2006 GS450H CHECK HYBRID SYSTEM

[mrdoofa]

As you all know I very recently bought a 2006 GS450H and have been really liking the car.

Today I went and started it up, the engine started up then I got the EML and red warning triangle and CHECK HYBRID SYSTEM on the display and the engine then cut out. I tried it a couple of times and it kept happening, had to leave the car then and borrow my mums car because I had to get to work.

It was fine when I drove it last night and parked it up, the only thing that's happened today is having a windscreen stone chip repaired by Autoglass. Any ideas what might've happened? I'm dreading the worst!!!

My mum dealt with the AG man and she said he did quite a bit of fiddling about to try and get the odo reading. Neither of them realised the button is on the drop down panel. Anyway, any help or ideas would be appreciated!!! BTW the hybrid Battery says 3/4 full on the central screen. Cheers!!!

[Britprius]

The first thing to do is to put the 12volt Battery on charge for a short while. If the 12 volt Battery is low "possibly because the doors were left open for some time" it can give rise to false warnings being given. If your 12 volt Battery is the original it is at the end of it's life, and will have little capacity left. The Battery is in the boot under the carpet cover on the passengers side.

Try to find out if the "AG man" tried to jump start the car.

John. 

[mrdoofa]

Just a quick update, got back from work and went to look at the car again, the engine fired up easily but then idled very unsteadily and I could also hear what I would describe as a grating sound then after about 5 seconds it cut out, also in addition to the CHECK HYBRID SYSTEM I now also have CHECK VSC and CHECK ECB on the display. I also have the traction control light lit and a yellow exclamation mark symbol illuminated.

[Britprius]

I have to admit that does not sound good. If you bought the car from a trader my first port of call would be with them. With the lights that you have illuminated there will be fault codes stored in the ECU, and these need to be gathered to asses the problem.

John.

[mrdoofa]

Thanks for your help, I've been in touch with the trader and he just said book it into my nearest Lexus dealer, get it fixed and they will pay the bill. I'm expecting that might change when they get the quote for the work!!! They have to do something though, I've only had it 3 weeks and already it's unfit for purpose!!!

Its booked in on Thursday for an £85 diagnosis. Luckily my mum is letting me borrow her car to get to work whilst it gets sorted.

This is the second Lexus I've had that's gone catastrophically wrong without warning and left me completely stranded, the first was an LS430. I must admit I'm starting to think this reputation Lexus has for reliability is nothing more than a myth.

[tonyricha]

Good luck mate, wait to hear before you loise faith in the brand. Plenty massive mileage motors on here still running well.

[mrdoofa]

After my little rant earlier another small update.

I went to the car again today and once again the engine started but this time ran nice and smooth with no strange sounds etc but still cut out after about 5 seconds with same error messages. After that when I switched the ignition on the engine would no longer try to start perhaps because the 12v Battery was now too depleted.

When the man from autoglass repaired the chipped windscreen my mum said he did have the doors open for about half an hour then messed about long enough with just the ignition on trying to find the odo display because I had it set on trip A. It wasn't until my mum went out and interrupted him from just pressing all buttons randomly to ask what the problem was that he stopped. He then said I'm trying to find the odometer. I wish people would come and ask rather than just randomly messing around with someone else's property!!! It just seems too much of a coincidence that the car was absolutely fine until then.

It is for these reasons that I'm thinking more and more that it could be the 12v Battery run low, the problem is I don't have a charger!!! Aaarrrggghhh!!!

I suspect it's still the original Battery as it's Panasonic, I'm thinking it won't do any harm to try a new Battery as it's probably on it's last legs anyway. I'm going to halfrauds tomorrow but the question is, what Battery do I need to buy because when I put the reg in the website it won't find anything. Also, is it easy to change the Battery yourself with the temp sensor etc. Finally, will the faults disappear on their own if a new Battery does work or do I need to get them reset?

Thanks once again for your help!!! I don't want to lose faith in the brand because I really like Lexus it's just that when 2 cars go like this it becomes a bit disheartening.

[Farqui]

Take a look here http://www.lexusownersclub.co.uk/forum/topic/108151-12v-battery-kaput/

Sorry it's a brief reply, i'm out atm

[Britprius]

Much as I would wish the problem is just the 12 volt Battery on reflection I do not think this is the only problem. I do believe initially this was a problem. Once the engine is running the 12 volt Battery takes no further part in the running of the vehicle as the DC to DC converter (this is used to charge the 12 volt Battery from the high voltage battery) takes over the electrical supply requirements.

Also the fact that the engine starts, and then cuts out after some seconds "time not defined by the OP" is not normal operation. The engine would not cut out until it is warm.

Do not be put off the brand because of your unfortunate experience with two vehicles. Buying second hand sometimes does present problems, but as long as the seller holds to his responsibilities the outcome should be good.

John

[cruisermark]

Well if this is the hybrid Battery cells starting to fail the we know what the Lexus dealer will say - they will only install a new Battery - Battery problems in the gs450h are known on this forum and can be expected after 100k miles - individual cells start to fail causing the above messages - but let's see what the dealer says.

[mrdoofa]

I've just gone into the diagnostics mode on the touchscreen by holding down the info button and flicking headlights on and off 3 times, the Battery voltage said 11.2v so would probably benefit from replacing regardless. The thing that gets me is the coincidence of it all, it was absolutely fine until autoglass had it. I can get a new suitable Battery for £73 with a 3 year guarantee. Are they easy to DIY install because the car can't be driven to a garage to fit it!!! Is it right that you just tape the temperature sensor to the top of the new Battery? Is it safe to just tape off the end of the vent hose and leave disconnected? Thanks again everybody!!!

I was actually taken aback by how reasonable the dealer has been (so far!!!). The lady at Lexus spoke to him to get permission to do the £85 diagnosis on Thursday and she said the same. I'm a member of greenflag and they are going to flat bed the car to Lexus on Wednesday afternoon.

[Britprius]

Yes just tape the temp sensor to the top of the Battery. Most batteries have one or more vent connectors but this is not critical.

John

[mrdoofa]

9 minutes ago, Britprius said:

Yes just tape the temp sensor to the top of the battery. Most batteries have one or more vent connectors but this is not critical.

John

Cheers John. I thought the car would benefit from a new Battery anyway as it was reading 11.2v. Is that very low for these cars and possibly enough to trigger warning messages?

I'll let you know how I get on once I've installed it. It'll be tomorrow now because I've just bought the Battery and typically it's started pouring down now, it's supposed to be dry tomorrow though.

[mrdoofa]

I fitted the new 12v Battery but sadly, as I was half expecting, it didn't work!!

The engine fired up when I pressed the power button but sounded quite rough and cut out after 6 or 7 seconds. I could also hear some roughness from what I think is the transmission as I could feel it through the gear knob too. I switched it all off and tried again one more time, the engine fired up again but stalled after the same 6 or 7 seconds with the CHECK HYBRID SYSTEM, CHECK ECB and CHECK VSC messages showing but the READY light was also lit, I moved the gear lever to D to see if the car would move but it wouldn't, the gear didn't even engage so I put it back in P, turned it all off and left it. I also noticed that the hybrid Battery charge level would sometimes jump from 1 purple bar to 6 blue bars, when it showed 1 purple bar the engine wouldn't start but when it went to 6 blue bars it would start.

Do you think it needs a new transmission or new Battery or both? How much is this likely to cost the dealer? 

[Hangie]

It is really hard to tell. My recommendation would be don't try blindly try to make it working.

it won't get better by itself obviously even if you try ach morning.

if there is a problem with the engine by running it in that state you can easly make it worse. What you need to do is check all the fault codes and locate the source of the roughes if you can. If you can't just leave it and ask someone who can.

 

roughest can come from many sources, head/valve/vtc, timing chain, crank area, ignition system, fuel system, engine management and so on and on.  You need to know for what to look/hear for. I would focus on the engine first, vibrations could be easly pass on the gearbox but it doesn't mean something is wrong in it. When was the last time when spark plugs were changed - should been done every 60k.

[royoftherovers]

Hangie is right. Just leave it alone and let the Dealer who supplied the vehicle do all of the necessary.

Regards

John

[mrdoofa]

I'm leaving it well alone now, it's going to Lexus on Thursday for a diagnosis. I can't tell you how disappointed I am, I've only had it 3 weeks and already the car can't be used, at least I got 2 months out of the LS430!!! The thing that gets me is that once again there was no warning or other symptoms before it went kaput.

At least this time the dealer I bought it from is stepping up to the mark (so far!!!), the LS430 was bought privately so I had no come back on that. I just hope it doesn't prove so expensive that the dealer decides to give a refund because I want this car!!!

[messi]

I was leaning towards the Gs450h, but after reading all this and problems other members have had, I think I'll forget about it.

 

Mr Doofa, did you do any research before you bought the car? I only ask because reading some of the things on here about issues with the gs450h, I don't think I'd ever have one, unless the person I'm buying from, has had all the issues sorted 

[Britprius]

The only other reliability issue that I am aware of is the possibility of leaking shock absorbers that are exorbitantly priced.

The HV Battery is not so much of a problem as these can be refurbished by people such as Richard at Hybrid Battery Solutions at very reasonable cost in fact not much more than Lexus charge to replace one shockabsorber. I was quoted supply and fit one front shockabsorber by Lexus Wolverhampton an eye watering £656-66

At around 10 years the rear exhaust may need replacing, but is the same basic exhaust across the GS Lexus range and others. 

John

[mrdoofa]

32 minutes ago, messi said:

I was leaning towards the Gs450h, but after reading all this and problems other members have had, I think I'll forget about it.

 

Mr Doofa, did you do any research before you bought the car? I only ask because reading some of the things on here about issues with the gs450h, I don't think I'd ever have one, unless the person I'm buying from, has had all the issues sorted 

I did do research and carried out various checks to see if the hybrid system was working correctly which it passed easily. I've had many cars from many different makes over the years and the only 2 that have left me completely abandoned and unable to drive the car without warning have been Lexus which for a brand that has built it's reputation around reliability is very poor. I know any car can have faults and problems, I just don't like how these fail so catastrophically and without warning. Maybe I'm just unlucky, the one Lexus I did have which never gave me a problem was the mk4 LS400.

we'll see what Thursday brings, if the dealer does what he should and pays for all the necessary repairs I could end up with a really good car back again which will give no more problems for a long time, that's the hope at least!!!

[aviator888]

Hope you'll get this sorted, Keep us posted :) 

[mrdoofa]

Ok, here's the current situation.

Lexus have had the car for 2 days and have reported the following:

Needs new hybrid Battery - £2,300

Seized rear calipers - £650

NSF shock absorber dangerous - £795

Exhaust blowing - £845

3 of these items I didn't even want looking at, the car passed the MOT with no advisories only last month!!! They then said they still haven't finished diagnosing!!!

The dealer I bought it from has now decided to take the car back and give me a full refund, to be honest they have been very good throughout. They are giving a full refund, paying Lexus for the diagnostic and arranging for the car to be taken back to them. 

I still can't believe that the car was working absolutely perfectly then all of a sudden to completely fail with no warning or other symptoms. Is this how they normally go?

That leaves me shopping for another car, I'm really sad because the GS450h was the perfect car for me, perfect size, lots of gadgets, very fast, not bad on fuel, comfortable. I'd like another but am now very wary!!! Is there really no way of telling the car has problems before it goes kaput? Any other checks you can do?

Thanks again for all your help, I am car less now and need a replacement soon as I am using my mums car at the moment.

[messi]

This is why i would rather buy a car from a private individual with a good service history or Lexus dealers (if I can afford it, which i can't). The reason I wouldn't buy from other traders is because they have their own mot guy who will pass the mot no matter what,  just so the trader can sell the car. I mean he must have known about the other 3 issues and still passed it and not even put it down as an advisory.

At least he's giving you a full refund though.

[Hangie]

As for the hybryd bateries - by one which still got warranty for the hybrid system.

 

[Farqui]

 

Crumbs, you've been unlucky there and pretty much got every possible issue with the car.

 

 

Dealer charges are excessive tho, many of your issues can most likely be fixed cheaper e.g. calipers, shocks.

 

 

Even the Hybrid Battery could be repaired much cheaper by a specialist.

 

 

Good to hear that the dealer has taken responsibility.

 

 

Try looking for a car with a Hybrid warranty in place, less than 10yrs old. Lexus charges £60 for a Hybrid healthcheck.

 

 

Keep looking cos they're a great car. Good luck.