Transmission Fluid Replacement

[Silversalmon]

Evening, I have a 2010 RX450h and was curious if anyone had had their transmission fluid changed? I know in some cars it can be quite complex but I spotted this on youtube. 

 

I dont have the facilities, or inclination to be fair, but was just wondering if anyone else has had their oil changed? 

[rayaans]

I'm pretty sure it's supposed to be lifetime on the 450h. Sometimes America just dies things for the sake of it - like changing oil every 5k

[katabrontes]

In Cyprus it is also recommended to change the oil every 5K - as our mechanic says "oil's cheap, engines aren't"

[sorcerer]

Maybe I'm paranoid but I've never believed the "lifetime" claim for Toyota's (or anyone's) transmission fluid and would always replace it at some point.

[steve2006]

25 minutes ago, katabrontes said:

In Cyprus it is also recommended to change the oil every 5K - as our mechanic says "oil's cheap, engines aren't"

Are you talking engine or transmission oil here Michael, engine oil as you say is cheap but Toyota transmission fluid is very expensive at around €50.00 for 5 litres here in the U.K.

Coming over to Protaras in a few weeks, can I borrow your RX please ? 

[Britprius]

I believe with a hybrid vehicle where the are high voltage "700 volts" electric motors with the winding's in the transmission oil it is a good idea to change the oil after the first 10,000 miles " to remove any ware in metal parasitical's", and then every 30,000 miles to remove possible acid build up. Metal in the oil is not only abrasive to the conformal coating on the motor windings. It is also conductive giving the possibility of winding short circuits. Oil also tends to turn acidic after periods of use also not good for electrical insulation.

Electrical transformers are often oil cooled, but even this oil with no mechanical mechanisms working in it is changed periodically because of acid build up.

On the Prius forums it has long been found that after the first 10,000 miles of use the oil comes out black. After this period at 30,000 miles it comes out comparatively clean, but has lost much of it's viscosity.

For those hybrid transmissions that also have clutches or brake bands the material shed by both the linings and the drums must also have a detrimental affect.

The use of the correct oil is also a must with the hybrid. Many oils will have the correct lubrication properties, but not all will have the desired electrical insulation properties.

John. 

[katabrontes]

Sorry Steve the RX is in UK.  Cyprus is a Vitz.  Enjoy your stay in Protaras.

BTW it was engine oil but even at £50 every 10 years or so it's a lot cheaper than a new gearbox.

[rayaans]

54 minutes ago, Britprius said:

I believe with a hybrid vehicle where the are high voltage "700 volts" electric motors with the winding's in the transmission oil it is a good idea to change the oil after the first 10,000 miles " to remove any ware in metal parasitical's", and then every 30,000 miles to remove possible acid build up. Metal in the oil is not only abrasive to the conformal coating on the motor windings. It is also conductive giving the possibility of winding short circuits. Oil also tends to turn acidic after periods of use also not good for electrical insulation.

Electrical transformers are often oil cooled, but even this oil with no mechanical mechanisms working in it is changed periodically because of acid build up.

On the Prius forums it has long been found that after the first 10,000 miles of use the oil comes out black. After this period at 30,000 miles it comes out comparatively clean, but has lost much of it's viscosity.

For those hybrid transmissions that also have clutches or brake bands the material shed by both the linings and the drums must also have a detrimental affect.

The use of the correct oil is also a must with the hybrid. Many oils will have the correct lubrication properties, but not all will have the desired electrical insulation properties.

John. 

In the grand scheme of things - don't think it really matters.

Haven't ever come across an RX hybrid with a duff gearbox due to not changing transmission oil, not even heard of it.

Lexus, the most reliable luxury brand in the world wouldn't risk their reputation on transmission oil if they felt it needed to be done

[Britprius]

1 minute ago, rayaans said:

In the grand scheme of things - don't think it really matters.

Haven't ever come across an RX hybrid with a duff gearbox due to not changing transmission oil, not even heard of it.

Lexus, the most reliable luxury brand in the world wouldn't risk their reputation on transmission oil if they felt it needed to be done

Maybe, but the GS450H has problems with it's transmission oil pump, and only cost circa £2600 for a new unit, and all through lack of suitable lubrication. Sealing the pump motor and allowing the transmission fluid into it would have resolved the problem or fitting slightly more expensive "pennies" full complement bearings. So much for brand reputation.

Replacement bearings cost around £7.

John.

[Silversalmon]

I'd like to thank everyone for their thoughts on this matter. We have a lot of very bright people in the club, I knew I would get an excellent quality of response and that's what I got. Although I paid for an additional warranty till December 2019 I will still ask just how expensive it would be to change it. I don't doubt Lexus build quality but the same oil for ten or more years??

Although the video appears to show a simple process my old Mercedes C Class  (also sealed for life) definitely felt better for an oil change at 50K miles. I do intend to keep the car for a good few years (My wife tells me that is the case) so I'm just keen on avoiding any issues down the line.

Thanks guys, always brilliant.

Ed in Glasgow

[tom123]

31 minutes ago, Silversalmon said:

I'd like to thank everyone for their thoughts on this matter. We have a lot of very bright people in the club, I knew I would get an excellent quality of response and that's what I got. Although I paid for an additional warranty till December 2019 I will still ask just how expensive it would be to change it. I don't doubt Lexus build quality but the same oil for ten or more years??

Although the video appears to show a simple process my old Mercedes C Class  (also sealed for life) definitely felt better for an oil change at 50K miles. I do intend to keep the car for a good few years (My wife tells me that is the case) so I'm just keen on avoiding any issues down the line.

Thanks guys, always brilliant.

Ed in Glasgow

'Lifetime' in car terms of course means 10 years or 100,000 miles maximum. Nothing is designed to last any longer than that. 

I had a quote from a Lexus main dealer for a CVT box oil change - was about £260 for parts plus labour if I remember correctly, although when it came to it they didn't change the oil as the service manager told me that the technician has dip-sticked the transmission oil and found no trace of metal particles.

 

[HenryK]

On 6/4/2017 at 8:12 AM, sorcerer said:

Maybe I'm paranoid but I've never believed the "lifetime" claim for Toyota's (or anyone's) transmission fluid and would always replace it at some point.

When the ATF is worn out, the transmission’s life doesn't have much time left.

Corrosion inhibitors gradually lose effectiveness. Viscosity extenders wear out. All lubricants degrade with time and use. Pumps chop long molecules into shorter ones.

[Delphius1]

On 1/5/2021 at 6:38 AM, HenryK said:

When the ATF is worn out, the transmission’s life doesn't have much time left.

Corrosion inhibitors gradually lose effectiveness. Viscosity extenders wear out. All lubricants degrade with time and use. Pumps chop long molecules into shorter ones.

Yep, I second that. 

It's usually accepted that "lifetime" generally has a limit of 100,000 miles, although on transmissions that are known to have issues with old transmission fluid, it can be prudent to replace the fluid every 50,000 miles. 

Just my opinion and what I've heard from mechanics. What manufacturers call lifetime has a different definition from what a normal person would infer from the word. 

"Lifetime" can be the warranty period (as short as 3 years), or the intended lifetime of that model from the manufacturers point of view (maybe 5-10 years),  or it could be mileage (usually 100,000 miles).

Basically it's marketing-speak for as long as it takes for punters to stop bringing the car back to main dealers for service so it becomes someone else's problem. 🙂

 

 

[Barry14UK]

This is a subject often debated on other forums and on balance I think forum members who almost certainly pay more attention to this than motorists in general, consider that best policy for a 'keeper' is to change transmission oil by about 70K miles .  I did this on my Mercedes 3.2 as it was very straightforward, dropping the sump and changing the screen at the same time but there was a dipstick and a very easy process to follow.  I had an independent do it on my BMW at about 75K miles as the process was a little more involved.  It has become even more involved on the RX hybrids at least but if you want to do it yourself you can buy the expensive elaborate system Lexus use or say watch how Fay Hadley does it 

I have worked out another way but an not suggesting it as I have not yet tried it and it depends whether I change for something else as I am only just over 40K at present.