Is250 remap

Texas · December 28, 2018

If he's that confident then he should be getting you in contact with willing 'satisfied' previous customers! To clinch another job!

paul m.

Linas.P · December 28, 2018

2 hours ago, baviaannl said:

To add to this mystery... My backbox fell off so I've booked into an exhaust workshop and I'm having a custom SS fitted. At the time of booking he offered me a deal on a remap, he reckoned he could do a stage 1 increase to 228 HP 272NM. He told me he's only been able to offer this on the IS250 as recently as 3 weeks ago and has had nearly 10 in as a result with great results.

Have any of those 10 been from this forum? I didn't go for it, would like to see some before and after charts personally.

The only way to know is - do Dyno before, do Dyno after and if it is not 228 and 272, get refund.

I said that before and I will saying it 100 times again until proven wrong with some factual data. IS250 does 204hp at flywheel, meaning on the dyno you get ~ 180hp, 170hp maybe. For him to say he can do 228 - that has to be WHP... otherwise how does he measure?! does he take engine out and dynos on flywheel? 228WHP, would be like 260-270hp flywheel.... no way on earth possible on N/A 2.5L V6 without heavy modifications. I mean c'mon 4L V8 does like 280hp... this is simple physics - where is that power coming from?!

Obviously, transmission loss can be estimated, so if 170~204, then 180~216.. but that is witchcraft at best of the times. My trust falls right at the moment he claims he can do 228... How does he know?! Any reasonable tuner would put your car on Dyno first - check how much it is making and only then would advise what he can do... maybe 5%, ok if you car makes 170, then he can make it do 179, now we are talking.

The question here is simple - would you pay the money he is asking for extra 24hp and 20NM? If yes, then it is just a question of him being able to prove he can do it on your car, which means again dyno before dyno after. If no, then what is the point - just knowing that in theory that is possible?

baviaannl · December 28, 2018

10 minutes ago, Linas.P said:

The only way to know is - do Dyno before, do Dyno after and if it is not 228 and 272, get refund.

I said that before and I will saying it 100 times again until proven wrong with some factual data. IS250 does 204hp at flywheel, meaning on the dyno you get ~ 180hp, 170hp maybe. For him to say he can do 228 - that has to be WHP... otherwise how does he measure?! does he take engine out and dynos on flywheel? 228WHP, would be like 260-270hp flywheel.... no way on earth possible on N/A 2.5L V6 without heavy modifications. I mean c'mon 4L V8 does like 280hp... this is simple physics - where is that power coming from?!

Obviously, transmission loss can be estimated, so if 170~204, then 180~216.. but that is witchcraft at best of the times. My trust falls right at the moment he claims he can do 228... How does he know?! Any reasonable tuner would put your car on Dyno first - check how much it is making and only then would advise what he can do... maybe 5%, ok if you car makes 170, then he can make it do 179, now we are talking.

The question here is simple - would you pay the money he is asking for extra 24hp and 20NM? If yes, then it is just a question of him being able to prove he can do it on your car, which means again dyno before dyno after. If no, then what is the point - just knowing that in theory that is possible?

I agree with your points, and is the reason I'm not giving him my money. I can't find any of his happy customers on this site either and if it was that good, people would be talking about it.

Shaunomercy · December 28, 2018

To be honest, in view of the remap hp claims, I think I'd be giving him a wide birth and not having exhaust done there either.
When people make claims like that on a naturally aspirated engine, then I'd be thinking he is trying to have me for a fool..

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Kaminet · May 18, 2019

I have just remaped my 07 is250, and whatever the gains are... If any... The exhaust sounds throaty (quite possibly the flaps are permanently open),car is noticeably sharper and does 0-60 in 7 seconds. It pulls strong and steady until 3.5-4k rpm and you get a good vvti kick, which I haven't had before. I'm guessing that "the gains" are going to be unnoticeable after a few days, they're not crazy wild, it is an NA engine after all... But the car is really sharp and lively, with intentions of misbehaving 😏

Stock everything atm, apart from a K&N filter and a remap.

Will be undergoing lung surgery later on with manifold, highflow cat, cat back exhaust...

Linas.P · May 21, 2019

Say that I am overly "suspicious", but I would not believe above claim until I see independent before and after dyno results. I am familiar with the feeling that changes suddenly improves how your car drives regardless if even if they defy common sense - from this perspective I don't want to shatter your dreams and I hope you will continue to enjoy your car anyway....

Here are few issues:

engine mapping cannot improve exhaust sound - there are literally no physical part (no flaps) which could do that.
engine mapping cannot make DVVT-i to kick in sooner - DVVT-i is oil pressure controlled system and will always starts at the same time. DVVT-i does not kick (like VTEC), maybe they have reset your gearbox "ECU" and now gearbox have "re-learned" your driving style. The only kick you could get in IS250 is when you reset ECU and drive the car like you stole it for first few miles and gearbox trying to adapt you your style starts changing gears rather "jerky".
thus - 1 again, mapping won't keep your exhaust valves open for longer.
K&N filter improves intake noise from engine (and that is what many people describe as "throaty"), however even though I have it fitted in my car I do not believe it improves the performance, certainly not to the level that you would be able to feel.
IS250 could do 0-60 in ~7.5s, that has been confirmed by several people around here and I have tried it many times. It may do it in 7s... maybe downhill.

rich1068 · May 21, 2019

You're such a spoilsport Linas

ColinBarber · May 22, 2019

On 5/21/2019 at 6:27 PM, Linas.P said:

2. engine mapping cannot make DVVT-i to kick in sooner - DVVT-i is oil pressure controlled system and will always starts at the same time. DVVT-i does not kick (like VTEC), maybe they have reset your gearbox "ECU" and now gearbox have "re-learned" your driving style. The only kick you could get in IS250 is when you reset ECU and drive the car like you stole it for first few miles and gearbox trying to adapt you your style starts changing gears rather "jerky".

I also doubt the gains however the above isn't technically correct. The VVT system uses oil pressure to mechanically alter the timing but the oil is controlled electronically by the ECU via an oil control valve and actuators. It is therefore possible to remap the timing system - typically via a piggyback ECU as the stock control unit isn't reprogrammable.

The engine/intake also contains an ACIS valve which shortens the length of the intake manifold, and this does suddenly close which causes some sort of kick and change in noise - this feature is common to many Toyota engines since 1980s.

Linas.P · May 22, 2019

21 minutes ago, ColinBarber said:

I also doubt the gains however the above isn't technically correct. The VVT system uses oil pressure to mechanically alter the timing but the oil is controlled electronically by the ECU via an oil control valve and actuators. It is therefore possible to remap the timing system - typically via a piggyback ECU as the stock control unit isn't reprogrammable.

The engine/intake also contains an ACIS valve which shortens the length of the intake manifold, and this does suddenly close which causes some sort of kick and change in noise - this feature is common to many Toyota engines since 1980s.

I think what is more important to note here (and you kind of mentioned it with piggyback ECU) - neither is programmable in stock-ECU. Meaning that whatever "remap" was done on the car - it could not change how these components work.

If you note original post - the claim was that exhaust was more "throaty" not intake. I am well aware of ACIS, but it would not change the way exhaust sounds.

ColinBarber · May 22, 2019

1 minute ago, Linas.P said:

the claim was that exhaust was more "throaty" not intake

I wasn't commenting on that, but yes that is nonsense.

Kaminet · May 24, 2019

You do realise I'm talking about my car, right? I've driven it before... I'm driving it after... And to my surprise I can still notice difference in both noise and behaviour... Whatever the changes the map has done, they are there. The "throaty" exhaust comes from the combination of both less restrictive air filter and remap. There are mechanical parts to the exhaust system and the dvvt-I system is reprogrammable... which in turn leads to change in behaviour. And yes you're correct... to an extent, the factory unit isn't OBD reprogrammable... it had to undergo surgery.

Kaminet · May 24, 2019

And just to add to the confusion, 2000 miles after that and not entirely conservative ( 😜)driving, daily commute of about 110miles, plus amazon Flex my combined mpg all round is approaching the unattainable factory figures.

So you tell me of whether it is worth it, or not...

Texas · May 24, 2019

No conservative driving here ( or I would of got a Prius and not a V6!), all stock ( engine wise) and I'm getting this...

.

above two screen shots are after doing 3 Uni Viewing runs!

and below is 'normal' use in PWR mode (Hhmmmmmm!!!)

Shaunomercy · May 24, 2019

Kaminet.
How do you get a throaty exhaust, when nothings actually changed ?
You've not changed out the cats for sports cats, nor a resonator delete, nor catback system ?

Placebo effect M8...

In all honesty you should have had the car dyno'd before and then after..

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Kaminet · May 24, 2019

7 hours ago, Texas said:

No conservative driving here ( or I would of got a Prius and not a V6!), all stock ( engine wise) and I'm getting this...

.

above two screen shots are after doing 3 Uni Viewing runs!

and below is 'normal' use in PWR mode (Hhmmmmmm!!!)

Not being funny, but you won't get nothing nowhere near that after an amazon Flex route... Comparing apples to oranges... Not for nothing I mentioned it...

Just how stubborn ya'll got to be to try and convince me, after trying to be as realistic as possible about the whole thing, that my car does feel and sound different than before?!

Not bragging, not saying it's economically justified, or does something that improves an already fairly above the mark good all rounded vehicle, not even saying it is worth it for the aforementioned reasons... It does do something, and whatever it is, it makes the car feel a lot, and I mean a lot, better than before. (Especially if you disable the electronic nannies and try to have a bit of fun)

Average tank is atm 35.9 MPG... You'll have to take my word for it...

rich1068 · May 24, 2019

It's your car. You like it. You like it even more now.

A bit of a pile on going on from the LOC members which I think is a little unfair.

is200 Newbie · May 24, 2019

I just thought i would add something to this post regarding some work i done on my last 2007 IS which may be something or nothing.

I am not a mechanic or anything like that and i only done this as a bit of a project for myself. No measurements were taken before or after as thats not why i done it.

After issues with the original exhaust on my car not long after i bought it i had it replaced with a stainless cat back system. This was too loud for me as the drone was unbearable at certain speeds and revs where the car would sit when on the motorway or around town. I got it into my head as to how hard it would be to make my own exhaust. So i went about doing the homework to the point where i ordered all the parts and welded it up myself. It was a good match when done as i managed to use the cat back system as a guide for the routing and bends required.

I replaced the centre resonator with a slightly smaller IS200 one and the back boxes were Rover ZT sport ones which were twin exhausts. So i ended up with quad exhausts. The difference in the drive of the car was very very noticeable - i had upgraded the size of the pipe used also to i think it was either 3.5 of 4 inch from the cats to the resonator to the boxes. No tuning or other mods apart from an oiled K&N filter that was in the car for years.

I cant say what the improvement was but it was a marked improvement. Probably the improved air flow from the exhaust. I done a bit of homework on scavenging gasses and back pressure before doing this but without the proper knowledge of what i had actually changed i was happy with the result. Unfortunately the car was murdered by someone rear ending me on a junction. So its possible to improve on it but by how much i cant say.

is200 Newbie · May 24, 2019

Sorry - PC froze - Dont know why this posted 3 times??!!

Kaminet · May 24, 2019

1 hour ago, rich1068 said:

It's your car. You like it. You like it even more now.

A bit of a pile on going on from the LOC members which I think is a little unfair.

Well, thank you, for acknowledging the fact that they're a bit too happy to say it won't work...

This topic has been going for a while, and as far as I can tell - I am the first to actually try it... So, there it is...

And I only posted, as to clarify that a remap on is250 is possible, I know at least one man that can do it, and I trusted his abilities enough to put my own car in his hands.

IS250 is an NA engine, so the best you could hope as rough numbers in performance are 10% across the board. Period. Whether we like it or not this is it. The difference the remap does to the car comes in an improvement of how the power is delivered and then distributed.

Dynoing before and after... who's paying for all that?! Just to prove that there's, respectfully there isn't change in performance?! I'm of the type of people for whom the proof is in the pudding... I know someone that remaps vehicles, and his reputation is bulletproof as far as I'm concerned. I've seen people travelling from Belgium, Germany and France going to him to get their cars evaluated and tuned (he's Honda specialist). If he can't do it, or it isn't worth it, he won't do it. He declined me at first... but then he found a way of bypassing the Denso ECU encryption and as you can see on the pic above - my ECU is out of the car, and onto my kitchen table, yep he came to mine, and I've been an eyewitness of the whole thing. Wouldn't have trusted probably anyone else with this, if I have to be honest. But he has done a good job, and so far I can only tap myself on the back for doing it, knowing that this could make absolutely no difference whatsoever, or can mess up the car completely...

Long story short: Is it possible to remap an IS250? Yes it is. And as far as I'm concerned it's well worth it. Everyone has to make that decision for himself.

Peace out.

Linas.P · May 24, 2019

1 hour ago, Kaminet said:

Long story short: Is it possible to remap an IS250? Yes it is. And as far as I'm concerned it's well worth it. Everyone has to make that decision for himself.

Peace out.

There are things which are unlikely and there are things which are simply impossible.

For the things which are unlikely, I said and I will say it again - if there are no independent dyno before and after that is just empty statements.

For things which are impossible, don't waste your time - people who know thing or 2 about the cars won't change their minds.

Kaminet · May 24, 2019

9 minutes ago, Linas.P said:

There are things which are unlikely and there are things which are simply impossible.

For the things which are unlikely, I said and I will say it again - if there are no independent dyno before and after that is just empty statements.

For things which are impossible, don't waste your time - people who know thing or 2 about the cars won't change their minds.

And... you're supposedly the only one "knowing thing or 2 about cars"?! If you pay the dyno, I'll put the car on it. You have a stock spreadsheet figures all over the internet, compare to that. Btw I haven't stated any figures whatsoever... apart from a better 0-60 time. Just saying...

Has it ever occurred to you that apart from your opinion there might actually be something else?

And again - I'm not trying to change anyones mind, or convince anybody of doing it, as I can't guarantee same results/level of satisfaction... I wouldn't recommend anybody for the job, and I'm most definitely not trying to advertise anything. I know I was taking a risk, with potentially nothing to gain, and also potentially a fair bit to loose... For me, my gambling, has paid off... For someone else that could be a new ECU... or all sorts of issues... I don't know... Could be nothing at all, either way...

Linas.P · May 25, 2019

I would say I certainly know 1 or 2 things about IS250 - had 3 of them and done over 100k miles overall. If it would be as simple as dropping custom map in ECU for £200 do you think I wouldn't want to do it myself? Sadly I did my research and it indicates such thing is either impossible or benefits are negligible. If you want to prove me wrong - I need facts, evidence, proof.. not just say - "based on my feelings it perhaps maybe feels faster and louder".

Have you seen those conman claiming their cars are running on purified water? Or those selling magnets which you clamp on your fuel hose and save 30% of the fuel? Think about what is common between them and you (and those claiming to map IS250 ECUs). Just to be clear - I am not saying you lying, I am just saying I won't believe your claim before I see the proof. If you don't have the proof then it is pointless to say ECU mapping can be done. Maybe it can be done, but it cannot be proven - same thing here. Maybe aliens exist....

Comparing your after dyno with dyno from internet is pointless - for one your dyno is going to be at the wheels, wheres dyno from internet likely going to be at the crank. I am not even going to start explaining in detail why comparing power from different dynos is pointless. Dyno is the tool which helps in tuning the car - you dyno the car before, then make adjustments to the car (say map ECU) and then you dyno after to see if what you have done has worked. If you do not dyno, then you will never know if you changes made a difference or it is simply placebo effect. If you want to see how ECU mapping is done correctly, then there are plenty of video on the internet - one which springs to mind is https://www.youtube.com/user/mightycarmods/about only in last couple of weeks they have done several videos on "correctly tuning the car". They do baseline, adjust ECU in real time, do the run, adjust few more time and few more runs... and they get most power from them mapping they can get. Doing ECU off the car without dyno is pretty much wild guess, even in cases where the power could actually be made.

If your car doesn't make more power, then it won't go 0-60 faster. 0-60 is pretty much depends on weight/power - especially if we are talking about the same car here. If it is not lighter, nor more powerful where in your opinion the extra speed is coming from?

Opening DVVTi sooner not necessary makes more power even if oil pressure regulator can be used to some extent to boost oil pressure, if it would be that simple you would have a button in the car already saying "more power?". To some extent you could get more power in NA car by running it rich, but that doesn't add-up with your claim that you as well are saving fuel.

Now if you say - I have made custom cold air intake (remember IS250 air filter is not restrictive), replaced intake manifold, fitted ITBs, replaced exhaust manifolds and fitted new exhaust... and then adjusted ECU for my mods and now doing +20hp and +10Nm on dyno... I would say "Bravo... nice Job!".

Kaminet · May 25, 2019

Lines.P again, I'm not arguing benefits, pros and cons... I'm sharing my own personal experience from the doing of such a thing. And honestly, you don't know me very well... but I'm not a believer in fairy tales and pixie dust stories. I'm not only mechanically inclined but also can find my way around a spanner set...

Never been bothered to register on the forum, for a simple reason... Didnt needed much info as to how and what. But have been reading it for years... Not my first Lexus either, and only in the past 3 years I've done more than a 100k miles inside one. Maintained and repaired twice for the duration of my ownership exclusively by me.

I know the difference between crank hp and wheel hp, and what an ECU tune can do to a turbo/supercharged car... decided to catch the wild goose and see if it can do anything to a NA engine... And, no, not really, I'm not saving fuel, and I'm not claiming anything at all... Just my case, the car meets the official figures, so far...Sharing my experience so that people aren't discouraged that it is impossible and nothing can be done... isn't that the whole point of a forum? Even though I've driven it a fair mileage, it hasn't been too long since that had been done, so if anything changes, or it is consistent over a prolonged period of time - I will update my post.

The exhaust system is undergoing an upgrade during this summer, along side, potentially, a better fuel system... Still researching on that topic, as to whether is it worth it or not. And then will be mapped again, this time around properly... although I doubt that a rolling road session will change anything dramatically on a non-turbo engine.

Oh, and by the way... enough if that "cold air intake" on a NA car... You did mentioned a few time that you know a thing or two about cars... please... Pretty please, the only thing that makes any difference whatsoever is the amount of air. Can't claim cold air intake, if nothing is cooling the air that goes inside the engine... Right?

"Cold air intake" on a NA engine should be Insulation around the air piping and the filter box, so it can not be heated by the engine, simply replacing a pipe does f*ck all as to keep the air cooler and it had been proven to be a waste of time and money a million times over by a million independent people. The only thing that could and it is making a difference is the 360° air filters allowing slightly higher airflow. But again, the pipe they're attached to it is not doing anything but holding them, and potentially limiting the pros of having them fitted in the first place, by simply getting hotter faster and to higher temps than the factory rubberised, nylon (insulation, remember?) air intake.

Linas.P · May 25, 2019

I am not sure what are you trying to prove? It seems you really desperate for some reason?

You are right forums are for sharing and discussing experiences - that is what both of us doing here and now, however if you come with cold hard facts, nobody going to challenge you. In your case your claims are unsubstantiated and in some cases sound little bit fantastic (like sound of stock Lexus exhaust changing from ECU tune.. I mean c'mon really?!).

Yes we all know that ECU can be flashed on IS250 now, it was a while before that was available probably due to the factors in your, mine all all the posts around - it was locked and there were not enough interest to unlock it considering small potential such tuning have on NA car. So yes - it can be done...I am not arguing that.

The questions has always been what it could achieve and based on all accounts (including yours) - not much... That is why I want to know what you have achieved in a form of some substance, not just the feeling... which it seems you not even very sure about.

When it comes to cold air intakes, I didn't go into details of design, but you mostly correct... beyond cone air filter and insulation, cold air intake can be placed better than factory box, but that is story for different topic.

Linas.P · May 25, 2019

I have nothing to prove - it is established that flashing ECUs on NA engines are waste of time (and for good reason), you are claiming to have done it with some results, so you need to prove this somehow. Now once I have challenged you on this you turning out a bit weird, start shifting your story and making some sort of threats... is this not a sign on typical empty claims we see on such things and claimants always turning passive aggressive when cornered? You tell me...

If there is anything on substance then why try to hide it? I can give you benefit of doubt to some degree, but you pushing too many boundaries at the same time.. sorry..

I guess we can add this one to modern wisdom of engagement - "challenge the man on his improbable ECU mapping results and you will be met with fury!"