Lexus dropping 2.0T for U.K.

doog442 · July 6, 2017

I've just seen this as been in non internet land .

As an IS200t owner this is a real shame for those looking for a decent driving experience who weren't willing to enter the hybrid market or go up to the ISF. I'm talking about IS200 /300 and IS250 owners.

However when I bought mine I was aware that only 70 IS200t's had been registered that year and the writing was on the wall.

Its a great car, decent performance in sportsmode (sub 7 seconds for 0-60) and fuel economy on a run in the late 40's. The engine is smoother than a smooth thing for a 4 pot and its a real looker with the twin exhaust configuration.

I feel lucky to own one.

peachy · July 6, 2017

Lexus should do the right thing now it's decided to pull the plug on the turbo and introduce the awesome 350 to the uk.

This car is a beast and will out perform most cars on uk roads today. Not only that it keeps the awesome V6 engine that makes the 250 such a fantastic car.

The 350 in the uk would sell like hot cakes and I would be the first to buy.

doog442 · July 6, 2017

35 minutes ago, peachy said:

Lexus should do the right thing now it's decided to pull the plug on the turbo and introduce the awesome 350 to the uk.

This car is a beast and will out perform most cars on uk roads today. Not only that it keeps the awesome V6 engine that makes the 250 such a fantastic car.

The 350 in the uk would sell like hot cakes and I would be the first to buy.

I think that's what we've all been waiting for but it wont happen. Like you I'd be on it like a shot despite having just come from the 3 litre N55 BMW.

Its all or nothing, Lexus are yet again rolling over and letting Audi and BMW tickle their tummy, patting them on the head and sending them off to bed as the awkward little upstart brother.

Is my friend Linus on this thread rejoicing in the demise of the car he admitted he never did get to drive..I guess so.

rayaans · July 6, 2017

53 minutes ago, peachy said:

Lexus should do the right thing now it's decided to pull the plug on the turbo and introduce the awesome 350 to the uk.

This car is a beast and will out perform most cars on uk roads today. Not only that it keeps the awesome V6 engine that makes the 250 such a fantastic car.

The 350 in the uk would sell like hot cakes and I would be the first to buy.

No it wouldn't

The price of an IS350 here would be around 45-50k. The 300h would walk all over it in terms of sales and it's value would plummet just like those of the 3rd gen IS250 and 200t

Not only that but if introduced now it would that mean £450 road tax a year for 5 years but also a probable first year tax rate of £1700.

I doubt that engine even meets emission regulations and they wouldn't just tune an enginE for a small market

noby76 · July 6, 2017

1 hour ago, doog442 said:

I've just seen this as been in non internet land .

As an IS200t owner this is a real shame for those looking for a decent driving experience who weren't willing to enter the hybrid market or go up to the ISF. I'm talking about IS200 /300 and IS250 owners.

However when I bought mine I was aware that only 70 IS200t's had been registered that year and the writing was on the wall.

Its a great car, decent performance in sportsmode (sub 7 seconds for 0-60) and fuel economy on a run in the late 40's. The engine is smoother than a smooth thing for a 4 pot and its a real looker with the twin exhaust configuration.

I feel lucky to own one.

Finally a word from an IS200t owner who drives his everyday not a test drive to appreciate its values..

what Europe/UK needs is the 3.5 hybrid engine from the GS450h in two spec's. Model 1 can be badged IS350h with a detuned power of 265BHP and model 2 IS400h with a detuned power of 320bhp. so wont tread on GS450h toes in terms of power output..

Linas.P · July 7, 2017

16 hours ago, doog442 said:

Is my friend Linus on this thread rejoicing in the demise of the car he admitted he never did get to drive..I guess so.

Who is Linus? Anyway... you not quite right here. What I have said is that I never got to drive RC200t, but I have driven IS200t and as such I said it would be waste of time for me to try RC200t in addition to RC300h, because I didn't like my experience in IS200t...

16 hours ago, noby76 said:

what Europe/UK needs is the 3.5 hybrid engine from the GS450h in two spec's. Model 1 can be badged IS350h with a detuned power of 265BHP and model 2 IS400h with a detuned power of 320bhp. so wont tread on GS450h toes in terms of power output..

I agree in terms of IS, but what about RC? RC is above GS in Lexus line-up so Lexus should not be afraid to go on toes of GS450h in RC. In fact quite opposite they probably should de-tune GS.

I would say they should turbo charge 300h + add 20 miles of Plug-in hybrid capacity - making IS/RC300h not only faster than IS200t, but as well very sensible city PHEV. I am not sure about tuning and positioning of IS (currently both IS and GS shares 300h) but for RC we need full-fat version of 450h.

On 7/6/2017 at 0:43 PM, rayaans said:

More people are edging towards more fuel efficient cars - hence the rise of diesel in the US

an MK2 hybrid would have ensured there was no IS220d and would have killed off the IS250 earlier. Remember that the RX400h came out in 2005 - a great hybrid system in its own right.

Apples vs. Oranges. As I mentioned before in 2005, there was no way for small hybrid hybrid.. unless Lexus committing for IS450h. Yes RC400h was success as was GS450h, because they were 400+h, 2.5+hybrid back in the day was not an option and it would have sucked.

On 7/6/2017 at 0:44 PM, Martin F said:

This is confirmed, because look at the original launch of the third gen IS, the sales of IS250 were nearly non-existant with most people choosing the Hybrid model.

again... you comparing hybrid tech impact on car market in 2013 with 2005. mk3 300h in my opinion sucks as of 2013 and even today. Yes tax initiatives helped to shift 300h and killed of IS250 in 2013, but it would have not been the case back in 2005. One it would have sucked even more, two tere were less initiatives and public need in 2005.

rayaans · July 7, 2017

37 minutes ago, Linas.P said:

Who is Linus? Anyway... you not quite right here. What I have said is that I never got to drive RC200t, but I have driven IS200t and as such I said it would be waste of time for me to try RC200t in addition to RC300h, because I didn't like my experience in IS200t...

I agree in terms of IS, but what about RC? RC is above GS in Lexus line-up so Lexus should not be afraid to go on toes of GS450h in RC. In fact quite opposite they probably should de-tune GS.

I would say they should turbo charge 300h + add 20 miles of Plug-in hybrid capacity - making IS/RC300h not only faster than IS200t, but as well very sensible city PHEV. I am not sure about tuning and positioning of IS (currently both IS and GS shares 300h) but for RC we need full-fat version of 450h.

Apples vs. Oranges. As I mentioned before in 2005, there was no way for small hybrid hybrid.. unless Lexus committing for IS450h. Yes RC400h was success as was GS450h, because they were 400+h, 2.5+hybrid back in the day was not an option and it would have sucked.

again... you comparing hybrid tech impact on car market in 2013 with 2005. mk3 300h in my opinion sucks as of 2013 and even today. Yes tax initiatives helped to shift 300h and killed of IS250 in 2013, but it would have not been the case back in 2005. One it would have sucked even more, two tere were less initiatives and public need in 2005.

If the IS300h sucked, people wouldn't have bought it

Duh....

Linas.P · July 7, 2017

27 minutes ago, rayaans said:

If the IS300h sucked, people wouldn't have bought it

Duh....

People bought it not because it was good to dive, it just made sense in terms of tax and running costs. I am sure majority of the sales are corporate leases, where you can off-set depreciation on tax and for employees to surrender salary for the lease. That is where 300h configuration worked. That is why as well I might end-up with RC300h even though I don't like it - it just makes sense and saves taxes, not because it is nice to drive.

Again that was the case in 2013, it wouldn't have been the case in 2005. What companies were getting on lease back then? Yes you right - diesels...

In fact even if you look at the industry, sales still dominated by diesels. Only this year diesels actually dropped more significantly. As well hybrids are actually old fashioned now - what is new trend is Full EVs and PHEVs... so 300h no longer make that much sense.

rayaans · July 7, 2017

1 hour ago, Linas.P said:

People bought it not because it was good to dive, it just made sense in terms of tax and running costs. I am sure majority of the sales are corporate leases, where you can off-set depreciation on tax and for employees to surrender salary for the lease. That is where 300h configuration worked. That is why as well I might end-up with RC300h even though I don't like it - it just makes sense and saves taxes, not because it is nice to drive.

Again that was the case in 2013, it wouldn't have been the case in 2005. What companies were getting on lease back then? Yes you right - diesels...

In fact even if you look at the industry, sales still dominated by diesels. Only this year diesels actually dropped more significantly. As well hybrids are actually old fashioned now - what is new trend is Full EVs and PHEVs... so 300h no longer make that much sense.

If someone wanted a saloon car that's cheap to tax and run they'd get a Ford mondeo or an insignia.

I bought an IS300h for my wife - guess why? Because it's not nice to drive

NemesisUK · July 7, 2017

Linas.P · July 7, 2017

Ford Mondeo or Insignia is not as good on company tax bill. It might be nice car for a lady, driving slowly and carefully - I agree, my girlfriend had no complaints about RC300h either. That doesn't mean it is anywhere near genuine drivers car, for that matter even IS250 isn't real drivers car, but it is still better at it.

doog442 · July 7, 2017

I think a few of of us are banging our head against a brick wall here..ignore function on and I'm out.

dutchie01 · July 7, 2017

i purchased my IS300H as firstly i thought it was just a great looker leaving the competition way behind and secondly beacause ii think it is just a great car. The chassis can handle many mor horses without any trouble and i rate it highr than the 3 series( which i owned for 2 yrs).

All that combined with a beautiful interior, top notch bulld quality without creaks or rattles and good fuel consumption made me go for it. For me personally NOTHING to do with tax etc.

Linas, you will have your personal opinion and that is fine, but it is your personal opinion and nothing more. YOU think the t engines are crap etc while many of us may feel they are just fine. YOU may feel the IS300H is not a drivers car but many of us will have a different opinion.

I do expect you will react on this mail like a ping pong ball as usuall but your black and white world is not mine.

Shahpor · July 7, 2017

This thread really does need to die now.

When are you people going to learn that Linas is like the Duracell bunny and you guys are the batteries

doog442 · July 7, 2017

16 minutes ago, Shahpor said:

This thread really does need to die now.

When are you people going to learn that Linas is like the Duracell bunny and you guys are the batteries

I just cannot get my head around someone who makes a so called informed opinion from an alleged 'try' of various Lexus models and then makes a hobby of slating them from here to kingdom come for eternity...on a Lexus forum...for sure pop over to bimmers and slate the brand but within hours they'd be telling him to wind his neck in.

Its like a non cycling Guardian reporter riding a 7kg carbon racing bicycle for 5 minutes and stating it hurt his arse and as such is the biggest crock of s@=t as a result

Do these dealerships randomly offer up these cars to him as for the life of me if I wanted to test everything he's allegedly drove my local dealer would suss me double quick as a time waster.

Bluesman · July 7, 2017

Every body is entitled to express their opinions in a polite fashion.

NemesisUK · July 7, 2017

13 minutes ago, Bluesman said:

Every body is entitled to express their opinions in a polite fashion.

It takes one post to express an opinion ...

Linas.P · July 7, 2017

38 minutes ago, doog442 said:

I just cannot get my head around someone who makes a so called informed opinion from an alleged 'try' of various Lexus models and then makes a hobby of slating them from here to kingdom come for eternity...on a Lexus forum...for sure pop over to bimmers and slate the brand but within hours they'd be telling him to wind his neck in.

Do these dealerships randomly offer up these cars to him as for the life of me if I wanted to test everything he's allegedly drove my local dealer would suss me double quick as a time waster.

Forum is not only for fan boys, I know it would be politically correct to flatter Lexus car on Lexus forum and get a lot of likes. But I am here not for likes and if anything nobody can accuse me of political correctness. I just say what I think from my personal experience and by compare car like for like without prejudice.

I haven't tired that many cars from current Lexus line-up.. Once CT200h - courtesy during fuel sensor recall, once IS200t - loaner during annual service, once RC300h - 24 hours test drive. So not sure the dealership has notices anything unusual.. I had 3 IS250s in the past and know the car inside out...

@NemesisUK - Yes and I did exactly that - "I am so happy Lexus dropped 2.0t because it was trashy engine not suitable for Lexus as a brand, hope they will replace it with something more reasonable (~IS/RC350)".

Then I was challenged by other people with their opinion... and obviously everyone has a right to their own.. so here we are few pages later.

doog442 · July 7, 2017

So you based your IS200t view on having a car for a few hours? Despite having 3 IS250's and the IS200t being able to wipe the floor with them you stick to your view that its an inferior engine yet you want a 'drivers car'....

You previously stated your decision to drive a RC300h was 'retarded' having driven an IS300h which you dont mention above?

steveledzep · July 7, 2017

I used to contribute to this forum a lot more when there was sensible discussion and debate, I think others did too (I'm sure some are missing of late?). I also enjoyed it a lot more too before this style of posting became prevalent on numerous threads. I have respect for the regular contributors with sound knowledge and good advice. I've kept this post polite and impersonal.....I'm sure you guys can read between the lines (was tempting to insert a deliberate typo there).

noby76 · July 7, 2017

1 hour ago, Linas.P said:

I had 3 IS250s in the past and know the car inside out...

3 IS250's jee who buys the same car 3 times

doog442 · July 7, 2017

Indeed.

After 10 years of forum membership its depressing to log on and read numerous posts over an elongated period (many months) from one person about how crap my car is, despite the far he/ she has never owned one. Not just mine of course but other models.

However as long as he's polite he can say what he likes, go figure.

This place was always, within reason, a corner to enlighten and enthuse about our Lexus vehicle ownership not slag it off. It was always the case that if you wanted to feel good about your car, log on and feel the warmth....admire it on the drive, go out, clean the thing and drive it.

Enthuse in the sheer lack of problems or issues whilst BMW forums drown in coil pack issues and the rest.

If that makes me a fan boy so be it.

C'est la vie

dutchie01 · July 7, 2017

trolls will troll

best to ignore them completely

J Henderson · July 7, 2017

5 hours ago, NemesisUK said:

Seriously though, I can sympathise with Linas's position. I'm not going to slag anyone's car off quite like he does (), but I I too, would consider the move to a 4-cylinder engine (whether turbo'd or hybrid) to be a downgrade, regardless of whether the 4-cyl application is cleaner/cheaper to own/more powerful etc. Absolute performance isn't everything so these "top trumps" arguments about 0-62MPH times etc are more or less irrelevant. If that was important to me I would have a BMW, not a Lexus.

All I know, is that when the time comes to replace my IS250, I'm not sure Lexus will have anything in their range that's going to have quite the same appeal unless I go to a different model altogether (At this point I'm, thinking GS450h or a full-blown "F" model, or different brand altogether). It's either that or I buy into a "white elephant" model that's been discontinued like Mk3 IS250 or IS200t.

Just bare in mind that there are actually people out there that don't mind paying circa £300p/a for road tax, and that 20-30MPG is acceptable. and would favour a V6 engine, just because, regardless of cost.

Going back to something that was brought up earlier. .a 265BHP version of the "450h" power unit in an IS would be almost pointless and probably a worse alternative to the 2.0 turbo. The weight penalty alone would wipe out any possible benefit over a just buying a 300h. (GS200t is circa 150kg lighter than a GS450h).

Shahpor · July 7, 2017

Ok, perhaps I can venture an opinion since this seems to be the never ending thread?

Personally, in my humble opinion, this thread outlived it usefulness long ago and should have been locked. I can certainly appreciate why the mods didn't do such a thing, but is it a case of quantity over quality? Freedom to post as much as you want is very good, but in this case, I think the more that is posted, the more certain people are getting wound up. So, in this case, I think it is actually in the forums best interests to let it rest before things escalate further.

Now, if I can make one more observation (which is probably going to be unpopular), I do feel that Linas has been treated a little harshly here. I have been following the thread from the start and all he did was state his opinion that he didn't like the engine on the 200t. It was plain and simple, and he didn't attack any owners directly. Being a diesel owners on this forum, I know what it feels like to be bashed by people over the choice of your car.

However, after he stated his opinion, certain individuals took it to task to try and dispute his opinion based on his reasoning. The crucial distinction here is that a person's reason's behind that opinion don't have to be logical, rational or fair.

Now, when it comes to performance statistics, there has always been a little wiggle room on exact times, and how much one car is faster than another is highly subjective.

So, to sum up, what I am trying to say is that what you have here is a difference of opinion where one party is trying to convince/disprove the others opinion. This rarely works, so the only logical course is to accept that you disagree with that person and move on. Otherwise, you get what has happened here, which is going round and round in circles while it gets more personal.

I like the fact that people on here have strong opinions, but equally, when that happens a little elbow room is required.

Just my opinion of course.