Lexus dropping 2.0T for U.K.

Martin F · July 3, 2017

10 minutes ago, dougie175 said:

Anyone else feel like this is just going round and round in circles now?

Yeah, and i think it's a trashy one !

Should help it last a few more pages

Linas.P · July 3, 2017

21 minutes ago, dougie175 said:

Anyone else feel like this is just going round and round in circles now?

Wasn't hat the case from the beginning. Some people like it, some people hate it and because it is all "gut-feeling" based the opinions are irreconcilable, especially when fan boys makes no compromises and accepts no arguments (applies for haters as well).

noby76 · July 3, 2017

3 hours ago, dougie175 said:

Anyone else feel like this is just going round and round in circles now?

I know when an IS-F could easily solve this problem .. and work out cheaper than the 40k price tag on a 340i BMW

dutchie01 · July 3, 2017

what was the topic again?

Linas.P · July 3, 2017

5 hours ago, noby76 said:

I know when an IS-F could easily solve this problem .. and work out cheaper than the 40k price tag on a 340i BMW

Not really if you want practical car. That is the problem - some people like cars with "just enough" power, but without "performance saloon" associated practical and financial issues. Perfect example of that - BMW440i - capable coupe without aforementioned issues, RC350 same, GS450h same, though it is not coupe and fairly big car... IS200t "just not enough", RC300h "just not enough"... IS-F "that is already performance saloon with associated liabilities".

I am not inventing anything new, just middle ground doesn't exist in Lexus line-up in UK. No reason to have any hard feelings - just a matter of questionable decision...

dougie175 · July 3, 2017

Oh man give it a rest now Linas please

Linas.P · July 3, 2017

18 minutes ago, dougie175 said:

Oh man give it a rest now Linas please

should I de-register from the forum as well? Isn't that the point of it?

dougie175 · July 3, 2017

Just now, Linas.P said:

should I de-register from the forum as well? Isn't that the point of it?

No need to de-register just stop waffling on, nah its not really the point of a forum

Linas.P · July 3, 2017

Actually, I know what this is - @Big Rat though there are too many people commenting on IS-F forum so he created distraction here for everyone to fight, whilst IS-F guys are enjoying alternative pics thread.

@dougie175 - what is the point then, if not to discuss the cars?

noby76 · July 3, 2017

1 hour ago, Linas.P said:

Not really if you want practical car. That is the problem - some people like cars with "just enough" power, but without "performance saloon" associated practical and financial issues. Perfect example of that - BMW440i - capable coupe without aforementioned issues, RC350 same, GS450h same, though it is not coupe and fairly big car... IS200t "just not enough", RC300h "just not enough"... IS-F "that is already performance saloon with associated liabilities".

I am not inventing anything new, just middle ground doesn't exist in Lexus line-up in UK. No reason to have any hard feelings - just a matter of questionable decision...

IS-F not a practical car?? last i checked it seats four, has four doors and a big boot... what more do you want ?make you a cup of coffee??.... yes it has over 400 bhp but doesnt mean you should use it all the time.. last i checked was one off the if not the most reliable high performance saloon in its class . if you want a middle ground use 300 of the 400 hp from the IS-F and you have your middle ground..

Linas.P · July 3, 2017

I don't even know if you are trolling or being serious. What you said about IS-F is mostly true, but it is still high performance saloon. Practical and financial issues are not only space and reliability, be that x3 times more expensive tires, brakes and other parts, insurance, road tax, fuel consumtion you name it.

That said, IS-F is not bad car (what a surprise!) - quite contrary it is very good car for what it is intended, I am just not the right person to buy it, or my circumstances in live are not right.

Similarly, you can say Bugatti Chiron is not very practical car - I mean with 1000hp+ and 6MPG is not really a daily, but it is excellent car for it's intended purpose. Contrary, IS200t and 300h are exactly not good cars - because they are not good at what they are intended for (or be that in comparison with competition), regardless of my lifestyle, they just not good cars for their intended purpose full stop.

noby76 · July 3, 2017

and you think tyres brakes, fuel consumption and insurance on a turbo 330/340 BMW will be peanuts??

dazed · July 4, 2017

On 2017-7-1 at 5:01 PM, Linas.P said:

Surely, I can do that exactly that... but Lexus not going to become better by virtue of the fact people going to abandon them and complain less.

We won't have any productive discussion if some of us not going to admit Lexus not really trying nowadays...

Lexus aren't going to build a car just because Linas knows what he wants.

Move on and buy what you really want. There's a world of choice out there.

Linas.P · July 5, 2017

On ‎04‎/‎07‎/‎2017 at 8:04 AM, dazed said:

Lexus aren't going to build a car just because Linas knows what he wants.

Move on and buy what you really want. There's a world of choice out there.

Stop thinking inside the box. It doesn't matter what I want, the fact is that IS200t or 2.0t engine was huge flop, so much in fact that Lexus is dropping this engine across the range mid-cycle. That is not what Linas wants or not happy about - there are actual problems, obvious for anyone looking to buy new car.

What is the difference between me and the rest? I am just to loyal and too patient, additionally I am active member of this forum... the rest just chooses other brands and will never come to say what they think about Lexus IS200t in this forum. But it doesn't mean it makes IS200t any better. Simply by any measurable way it is not competitive proposition by Lexus.... Are they trying to say that the only reason to buy their car is their brand badge and they don't really need to back it-up by it actually being any good? If that is sufficient for people then it is quite sad..

dougie175 · July 5, 2017

But Lexus’s market share has gone up for the last few years so surely that means they are appealing to a broader market and doing something right?

ganzoom · July 5, 2017

53 minutes ago, dougie175 said:

But Lexus’s market share has gone up for the last few years so surely that means they are appealing to a broader market and doing something right?

Driven by the NX, and I can pretty much guarantee most NX buyer couldn't careless about engine noise/0-60 times etc.

Lexus/Toyota had been pushing sales on the hybrid front, but unless they really start to take proper EVs seriously they are in danger of losing one of their biggest USPs and made to look very very outdated.

Volvo cars all electric by 2019

Customer demand is clearly heading in one direction, and it's not fuel cell cars or turbos, it's fully integrated plugin electrification. The Prius plug-in hybrid is sales is really picking up pace whilst the non plug-in version is slowly dying.

http://insideevs.com/toyota-dealers-increase-requests-prius-prime-sales-exceed-expectations/

If Lexus made an electric IS, I'll order one tomorrow - almost regardless of cost, but as it stands our IS will be gone by next year am pretty sure, the only thing stopping my wife from commdering the Tesla as her own is the size/width, but with the iPace coming next year that will be the end of our brief Lexus ownership - Though ironically it's the EV part of the IS300H drivetrain that made me look at proper EVs in the first place!!

noby76 · July 5, 2017

@Lina2017 import an IS350 from Japan.. these guys might be able to help.

http://www.japaneseimportspecialists.co.uk/ordering/orderinghow.htm

@ganzoom I thought we have already had this discussion in a previous thread that not everyone wants a full EV vehicle due to lots of various factors. 1 factor being some people want to hear mechanical parts moving together in a car..its all about how it makes the driver feel and EV will not give you that regardless of how fast one is

more over, US oil company giants will not allow a complete switch to EV cars without them having an influence due to the amount of revenue generated from the sale of oil.

ganzoom · July 5, 2017

10 minutes ago, noby76 said:

@ganzoom I thought we have already had this discussion in a previous thread that not everyone wants a full EV vehicle due to lots of various factors. 1 factor being some people want to hear mechanical parts moving together in a car..its all about how it makes the driver feel and EV will not give you that regardless of how fast one i

Surely that is the point of this post, the 2.0T in the IS makes a better noise than the 300H, has plenty more mechanical parts, and is faster....Yet it's been a total sales flop compared to the IS300H - which it self is hardly a roaring sales success.

@Linas.P has summed up with whole thread, 5 pages worth of 'discussion' about a powertrain the car buying public clearly has no interest it. It really doesn't matter what people on this forum think/want, it's sales to the general public who will decide what companies do.

noby76 · July 5, 2017

but we can all agree the benefits in terms of running costs i.e insurance ,car tax and mainly fuel consumption has made the 300h an attractive one compared to the 200T. but for someone who wants to Drive will always opt for the 200t if given the choice of both without those running cost factors in fact if Lexus was the one paying for the road tax and fuel cost on both models i can bet you sales of 200T will shoot up.

UK250 · July 5, 2017

Isn’t the UK one of the biggest market for Lexus in Europe after Russia ? I heard sales of Lexus in UK and Europe gone up last few years or is that increase just for hybrids only ? As I notice some European countries offer the GS200t that’s not offered in UK and NX200t is available in the cheaper non f-sport trim and in 2WD whereas UK offer it F-sport 4WD only, and also several reports about petrol powered cars increased due to the VW scandal so would of thought it be bad time for Lexus to discontinue the 200t (understandable if they discontinued it or not release it for UK before the VW scandal when diesel cars was at its peak), also could it be to do with marketing the IS200t ?? or lack of marketing / promoting it ? I remember when the 3 Gen IS was released, all they did was market the IS300h whether it’s a TV commercial or magazine and even radio, however no mention of the 250 or more recently the 200t, it seems Lexus also promote and market the hybrid cars !!

Linas.P · July 5, 2017

3 hours ago, noby76 said:

@Lina2017 import an IS350 from Japan.. these guys might be able to help.

http://www.japaneseimportspecialists.co.uk/ordering/orderinghow.htm

@ganzoom I thought we have already had this discussion in a previous thread that not everyone wants a full EV vehicle due to lots of various factors. 1 factor being some people want to hear mechanical parts moving together in a car..its all about how it makes the driver feel and EV will not give you that regardless of how fast one is

more over, US oil company giants will not allow a complete switch to EV cars without them having an influence due to the amount of revenue generated from the sale of oil.

First of all if I would import anything, it would be RC350, definitely not IS. Secondly, it only makes sense to import gas guzzlers and "vintage cars" from Japan because of how taxation works there and it is cheaper e.g. Supra or Honda NSX would be the ones to import. IS/RC350 would cost more in Japan + shipping costs + duties ~ end result would be in BMW i8 range (or Lexus LC if you find that as more appropriate example). Then I would pay double to insurance... that is just ridiculous to discuss - definatelly not an option to import new car from there..

On second point - yes not all people want pure EV... that is why you have something called plug-in hybrids. IS/RC300h would make perfect sense if, they would have ~30miles pure EV range, CC exempt, parking advantages etc. It wouldn't make it less sluggish, but then I would say - you know what... never mind it is compliance vehicle ad it has other benefits. Now IS/RC300h are neither very compliant, nor good driver cars... just kind of mediocre performance hybrid aka Prius in nice packaging.

@ganzoom - you are right, NX is driving sales, I am sure IS is quite popular as well.... but that is 300h ... 200t is completely forgotten and you will never see one in the wild except of dealerships.

@noby76 - 300h is not that attractive as mentioned above, but 200t is even worse... not only it doesn't have any limited benefits of 300h, but it doesn't even nice to drive so that you can call it "car for somebody who cares how it drives"... people who cares how the car drives buys BMW.

@UK250 - Yes UK is the biggest market, but in comparison to US it is still tiny. What is more it doesn't matter how big market is for you, what matter is how big you are in the market and Lexus is little in UK... BMW sells more M3's in UK than Lexus sells cars overall.

paulrnx · July 5, 2017

On 6/29/2017 at 10:09 PM, peachy said:

Not the impression I got when I drove the turbo for the day.

Despite its healthy power ratings, the IS 200t felt oddly slow in acceleration for a 4 pot turbo.my wife's 328i (2 litre turbo) will beat it to 60 mph by a pretty wide margin.

I was comparing an IS200t with an IS250, 2nd and 3rd gen car, and an IS300h. You seem to be comparing an IS200t with a 328i

noby76 · July 5, 2017

40 minutes ago, Linas.P said:

people who cares how the car drives buys BMW.

But thats what BMW has sold to you... tell you 1 thing real drivers look past the badge... nice cars but overrated in my opinion.

paulrnx · July 5, 2017

On 6/30/2017 at 1:11 PM, peachy said:

Have to disagree with you on that one noby76.

Ive owned a variety of motors over the years and none of them sound as good as the lexus V6.

You've got to push it though to hear it and when it roars up it turns heads.

My wife's bmw is a properly quick car but sounds no nowhere near as nice as the lexus.

Now the old bmw 328i with the 2.8 litre inline 6 cylinder engine was a superb sounding motor. Much much nicer than the 2 litre turbo charged engine that is still badged as a 328i for some reason.

In days long ago BMW had a simple model naming convention whereby the first number was the series and the second & third the engine size. Nowadays, the second and third numbers denote the position of the car in the range. Been this way for some time now

paulrnx · July 5, 2017

On 7/1/2017 at 1:06 AM, peachy said:

At the end of the day it's not hard to see why lexus have decided to pull the plug on the is200t in the uk.

The majority of people looking to buy a 2 litre turbo charged vehicle are looking for a powerful and rapid car.

The lexus turbo simply does not cut the mustard compared to the majority of 4 pot turbos available today. Nobody wants it.

Yes sure it's quicker than the 250 but for a modern 2 litre turbo its a snail.

Believe an IS200t is about 145MPH flat out and 0-60 in 7s. Hardly a snail in my book. Quite a bit quicker than your IS250 too