Battery Spec

[Martin F]

Could somebody please let me know the spec of the 12v Battery fitted as standard to the IS300h.

Ideally if you could take a picture and post that would be great. 

 

[Martin F]

Nobody? 

[Farqui]

Doesn't the spec come up at online auto factors after selecting your vehicle?

 

Any reason why you can't check what's under the hood? Or aren't you conviced yours is correct?

 

Or check the manual...

[PaulWhitt20]

Sorry, a bit random. Do you mean the 12v Battery hidden behind a trim panel under the puncture repair kit in the boot ?

 

 

Manual does not say and I can't get the part number without dismantling the car.

 

 

Does the Halfords web site list a suitable replacement?

 

 

[capese21]

It is a special type of Battery. There was a thread on it. I will have a search........................

[capese21]

 

A thread "Hybrid System Issue" has lots of discussion about the type of Battery. 

Quote

 

the battery number is S46B24L 20HR 49Ah CCA325A

and here is a link http://www.yuasa.co.uk/hj-s46b24r-628.html

absolutely amazed at the cost

 

I am sure my previous IS300 Fsport had a Panasonic Battery. In which case this is it.

http://www.panasonic.hk/english/products/living/car-battery/caos-hybrid-maintenance-free-car-battery-(jis-for-hybrid-vehicle)/n-s46b24lr-hv-(49ah).aspx

 

I hope this helps

 

Ed.

[steve2006]

Wow £250.00 for a car Battery!

Wouldn't like to think what Lexus would charge to supply and fit.

[capese21]

13 minutes ago, steve2006 said:

Wow £250.00 for a car battery!

It has to be a AGM & VRLA spec but imho a normal Bosch Battery would work just as well and they are £60 and what I would fit if out of warranty.

£250 is expensive but some sites have them for the bargain price of £180!!

Ed

 

[PaulWhitt20]

Looks like my Battery was supplied by a dealer in Honolulu. May explain the cost....

[Martin F]

Thanks guys.

My failing Battery was recently replaced for a Toyota one by the dealer and is a bit smaller than the Lexus one which was fitted before. However looking it's a 45Ah  - 325A Battery so is pretty close in spec to what has been posted above, also is AGM type.

I don't trust any dealer as far as I can throw them, so it's good to see they replaced it for a very close match (i believe the original Battery 28800-54020 is no longer available).

Anyway have just part-ex'd the car today so no longer my issue :D

[ganzoom]

The Battery is expensive because itll be a 'deep cycle' version to cope with additional demand from having to keep aux running when the combustion engine is off. Tesla had alot of issues early on when they used a standard 12V Battery which were been depleted after 12 months, they have since moved to a similar 12V Battery as in the Lexus/Toyota hybrids. 

[BrunoLeal]

Does the car really needs an AGM type Battery?

[reeac]

I'm intrigued to see that the Yuasa Battery says recommended charge rate 3 amps. Elsewhere I recall reading 4.5 amps. Either seems ridiculously low for in-vehicle charging - you'd need to drive a long way to recharge a depleted Battery.

[Britprius]

The batteries in the hybrids are AGM batteries, but you do not need to pay dealer prices to get AGM batteries. Exide do a direct replacement AGM Battery however the best AGM batteries to buy are mobility scooter batteries. These are available in the same dimensions as the OEM Battery, but have a higher capacity typically 55 or 60 amp hours for the OEM 45 amp hour size. The only downside is the terminals are usually bolt on type, but this is not a real problem. 
They are deep cycle batteries, very ruggedly built, and cost around £75,

John.

[ColinBarber]

On 9/13/2018 at 11:52 AM, reeac said:

I'm intrigued to see that the Yuasa battery says recommended charge rate 3 amps. Elsewhere I recall reading 4.5 amps. Either seems ridiculously low for in-vehicle charging - you'd need to drive a long way to recharge a depleted battery.

In normal use they shouldn't get that discharged for it to be a problem. 

[Britprius]

15 hours ago, ColinBarber said:

In normal use they shouldn't get that discharged for it to be a problem. 

The question is what is normal use? To some that is a daily drive covering 100 miles to others a 50 mile run once a month. It is generally the cars that get little use that suffer problems. Long stay parking at airports can be a problem to hybrids partially due to the small capacity Battery used in many of them.
With Hybrids the problem is there is no advance warning that the Battery is getting tired or just discharged from lack of use.
With a normal car you hear the engine struggle to turn over in the morning particularly in cold weather. A sure sign that the Battery needs charging or replacing.
With a hybrid nothing changes until the car will not boot into ready mode. A voltage display or simple green orange red display of Battery state on the MFD would be very useful instead of hiding the same information away on a hidden menu that is not in the handbook, and that most people do not know exists.

John

[NemesisUK]

25 minutes ago, Britprius said:

A voltage display or simple green orange red display of battery state on the MFD would be very useful instead of hiding the same information away on a hidden menu that is not in the handbook, and that most people do not know exists.

Would you be able to enlighten the ignorant (me!) as to how to display such information?

[Britprius]

2 minutes ago, NemesisUK said:

Would you be able to enlighten the ignorant (me!) as to how to display such information?

With the display used in earlier cars turning the lights on and off three times in quick succession in accessory mode takes you to the hidden display. I believe on later cars you hold the menu button down, and the operate the lights three times. Not having a later version car I cannot confirm this, but no doubt someone will or give the alternative procedure.

John  

[ColinBarber]

1 hour ago, Britprius said:

The question is what is normal use? To some that is a daily drive covering 100 miles to others a 50 mile run once a month. It is generally the cars that get little use that suffer problems. Long stay parking at airports can be a problem to hybrids partially due to the small capacity battery used in many of them.
With Hybrids the problem is there is no advance warning that the battery is getting tired or just discharged from lack of use.
With a normal car you hear the engine struggle to turn over in the morning particularly in cold weather. A sure sign that the battery needs charging or replacing.
With a hybrid nothing changes until the car will not boot into ready mode. A voltage display or simple green orange red display of battery state on the MFD would be very useful instead of hiding the same information away on a hidden menu that is not in the handbook, and that most people do not know exists.

John

You are twisting my answer to your own question. reeac asked why is there such a low charging current. There isn't a need to have a higher current charing because in normal use, and with a Battery in normal condition, very little is needed to recharge the Battery - unlike a conventional vehicle where a starter motor is pulling extremely high current from the 12v Battery.

 

[Britprius]

26 minutes ago, ColinBarber said:

You are twisting my answer to your own question. reeac asked why is there such a low charging current. There isn't a need to have a higher current charing because in normal use, and with a battery in normal condition, very little is needed to recharge the battery - unlike a conventional vehicle where a starter motor is pulling extremely high current from the 12v battery.

 

The reason the hybrid batteries in general are likely to have problems has little or nothing to with the current load at start up. This current is in the range of 60 amps. Or the assumed fact that the charging rate is low. The charging rate in fact can easily reach 80 amps and more with a well discharged battery on the hybrids this even though the Battery manufacture gives a low maximum charging current. This in it's self does not do the Battery any favors.
The Battery voltage is critical to the various computers for booting correctly. The batteries generally are of low capacity "typically 45 AH", and this reduces as the Battery ages. The Battery is also under constant load, and as many people have found if the vehicle is left for a period of only a few weeks there is a strong likelihood the car will not boot. 

It is the fact that in a normal car the starter motor pulls high currents, and shows signs of of poor output by turning the engine slowly that warns of problems. The Battery in these cars also has higher capacity, and is designed for high charge rates that the AGM Battery that is not.

If you doubt my above figures put a clamp type amp meter on the 12 Battery lead on a hybrid for confirmation.

John.

[ColinBarber]

1 hour ago, Britprius said:

The reason the hybrid batteries in general are likely to have problems has little or nothing to with the current load at start up. This current is in the range of 60 amps. Or the assumed fact that the charging rate is low. The charging rate in fact can easily reach 80 amps and more with a well discharged battery on the hybrids this even though the battery manufacture gives a low maximum charging current. This in it's self does not do the battery any favors.
The battery voltage is critical to the various computers for booting correctly. The batteries generally are of low capacity "typically 45 AH", and this reduces as the battery ages. The battery is also under constant load, and as many people have found if the vehicle is left for a period of only a few weeks there is a strong likelihood the car will not boot. 

It is the fact that in a normal car the starter motor pulls high currents, and shows signs of of poor output by turning the engine slowly that warns of problems. The battery in these cars also has higher capacity, and is designed for high charge rates that the AGM battery that is not.

If you doubt my above figures put a clamp type amp meter on the 12 battery lead on a hybrid for confirmation.

John.

Again, irreverent to the point I made.

[Britprius]

20 minutes ago, ColinBarber said:

Again, irreverent to the point I made.

The point you made if I read correctly is that. In normal use "not defined" they shouldn't get that discharged for it to be a problem. "but they do, and it is"

John.

[ColinBarber]

2 hours ago, Britprius said:

The point you made if I read correctly is that. In normal use "not defined" they shouldn't get that discharged for it to be a problem. "but they do, and it is"

John.

No they don't, not anything passed the 400h and certainly not the IS300h.

Normal use - I don't have Toyota's definition, and it doesn't really have to be defined, but it would be the same for hybrid and non-hybrid. They expect the Battery to last x number of days without use, and y as a minimum run time to recharge the Battery in normal use. Batteries and maximum charge current are therefore sized to achieve their targets.

Energy taken from the 12v Battery in a hybrid is much less than a conventional vehicle, because it isn't used to turn over the engine to start it, and therefore the charge rate can be much less for the same expected recharge time y. reeac's comment that you have to drive the vehicle much longer then a conventional vehicle to keep the Battery charged isn't the case.

I can leave an IS300h for weeks without a discharge issue. I can also just make tiny 1 miles journeys day after day without the Battery discharging.

 

When the Battery has lost some capacity due to age and/or abuse then yes you will have problems, but that isn't normal conditions that the vehicle was designed for. Under its designed conditions it operates fine.

[reeac]

I'm aware that any  starter motor takes very little energy in terms of amp hours but does the energy required for  starting an IS300h  come from the traction Battery albeit via a dc to dc converter or is it direct from the traction Battery?

[NemesisUK]

Direct from the traction Battery via MG1

The 12v Battery only energises the easy access systems and computers until the hybrid system is Ready.