Driving Tips for Europe

[Tel]

Italy--- Motorway Bliss/ T-Junction GrandPrix/He who dares Wins @ Islands.

Belgium----As above for Motorways however with ever increasing Tidal Flow Systems

Holland----As above (Belgium) BUT zero Lane discipline.

Germany--Same but slip roads are surprisingly short in length yet has carpet smooth A&B roads

France----2 Top Tips,  On Motorways, you are informed of their fixed cameras But their Police hide in Rest Areas & the old entrances to Farms that litter the edge of the AutoRoute.

Caught speeding & the monetary fine is instant, so too, if you do not have their mandatory Driving Kit & they will confiscate your car if speed is + 30 mph above their 81 mph limit.

Secondly, Autoroutes have a separate Rain Limit of 68 mph BUT I have so far ignored this @ my peril judging my speed against the French cars to a degree i.e. they tend to ignore it unless it is torrential whereas I stick to c.85 mph. but I am clearly @ risk.

Finally, late one evening in my ISF, cruising on the A4 between Venice & Milano @ 130 mph I was flashed by a Businessman in his Masser doing c.170 mph & ,in Tuscany, when I was struggling to find an underground carpark in Casole de Elsa. I went to the Gendarmerie for help.They got in their Patrol car & told me to follow them once they had admired my car.

Lights on, we toured the hilltop town going the wrong way down one street & through a red light straight to the carpark entrance ---the Locals thought I had been arrested as I had passed them @ the Bars twice before!

Tel 

[Rabbers]

Except for being forced to use the wrong side of the road whenever I am in the U.K., I  no longer notice much difference between

driving there or anywhere else in Europe, possibly because fear of speeding fines/penalties seems to have finally taken hold of most

people everywhere to the detriment of individualistic tendencies and/or the local behavioural characteristics that were part of 

a country's charm (or at least added a bit of interest to using its roads). 

[BigChange]

No wonder German cars have such a firm ride.  OK when you are on carpet smooth roads.  Not so good on too many UK roads.

And ref speeding in France, be careful between Calais and Autoroute Exit 3.  Especially when late for the ferry/tunnel.   

[BigChange]

Just now, BigChange said:

No wonder German cars have such a firm ride.  OK when you are on carpet smooth roads.  Not so good on too many UK roads.

And ref speeding in France, be careful between Calais and Autoroute Exit 3.  Especially when late for the ferry/tunnel.   

Sorry - that's on the A26.

[Steve44]

Having driven in Europe again with the Lexus a couple of years ago, For me:  

France -billiard table smooth roads with one of the most boring drives on the autoroute 

Belgium - oh my god my alloys! Some of the worst potholes I've ever seen on a motorway.

Italy - lane markings are suggestions, indicators optional items, but they do look good doing it!

Swiss - spectacular scenery, oh so disciplined apart from speed.

Germany - keep your wits about you, from in front ( trucks pulling out, ever changing speed limits), from behind ( someone is always faster than you) and from the side ( the polizei).

[DanD]

On ‎13‎/‎04‎/‎2017 at 8:50 AM, Tel said:

 

Germany--Same but slip roads are surprisingly short in length yet has carpet smooth A&B roads

 

Indeed and very scary when you enjoy the unrestricted speed and end up litterally standing on the brakes when you realise just how short the slip road is.

Also, have you noticed how the road markings disappear when it rains?!

[Rabbers]

This post is to be read in conjunction with the Hit a small deer type animal thread elsewhere on this Forum, and is intended to point out

the wildlife warning signs appearing in increasing numbers along many secondary roads all over Northern Italy.  They relate primarily to deer

and wild boar, the latter being especially prolific as far south as Tuscany and probably beyond, and it is advisable to take them seriously.

Wolves are also being found in greater numbers and at increasingly lower altitudes and are said to be less shy of people and cars than they

used to be.  Although no damage to cars will ensue, there have been alarming reports of entire areas being repopulated with adders thrown

by park rangers from helicopters, which sounds like wildlife conservation gone crazy.   If true, it is clearly not good news for anyone tempted

to spread a blanket and partake of a traditional picnic in a pleasant roadside meadow.

 

[Malc]

ITALY .....  take care driving between November and April ( some statutory dates I think ) certain roads, which you won't know which they are until you're on them, obligatory winter tyres or snow chains ............. and an instant fine in not complying.

FRANCE   ..........just read Sunday Times piece for obligatory Govt issued Emissions Disc data for your car ? when driving in Paris, Lyon and Grenoble .....  can be bought on line for @£4 but takes 6 weeks to deliver BUT the fine is up to £117 for non display 

Malc

[paulrnx]

Switzerland - just drive slowly and enjoy the good roads and fantastic views

Germany - max your car on one of the autobahns that are still unrestricted. Something everyone should do once in their life. Taking into account passengers, load, tyre pressures and traffic conditions of course.

Italy - drive safely and hope for the best. I've seen some dreadful driving in Italy.

France - never ever park next to a battered old French car. If you do you will come back to your own car full of door dings.

Austria - same as Switzerland really only less so

Or. Stay in the UK. I've just come back from a holiday in the north of Scotland and did 1600 miles over 8 days. Wonderful roads with barely any traffic and views to die for. And if/when Nicola Sturgeon gets her way Scotland will be another country too! 

[Rabbers]

1 hour ago, paulrnx said:

Italy - drive safely and hope for the best. I've seen some dreadful driving in Italy......

If you define bad drivers as ones who are habitually inconsiderate and rude, Italians are no worse than anybody else.  But if you mean that

a congenital disregard for the highway code often leads Italian drivers to rely on unproven abilities and dubious judgments in potentially

hazardous situations, I would not disagree.  In practice, those of them who would happily follow rules and regulations are often prevented

from doing so by a need to cope with the behaviour of far larger numbers who do not.  As a result, it is tempting, especially for foreign 

visitors, to tar them all with the same brush.  Not that this is a source of national anguish given that most Italians believe that all drivers

except themselves, and foreign ones in particular, are w*nk*rs.

 

Prejudices about the quality of a country's drivers are not always easy to explain.  Speaking for myself, I have witnessed fewer episodes

of truly idiotic and criminally reprehensible driving in Italy than elsewhere and have therefore come to believe that many northern European

drivers are less aware of thresholds of danger than their Italian counterparts, perhaps because the latter do not share a similar false sense

of security.  Less explicably, and strange though it may sound, I have never found much fault with French drivers but admit that the feeling

of panic that comes over me if I am forced to drive through Belgium is equalled only by the unease I always feel at the merest glimpse of

a Spanish numberplate.  More rationally and wholly logically, I make a point of giving Swiss drivers of powerful cars a wide berth on foreign

roads because, understandably, some of them might be tempted to take liberties that would get them arrested at home.  German drivers

inspire mixed feelings in me insofar as it is easy, as a visitor,  to confuse their apparent skill in driving fast with the local legality of doing so.

Having said this, their general discipline on all roads is admirable, though it may have something to do with a well-organised police force

with which it is best not to mess.

[paulrnx]

8 minutes ago, Rabbers said:

If you define bad drivers as ones who are habitually inconsiderate and rude, Italians are no worse than anybody else.  But if you mean that

a congenital disregard for the highway code often leads Italian drivers to rely on unproven abilities and dubious judgments in potentially

hazardous situations, I would not disagree.  In practice, those of them who would happily follow rules and regulations are often prevented

from doing so by a need to cope with the behaviour of far larger numbers who do not.  As a result, it is tempting, especially for foreign 

visitors, to tar them all with the same brush.  Not that this is a source of national anguish given that most Italians believe that all drivers

except themselves, and foreign ones in particular, are w*nk*rs.

 

Prejudices about the quality of a country's drivers are not always easy to explain.  Speaking for myself, I have witnessed fewer episodes

of truly idiotic and criminally reprehensible driving in Italy than elsewhere and have therefore come to believe that many northern European

drivers are less aware of thresholds of danger than their Italian counterparts, perhaps because the latter do not share a similar false sense

of security.  Less explicably, and strange though it may sound, I have never found much fault with French drivers but admit that the feeling

of panic that comes over me if I am forced to drive through Belgium is equalled only by the unease I always feel at the merest glimpse of

a Spanish numberplate.  More rationally and wholly logically, I make a point of giving Swiss drivers of powerful cars a wide berth on foreign

roads because, understandably, some of them might be tempted to take liberties that would get them arrested at home.  German drivers

inspire mixed feelings in me insofar as it is easy, as a visitor,  to confuse their apparent skill in driving fast with the local legality of doing so.

Having said this, their general discipline on all roads is admirable, though it may have something to do with a well-organised police force

with which it is best not to mess.

I've driven many times in Italy and witnessed some bad driving. I've driven extensively throughout Europe and Italy is the place that always made me feel uneasy. Due to not following traffic law and a lack of patience mostly it seemed

[Lexus Owners Club]

Here's some interesting articles for those venturing into Europe 

http://www.drivn.co.uk/reduce-stress-risk-from-your-european-road-trip/

http://www.drivn.co.uk/driving-in-a-french-city-then-you-may-need-a-critair-vignette/

[Malc]

Blimey, I've just extracted this from the above reference:

Vehicles that are too old to be given a vignette (including cars registered before 1997) are already banned from being driven in Paris between 8am on 8pm on weekdays.

Malc

2 hours ago, Lexus Owners Club said:

http://www.drivn.co.uk/driving-in-a-french-city-then-you-may-need-a-critair-vignette/

 

[DanD]

Interesting as my sister, who lives in Paris, assures me that this only applies to french registered cars.

Also, I seem to remember reading that wildlife (and also cattle) warning road signs are not just there to potentially avoid accidents, but also for legal reasons: should you hit an animal, you are unable to sue anyone - individuals or governmental organisations - for damage to your car or indeed yourself on the basis that signs were in place and you should have been more cautious. I suppose this works on a similar principle as signs and flashing lights at railway crossings.

Incidentally, some years ago, a friend of my parents hit a boar in northern France and spent some time in hospital as a result. Not only was his car a write off and he sustained a life changing injury, he was also sued for illegal destruction of protected game. This was on the basis that 1) signs were in place and he should have been more careful and 2) the police was able to prove he was driving way above the speed limit.

[paulrnx]

Boars certainly look like solid animals. Wow

[Rabbers]

I was in Lyon last month and was told by the hotel receptionist that only French-registered vehicles need the Crit'air vignette for the

Lyon/Villeurbanne area.  And, in fact, I did not see the vignette on any of the many foreign cars parked in one of the main city squares.

However, there was some confusion about the rules for Paris, which were supposed to be changing, but since I was not going there

I did not investigate further.  Since the vignette is cheap and will be valid for all cities joining the list in future, I think it's probably a

good idea for anyone who may be driving to France, even if they have no immediate plans to do so, to go online and buy it once and 

for all in order to avoid possible hassle.

 

[Rabbers]

17 hours ago, paulrnx said:

Boars certainly look like solid animals. Wow

Although I regularly drive through an area where they are reported to be a menace, I consider myself lucky to have seen a boar close-up

only once.  On a stretch of road surrounded by open fields I suddenly and unexpectedly came upon a long line of oncoming cars that were

starting to pick up speed again having apparently come to a stop.  I then spotted what I initially though was a dog trotting along ahead of

me in my own lane, and it was only when I got closer that I recognised the creature as a boar, and a hefty one at that, reddish-brown and

ugly with it.  Relating its bulk to that of a person, I guessed it probably weighed over 100kg, all of it muscle.  I stayed 20-30m behind the

brute for more than two km, leading a convoy of vehicles that gradually extended back as far as I could see, until the thing finally swerved 

away into a ditch and through a hedge.  I could have overtaken it several times before then (having contemplated a judicious flick into

S-mode, of course) but, being worried by the malevolent over-the-shoulder glances I occasionally got from it, I decided to take no risks.  

On reflection, I was glad that it did not decide, as I'm told might have happened, to lay down for a rest in the middle of the road, in which

case I, and probably none of the drivers behind me, would have known what to do except wait for it to get up again.

[Malc]

not really relevant I guess BUT was quite horrified at some of the near misses whilst being driven in Australia and errant kangaroos jumping across the roads !

Malc

[dutchie01]

For those of you driving through BELGIUM, news hot from the press!

All speed cameras on the highway will be REMOVED by the end of this year. Good news? well, not really as they will be replaced by so called traject controle covering ALL highways. all to be operational somewhere next year.

this is a zone on the highway of for instance 5 miles. when you enter an infrared camera makes a pic of your licenceplate and measures your speed, same when you leave at the other end, when over the limit you will receive some fanmail in the post 24 hrs later, no escape.

We have thesame in Holland but not on all highways ( yet) if you see traffic slowing down around you just copy, there is no escape possible! 

[Malc]

Average Speed cameras then, but in the UK one is given warning that they are there and usually not for 5 mile lengths.

Do the Holland and Belgium ones come with a warning that they are there ?

Malc

 

[dutchie01]

In holland only for the traject control but this is 1 sign some 400 mtrs before the start of it and very easy overlooked. If you overtake a truck you wont notice. Speedcameras no sign and then of course mobile policecameras only on highways and in cities. belgium no idea as it will be totally new. The amount of money this generates is obsceen and the debate is roadsafety or hidden tax income.

another hot topic in FRANCE beware please as the police have stopped with mobile laser and radar this has been PRIVATISED to private companies! Bountyhunters in europe.

[Malc]

seems as though we'll just have to abide by the rules and speed limits all of the time !

Malc

[dutchie01]

Unfortunately so. I am old enough to remember the time 15 years ago when you could fly through europe with 170km/h.. No radars, no police and much less traffic.

Those were the days.

[Rabbers]

5 hours ago, dutchie01 said:

.... Those were the days.

Indeed they were.

 

"Average Speed" cameras, locally known as "Tutor" systems,  have been operational here in Italy since 2005 and now cover more than

one third of the total motorway network of approx.7000km.  Usually they cover individual stretches of 10km but can extend up to 25km.

Their number is increasing all the time, and along with that of fixed-speed cameras, the list of locations is updated every Monday and

made available on dedicated phone apps.  Advance warnings of their presence are by means of overhead signs across all lanes and, as

such, they are not easily missed.  Unlike many or most cameras installed by local municipalities on normal roads that masquerade as

safety measures but are really designed to ambush motorists for their cash, the "Tutors" have been very effective in reducing the number

of speed-related accidents wherever they have been installed.  Fatality rates, in particular, have been more than halved.  Not that the

income they generate is negligible, it being said that some of the original installations paid for themselves in less than two years.

 

Historically, the decision of owners of foreign-registered cars to pay speeding fines emanating from Italy and notified to them by local debt

collection agencies was largely a question of personal conscience or a willingness to put up with the irritation of increasingly aggressive

but legally dubious demands for payment.  As far as I am aware this may still be the case in most countries including the U.K., but I have

heard that the appointment of private debt collection agencies by the Italian Polizia Stradale (the national Road Police), which administers

the "Tutor" network, is nowadays to be regarded as only a first step pending possible further more formal legal action regardless of

country.  The only certainty is that whereas owners of Italian-registered vehicles must be notified of infractions within 90 days for the

related penalties not to be invalidated, this period is extended to 360 days for foreign ones.  So, if you think you may have been caught

speeding on camera in Italy but have heard nothing one year later, you probably never will, and in the event that you should, feel free to

tear the letter up.