Lexus dropping 2.0T for U.K.

Big Rat · June 23, 2017

27 minutes ago, rayaans said:

1) by your logic, if the 200T is underpowered, the 250 is more underpowered

2) your views go against many people who have driven the 200t. It doesn't feel underpowered - it feels very strong tbh so I don't understand where the smoke is coming from.

3) 200t is faster at any speed and in any gear. Turbo lag is minimal and the torque (almost double) and hp overrides it

Figures are true and explainable.

The 200t has 8 gears - meaning the 5th and 6th are shorter, hence faster acceleration

250 only has 6 gears so 5 and 6 ae technically overdrive. Additionally the power is only available higher in the rev range and there's very little torque below 4.8k rpm

The 200t maximum torque comes on at 1.6k rpm

@rayaans Yep 👍

🐀

Big Rat · June 23, 2017

26 minutes ago, rayaans said:

Linas is back with his BS again.

If you do a proper 0-62mph run, you'll find the IS250 gets to 62mph in 3rd gear.

So yes 40-60mph will take 10.3s because there is barely any power available as the engine will be lugging at 2-3k rpm. The max power comes at over 4k

@rayaans Yep again 🤡

🐀

Tel · June 24, 2017

Rayaan,

Spot on!

Tel

noby76 · June 24, 2017

how does an engine making 350NM from 1600rpm feel underpowered?? ... its not like its any heavier than the IS250... the reason why the 200T will out accelerate the 250 in any gear at any speed is due to the artifcial flat torque the engine is able to produce from around 1600 to around 4500rpm couple that with 8 close ratio gears so if any thing the 200T will drive and feel powerful.. we all know the 250 sounds better but does not mean its going faster.. certainly no slouch the 250 as i have seen one pull 160mph easily..

Linas.P · June 24, 2017

You feel like winning, don't you?

The smoke is coming from trying IS200t and hating it... Any small engined turbo car feels underpowered for me and feels trashy... always. Fair enough that might be just me having a specific sense for hating low volume turbo engined cars, which other human beings don't have...

In terms of times, we all talking more or less rubbish here, but one thing for sure - IS250 doesn't take 10.3s to do 40-60MPH in 4th gear. If you want I invite you to join me in my IS250 and we can test it in real life (and we can have a beer afterward)...

@noby76 - that is all perception. It is like fitting louder exhaust and thinking you going faster. Just in case of IS250 vs IS200t it is double to amount - both engine and exhaust sound better. I am not denying IS200t is an overall faster car than IS250, I just don't like the way it sounds and I don't like how 2.0t engine feels. Based on my senses (which by no means are perfect) I feel faster in IS250 even though I know that is not the case.

peachy · June 24, 2017

According to that list the is250 has a top speed of 225 mph or am I reading it wrong😕

peachy · June 24, 2017

I know what you mean linas p, I didn't like the sound the 200t made when I test drove it. That's why I bought the is250 as the v6 growl is a delight to hear. And the fact it saved me £7000.

200t definitely felt quicker though but not particularly quick for a 2 litre turbo.

Didn't like the lag either especially from a standing start. The is250 launches like a rocket and would make a quicker initial start over the turbo but by 60mph the 200t would be several car lengths ahead and making fast gains.

Linas.P · June 24, 2017

Thanks... exactly what I am saying... faster for the initial jump, sounds better, sounds faster and is smoother. Now way of denying IS200t will be faster to 60MPH even considering real 0-60 for IS250 is like 7.5-7.6s, but even then official IS200t is 7.1s and real is probably ~6.7...

The list above is a real mess ... and yes apparently IS250 does 225MPH (which is beyond ridiculous even theoretically)...

Casa1862 · June 24, 2017

Linda.p- Let's get real, the only reason anyone would consider the is250 over a is200t is price, it's miles cheaper, all the rest are excuses to make you feel better. The new IS is a better car all round, if the criteria for a car was to FEEL fast we'd all be in go-carts. Things move one, the is250'is just old now, nothing wrong with that but it's delusional to say it's underpowered by any measure apart from what's in your head!

Martin F · June 24, 2017

5 hours ago, Linas.P said:

Any small engined turbo car feels underpowered for me and feels trashy... always. Fair enough that might be just me having a specific sense for hating low volume turbo engined cars, which other human beings don't have...

Let me just leave a picture of this underpowered 2.0 turbocharged car here

J Henderson · June 24, 2017

Yes, plus Subaru boxer etc, but the difference being, those older 4-pot turbos are engines with a bit of character from a bygone age when no-one gave a damn about emissions or fuel economy, and they were turbocharged to increase performance, not tick boxes.

Big Rat · June 24, 2017

2 hours ago, Martin F said:

Let me just leave a picture of this underpowered 2.0 turbocharged car here

@Martin F Stop that now showing that it's filth just filth 😋

Big Rat

Rebecca · June 24, 2017

7 hours ago, peachy said:

According to that list the is250 has a top speed of 225 mph or am I reading it wrong😕

It's amazing what a tank full of shell nitro does 😉

And who needs an F when we have this kind of performance 😄

mpls · June 24, 2017

Can't believe they'll be dropping the 2.0T

I won't get another 300H unless they up the drivability that is lacking for motorway drive under certain situation ( even in sport mode). Though I must admit every other type of drive in town, A, B roads it is great.

Surely Lexus needs a turbo ICE for their next gen Hybrid, or is there going to be an EV coming along. ?

peachy · June 24, 2017

Lexus are only intrested in hybrids these days. Surprised to see the turbo being dropped so early though as it's only been in the uk a year.

Lexus have made some excellent petrol engine vehicles and the turbo is one of the best ( although I prefer the 250) but it's horses for courses.

Hybrids definitely not my cup of tea. I'm perfectly happy with my 250 and plan on keeping it until it eventually gives up the ghost and when that day comes I'll be buying a bmw.

dougie175 · June 24, 2017

Yeah seems surprising as on paper the 2.0t seems a great idea and lets Lexus keep up with other brands, it does seem they are going down a heavily Hybrid route.

B1001 · June 25, 2017

I bought my car for reliability and with a view towards putting a few hundred thousand miles on it.

IS250 all the way.

Those turbo's spin at tens of thousands of RPM and are not reliable in the long term.

Cant imagine my IS reaching 225mph though 😂😂😂

dougie175 · June 25, 2017

Cant argue that a can without a turbo has 1 less thing to go wrong, but modern turbo are pretty damn reliable especially for what they achieve and you leave them alone! They do become less reliable when people tinker with them and wind up the boost to the upper limits and more often than not beyond the turbos safe limits.

I personally feel turbo powered cars have a place and think the turbo is a fantastic piece of kit, but I do much prefer the power delivery of a NA car

ColinBarber · June 25, 2017

I'm not surprised. In 2016, 97% of all IS sales were for the 300h and the figure is looking even higher during 2017.

Across the whole range, Lexus sales figures in the last few years years have been 97% hybrid, so far this year it is 99%.

dutchie01 · June 25, 2017

15 hours ago, J Henderson said:

Yes, plus Subaru boxer etc, but the difference being, those older 4-pot turbos are engines with a bit of character from a bygone age when no-one gave a damn about emissions or fuel economy, and they were turbocharged to increase performance, not tick boxes.

totally agree. current turbo engines are very civilized and totally in touch with the rest of the car, drivetrain, chassis etc.

i can remember my Saab that had a tuned 2.0 engine. at 3000 rpm the left or right front tyre would loose grip and i just loved the whissling sound of the pop off valve,

fond memories but sometimes totally unpredictable especially in the wet, like skating from left to right!

Linas.P · June 25, 2017

20 hours ago, Martin F said:

Let me just leave a picture of this underpowered 2.0 turbocharged car here

That is not really the point, there are many great turbo cars and even many great 2.0t cars. Literally endless list. To illustrate I will take Golf GTI 2.0t as example.. great car for what it means to be doing. It is hot hatch and it is meant to be trashy and to be trashed, that is what the car is about... Fair enough have no problems with it.

However, the same engine in Passat CC R-line literally sucks, suck so badly in fact that I traded the car after less than 1000 miles. And again talking about underpowered ... well generally it was, but definitely not more than Lexus IS250, with DSG box it was rated at 7.6s and was probably faster... yet it felt total ****. And I had Passat CC straight after trading IS250... so could really compare the experience (what a mistake I made). Passat obviously had it's share of other problems, not only the engine....

Fast forward 3 years later I had IS200t as a courtesy car while servicing IS250.... Ohhh hello Passat CC experience again - trashy, hesitant - **** feeling, except Passat DSG was doing much better than Lexus auto.. but overall made me sick every time I accelerated. Again just my opinion and maybe I didn't make maybe point clear - 2.0t simply has no place in any luxury car, it is simply not refined enough, trashy engine meant for hot hatches... again would be perfect in CT. On paper, it might be just powerful (or for that matter underpowered) as 2.5 v6. But where the difference lies is how 2.5 v6 NA deliver that power, how smooth and consistent it is - 2.5 is just much better refined engine and it might not make IS250 "a fast car" but it doesn't feel out of place, whereas 2.0t feels like the wrong engine for wrong purpose (for me that is)...

Martin F · June 25, 2017

On 24 June 2017 at 1:09 PM, Linas.P said:

Any small engined turbo car feels underpowered for me and feels trashy... always. Fair enough that might be just me having a specific sense for hating low volume turbo engined cars, which other human beings don't have...

7 hours ago, Linas.P said:

That is not really the point, there are many great turbo cars and even many great 2.0t cars. Literally endless list. To illustrate I will take Golf GTI 2.0t as example.. great car for what it means to be doing. It is hot hatch and it is meant to be trashy and to be trashed, that is what the car is about... Fair enough have no problems with it.

Make your mind up!

noby76 · June 26, 2017

On 2017-6-24 at 1:09 PM, Linas.P said:

@noby76 - that is all perception. It is like fitting louder exhaust and thinking you going faster. Just in case of IS250 vs IS200t it is double to amount - both engine and exhaust sound better. I am not denying IS200t is an overall faster car than IS250, I just don't like the way it sounds and I don't like how 2.0t engine feels. Based on my senses (which by no means are perfect) I feel faster in IS250 even though I know that is not the case.

4 pot engines be it NA or Turbo can sound nice and not trashing as you put it.. i have owned a V6, Striaght 6 and V8 and can tell you the 4 pot engine in my Accord is just as smooth and less trashing when compared to the V6 and straight 6 infact it actually goes about its business like a 6 cylinder. cruises like a 6 and has its own 'race' engine note at top end. below is one accelerating and i couldn't hear a trashing engine if any thing it sounded/accelerated in a composed way infact it actually got quieter the faster it was going...

Linas.P · June 26, 2017

17 hours ago, Martin F said:

Make your mind up!

I have, you just didn't bother to read and understand.

All 2.0t cars in my opinion sounds "trashy", but it is OK for Golf GTI to sound trashy - because it is basic hot hatch, whilst it is NOT OK for Lexus IS to sound exactly the same, because it is luxury saloon. I can word it differently - if it is compact and nimble car 2.0t suits that style, but if it is heavy and luxurious car where smoothness and refinement is more important, then it is better of with NA engine, and the bigger the volume the better.

@noby76 - I have not driven Honda Accord 2.0t so cannot comment, but I have driven Passat CC and IS200t both 2.0t and have above opinion about both.

paulrnx · June 28, 2017

On 6/23/2017 at 10:15 AM, rayaans said:

The CT200h doesn't have the 200t engine so that doesnt count - this thread only relates to the 200t engine which is only available on the IS, RC, NX and RX at the moment.

Apart from the 2 cars at the dealership, I have never seen a 200t out on the road.

Remember that the IS200T hits 62mph in 7.0s whereas the IS250 is rated at 8.1s. (Im not talking about the hypothetical 7.7s figure thats out and about as there is a hypothetical figure for the IS200T as well). Thats 1.1s faster on paper alone.

In reality, after the initial set off, its stronger than the IS250 in any gear, at any RPM. The torque figure matches the IS350 and thats what counts in the real world.

Smoothness is not an issue, its buttery - the smoothest 4 pot ive tested.

Noise isn't too bad either as long as you keep the ASC off.

I strongly suggest you drive one, its superb and in every way better than the IS250 engine it replaced apart from the noise.

Spot on. Had an IS200t for 4 months. Had a previous gen IS250 and a current gen IS250 and both wouldn't see which way a 200t went. They don't come close. Had an IS300h and this would be nowhere near an IS200t in a drag race. My 200t always felt like a rapid car and I couldn't say that about any of the others. Poor economy though, I expected better.