · July 6, 2017

1 hour ago, rayaans said:

Back when there was a 2nd gen IS - if a hybrid was available would the IS250 have sold? No chance.

This is confirmed, because look at the original launch of the third gen IS, the sales of IS250 were nearly non-existant with most people choosing the Hybrid model.

UK250 · July 6, 2017

20 hours ago, peachy said:

250 is still a far superior car though despite being SLIGHTLY slower.

The 250 was never supposed to be a performance car unlike the 200t that simply isn't quick enough for its class.

People buying 2 litre turbo vehicles are looking for quick acceleration and power.

The 200t simply does not deliver. Nobody wants to buy it in the uk and that's why lexus have give it neck.

Interesting to see what car you are comparing the 200t to, as there are 2.0 petrol saloon cars despite being turbocharged arent as quick as the 200t say Merc C200 185bhp 0-62 = 7.3ish..... for a C-class slightly quicker / more power you can't even buy in the UK - the C250 petrol and I thought the IS200t was a base model for the IS just like the IS200 and IS250 back in the day....

7 hours ago, rayaans said:

More people are edging towards more fuel efficient cars - hence the rise of diesel in the US

an MK2 hybrid would have ensured there was no IS220d and would have killed off the IS250 earlier. Remember that the RX400h came out in 2005 - a great hybrid system in its own right.

Possibly so ?? Although I do remember when the 2Gen IS was released in the UK, there was a waiting list !! did manage to source a base spec IS250 (with OEM 16inch wheels) from somewhere far in the UK but someone beaten him to it then get a call and manage to source a IS250 SE !!

7 hours ago, Martin F said:

This is confirmed, because look at the original launch of the third gen IS, the sales of IS250 were nearly non-existant with most people choosing the Hybrid model.

That was partly due to lack of marketing of the IS250, at the time and I don't recall them marketing the IS200t either !! Unless i missed it....

dutchie01 · July 6, 2017

23 hours ago, rayaans said:

Well this is blatantly wrong.

Huge flop?! Lexus only offered the 200t in the UK so there are more options available for buyers who don't want a hybrid.

Their main market is the US and the 200t drivetrain sells like hotcakes in the NX. Australia and New Zealand have the 200t option and they buy them, as well as countries such as Phillipines and Malaysia.

The 200t is perfectly fine - you just need to get that finger out of your backside - if you can find it

Some further info on this; Lexus shifted over 50.000 NXś last year in the states outselling the X3 and Q5 making it the number one premium SUV. The vast majority was 200t and the hybrid only plays a very small niche role. ( it is more expensive than the 200t ). The NX 200t got very positive reviews in the automotive press ( like the RC200t) and is seen as a big success.

Not sure about the UK market but in Holland Lexus withdrew all 200t engines only several months after the introduction. Reason beeing that hybrids get tax incentives so the 300h was priced below the 200t. All is based on Co2 of course. On top of that company car drivers pay less tax on the hybrid. So, this left the 200t without any hope.