Lexus dropping 2.0T for U.K.

dougie175 · June 28, 2017

4 minutes ago, paulrnx said:

Spot on. Had an IS200t for 4 months. Had a previous gen IS250 and a current gen IS250 and both wouldn't see which way a 200t went. They don't come close. Had an IS300h and this would be nowhere near an IS200t in a drag race. My 200t always felt like a rapid car and I couldn't say that about any of the others. Poor economy though, I expected better.

Very interesting to hear from someone who has had a good spread of similar engines!

paulrnx · June 28, 2017

I'd love an IS-F though!

dougie175 · June 28, 2017

Just now, paulrnx said:

I'd love an IS-F though!

Who wouldn't!

Linas.P · June 29, 2017

On 6/26/2017 at 9:52 AM, noby76 said:

4 pot engines be it NA or Turbo can sound nice and not trashing as you put it.. i have owned a V6, Striaght 6 and V8 and can tell you the 4 pot engine in my Accord is just as smooth and less trashing when compared to the V6 and straight 6 infact it actually goes about its business like a 6 cylinder. cruises like a 6 and has its own 'race' engine note at top end. below is one accelerating and i couldn't hear a trashing engine if any thing it sounded/accelerated in a composed way infact it actually got quieter the faster it was going...

Yep ... that familiar screaming trash can sound...

Boddney · June 29, 2017

31 minutes ago, Linas.P said:

Yep ... that familiar screaming trash can sound...

Love the fact that fuel light came on at top speed. (51secs) I know that feeling well.

peachy · June 29, 2017

On 2017-6-28 at 9:53 PM, paulrnx said:

Spot on. Had an IS200t for 4 months. Had a previous gen IS250 and a current gen IS250 and both wouldn't see which way a 200t went. They don't come close. Had an IS300h and this would be nowhere near an IS200t in a drag race. My 200t always felt like a rapid car and I couldn't say that about any of the others. Poor economy though, I expected better.

Not the impression I got when I drove the turbo for the day.

Despite its healthy power ratings, the IS 200t felt oddly slow in acceleration for a 4 pot turbo.my wife's 328i (2 litre turbo) will beat it to 60 mph by a pretty wide margin.

rayaans · June 30, 2017

11 hours ago, peachy said:

Not the impression I got when I drove the turbo for the day.

Despite its healthy power ratings, the IS 200t felt oddly slow in acceleration for a 4 pot turbo.my wife's 328i (2 litre turbo) will beat it to 60 mph by a pretty wide margin.

Surely thats because the 3 series is 200kg less in weight rather than the power of the engine itself.

noby76 · June 30, 2017

14 hours ago, Linas.P said:

Yep ... that familiar screaming trash can sound...

To be fair Linas the IS250 is NOT a nice sounding engine either in all honesty. i did test drive one when i had my IS300 at Lexus for cambelt change and was not impressed. my old Ford Cougar V6 sounded better under acceleration so did my IS300 when comparing to the 250. as you already said it might be your sensitive hearing but does not mean the IS200t has a trash can sound the video clearly shows how quiet and composed the car accelerated to its top speed and even got quieter the faster it went and in my opinion was not a trash can sound.

peachy · June 30, 2017

Have to disagree with you on that one noby76.

Ive owned a variety of motors over the years and none of them sound as good as the lexus V6.

You've got to push it though to hear it and when it roars up it turns heads.

My wife's bmw is a properly quick car but sounds no nowhere near as nice as the lexus.

Now the old bmw 328i with the 2.8 litre inline 6 cylinder engine was a superb sounding motor. Much much nicer than the 2 litre turbo charged engine that is still badged as a 328i for some reason.

noby76 · June 30, 2017

i think harmonic engine sounds is open to debate and individual taste. the video above clearly showed the 200t not sounding trashing and acceptable for a 4 cylinder engine not disputing the fact the 250 sounds a tad better than the 200t but its not night and day in my books. in my opinion my older ford cougar V6 i owned before my IS300 years ago were both raw and characterful in sound terms when accelerating compared to the 250 which i felt sounded docile and didn't make me grin when i test drove it. infact my 4 pot accord sounds more epic 'racey' when asked to perform than the 250 V6. but again that's me.

Linas.P · June 30, 2017

3 hours ago, noby76 said:

To be fair Linas the IS250 is NOT a nice sounding engine either in all honesty. i did test drive one when i had my IS300 at Lexus for cambelt change and was not impressed. my old Ford Cougar V6 sounded better under acceleration so did my IS300 when comparing to the 250. as you already said it might be your sensitive hearing but does not mean the IS200t has a trash can sound the video clearly shows how quiet and composed the car accelerated to its top speed and even got quieter the faster it went and in my opinion was not a trash can sound.

No need to say this is purely subjective. I have no intentions to be objective or pretend to be in my post. I just don't like sound of 2.0t engine in Lexus, nor the one in my previous Passat CC... that is about it. I personally like prefer IS250 engine sound even though I accept it is not the best sounding V6.. but it isn't bad either. I would probably criticise exhaust note more, but being realistic you cannot make both to be quiet and have a nice note without using complex flaps system. SO I accept it is tuned towards silent.

noby76 · June 30, 2017

you don't like the sound but someone else does so its individual preference at the end of the day.

Linas.P · June 30, 2017

35 minutes ago, noby76 said:

you don't like the sound but someone else does so its individual preference at the end of the day.

It is not point to pretend that V10 or V8 doesn't make best sound in motoring world (that is at least if you have standard taste of petrol head), V12 is somewhat novelty. Compared to V10 or V8, obviously V6 doesn't sound as good, but it still has "V form" note which no L engines will ever have. Turbo is known for reducing engine sound anyway.. and talking purely about the sound the only positive of turbo is blow-off sound (if it is loud aftermarket).. and maybe if it is "big turbo" you can hear intake noise. L4 is know as unbalanced and not well sounding engine and really it is developed with sole purpose - to fit in small FWD cars transversely. IS/RC is neither small, nor FWD car so by definition I believe L4 is wrong engine for application. It doesn't matter if it is turbo or not, but engine underlying design is fundamentally wrong. To be honest I don't really like the sound of IS250 v6 idling either, because injection makes similar sound to diesel engine, but you don't hear that inside the car and when driving engine/exhaust sounds isolates injections noise.

Back to your point - completely agree people has a right to say they like 2.0t similarly as I have a right to call it "sounding trashy", "sounding under-powered" and "not fit for application".

noby76 · June 30, 2017

but Linas your above post is what you believe and yui have the right to call it trasy bit it does not necessarily make it true in any sense. that why i use my accord as an example. its a 4 pot but one can only sense it at very low speeds and i mean some one who knows and have driven larger displacement cars which i am in the position to since i have owned L4, V6 straight 6 and V8 engines. once it gets to cruising speeds it is no different to my previous 6's both V layout and straight layout. likewise when accelerating, it does not sound trashy to me but acceptable for a 4 cylinder engine. the injection sound in the 250 was the same feeling i got when i test drove it it was more a diesel noise than a silky smooth 6 cylinder engine like the IS300.

I haven't driven the 200t yet but based on my knowledge one can drive the car at docile speeds using upper parts of its 8 gears and fat torque band will allow it to accelerate in pretty much any gear without getting revs up which translates to sounding even more docile than the V6 at lower speeds as well.

Linas.P · June 30, 2017

You see.... we all can stay with our opinions, which we all have right to have, but that means we will never agree on anything. What I am trying to do is to address fundamental purpose of L4 engines and to explain why it is not suitable in form of luxury RWD car. Your example of Honda Accord is altogether comparing apples and oranges. Honda Accord is not set to compete with BMW or MB or other luxury brands - it is mid range quality/practical brand/car set against Mondeo, Passat, Mazda6 and similar. It is FWD, which explains why it uses L4 and furthermore ... it is 2.4 and not 2.0 which explains why it might actually be great sounding and feeling engine...Finally, I don't know and I haven't tried Accord.... so what that example gives us?

noby76 · June 30, 2017

i know which cars my Honda Accord competes against and its drives better than an IS250 in rain, sunshine and snow i can tell you that for sure.. what do you mean by Luxury RWD car? please explain

Linas.P · June 30, 2017

48 minutes ago, noby76 said:

i know which cars my Honda Accord competes against and its drives better than an IS250 in rain, sunshine and snow i can tell you that for sure.. what do you mean by Luxury RWD car? please explain

That is as well subjective, when you say it drives better. And again just me personally, so clearly subjective - I would never consider FWD and RWD cars on same level... I not even going to say which is better, but it is simply completely different experience.

Luxury RWD car, means exactly that... car with premium features, brand and uses RWD configuration.

noby76 · June 30, 2017

yes to me it does indeed drive and sound better than the IS250 in any conditions asked of it. and that's from someone who has driven an IS250 before. And you are right FWD and RWD cars are not on the same level due to the fact FWD betters RWD in rain, sleet and Snow without sacrificing anything in the dry conditions when both cars have equal weight and equal horsepower ratings.

"Luxury RWD car, means exactly that... car with premium features, brand and uses RWD configuration."

Which the IS200T is...... its benefit of a twin scroll turbo charger and lack of 500 cc in displacement and lack of 2 cylinders will have no bearing on its premium features, its brand name nor its RWD configuration. except it will do one thing which the 250 will struggle to match. you and I know what that is..

Linas.P · June 30, 2017

3 hours ago, noby76 said:

yes to me it does indeed drive and sound better than the IS250 in any conditions asked of it. and that's from someone who has driven an IS250 before. And you are right FWD and RWD cars are not on the same level due to the fact FWD betters RWD in rain, sleet and Snow without sacrificing anything in the dry conditions when both cars have equal weight and equal horsepower ratings.

"Luxury RWD car, means exactly that... car with premium features, brand and uses RWD configuration."

Which the IS200T is...... its benefit of a twin scroll turbo charger and lack of 500 cc in displacement and lack of 2 cylinders will have no bearing on its premium features, its brand name nor its RWD configuration. except it will do one thing which the 250 will struggle to match. you and I know what that is..

7

No annnnnd No...

___

Ok... I just was little bit wage on above answer... but that is in essence what I think. I like how RWD car behaves... especially on the slippery road. If we talking about a most efficient way to make corner... you might be right FWD would make it more efficiently (unless obviously we talking about anything above ~250ag). But that is not the point... if I look for efficiently in my life I would not driver Lexus.. in fact, I would not drive at all.

And on the second one... you see I disagree. That is what I expect it to be, what it should be ... just a little problem - it has an engine from hooligans car... which doesn't suit anything luxury or premium... It is almost like you need to drive it with baseball cap backward to suit yourself for the occasion. Back to my point - wrong engine for the wrong application. How wrong... it is wrong enough for me to not consider it as a luxury car, because the experience of refinement, luxury and class are ruined by that s*** engine.

You don't need to agree... but that is my opinion.

noby76 · June 30, 2017

like an IS250 is luxurious . Drive a GS with the renowned 4.3 V8 from the UZ family and let me know if you still find an IS luxurious. .

an enginr with a turbo aiding it becomes a hooligans car?? which planet did you come from??

Linas.P · June 30, 2017

Depends on what you want to compare it with... I mean comparison with GS is plainly stupid - if it would be as luxurious as GS.. then why have two models in the line-up. Obviously, it is better than Accord, or Mondeo in that aspect... What is more important it was well equipped for its age, at the time when the car was released in 2005 it had every bell and whistle and it stood well in it entry-luxury niche. After driving 2012 F-Sport, I had BMW328xi, then went back to IS250awd, then MB 350C 4-Matic and finally that dreadful Passat CC and even in 2015 I still was confident that IS250 is better built, more reliable, better equipped (in terms of what I cared for) and just more pleasant place to be than many other cars I drove, I prefer it over 2016 RC300h and 2015 IS200t, no need to say better than 2006 CT200h. Obviously, new cars come out now with more toys and there is no need to pretend 2005 models stands a chance.

My point for what it was in 2005 it was very good value for money entry-luxury car, definitely better than what Germans had on offer. Fast forward to 2013 mk 3 is a mediocre car, not even average... and that is why I am holding on for a well overdue upgrade. Honestly, I feel IS250 getting obsolete in many ways, but I am not founding anything pleasing to replace it with.

noby76 · June 30, 2017

no its not a stupid comparison we are talking about luxury and refinement right?? You see Linas you are completely missing the target here. an IS is meant to be a Sports Saloon with a touch of luxury and not the other way round. which IS200t fits in perfectly..

And no IS250 is NOT a better car than the Executive Honda Accord be it in driving dynamics, handling and spec..

Linas.P · June 30, 2017

So maybe I should compare it MB S-class just for sake of real luxury.. what is GS compared to MB S-class... maybe Maybach, Royce Royce as well.. those are certainly more luxurious? This is not the way you compare cars - there are certain tiers where the cars are competing... GS with 5-Series... Nobody compares 3-Series with 5-Series, because if they would be comparable BMW don't make 2 separate classes, same for Lexus.

That said IS250 is refined and luxurious car for it's class. What the class is.. that is up for debate - I believe it can be described as "compact executive" or "entry luxury". That is a different from sport/performance saloon which neither IS250 nor 200t are. I am just being wiki hero here - "A ... sports saloon is ... saloon car ... that is designed to look and feel "sporty", offering the motorist more connection with the driving experience, while providing the comfort and amenities expected of a luxury sedan". So that is IS-F, Luxury features of IS, but added performance. Terms are ambiguous enough to put almost anything under the badge, manufacturers deliberately use them to describe almost all the cars there is.

That said IS200t is not sports sedan (I know it says that in Lexus page) it is just poor incarnation of a compact executive, which was not fit to even pre-entry luxury.

Do you even believe below yourself?

31 minutes ago, noby76 said:

And no IS250 is NOT a better car than the Executive Honda Accord be it in driving dynamics, handling and spec..

3

noby76 · June 30, 2017

The GS V8 is smoother than an S class Merc.. rode in an S550 in New York as a mate of mine uses it for his chauffeur business and to be honest there was nothing wow about it that the GS V8 was not delivering so to answer your question yes the GS rides better.

Can you read your wiki definition of what a sports saloon is again to your self and tell me if Lexus themselves by your own words were wrong to lable the IS as a sports sedan.

No I didn't stutter when I said the IS250 is not a better car to the Accord and let me know which part you disagree with

Linas.P · June 30, 2017

In terms of GS vs. S-Class I suggest you have a go on this in MB forum. I am personally not surprised (probably would agree with you), but it is just a wrong way of comparing cars.

25 minutes ago, noby76 said:

Can you read your wiki definition of what a sports saloon is again to your self and tell me if Lexus themselves by your own words were wrong to lable the IS as a sports sedan.

3

I see where you coming from, If you read the full article - sport/performance saloons are M3, C63 AMG etc... but the quote I used have certain ambiguity to it i.e. "designed to look and feel sporty". That is exactly what I was complaining all along - for me it doesn't feel "sporty", to be more precise it feels anything but sporty - unrefined, trashy, underpowered... that is what comes to my mind.

Nowadays any crappy car is called sports saloon.. the more badges the crappier is the car. If you ask me personally - I would differentiate sports and performance saloons - M3, IS-F etc... being performance and the rest being sports (kind of what you are saying). In this case, I would agree that F-Sport 200t is a sport (crappy) saloon and IS300h Luxury is entry (mediocre) luxury offerings.

The intrinsic problem here is that Lexus tried one size fits all approach, cover corners with a single model. The result is F-Sport which does not really stand for anything sporty and Luxury which is not really luxurious. In fact, if you don't like how "luxurious" is IS250 mk2, the mk3 is even less, especially considering that times moved on since 2005.